Regarding Steam and the article "Microsoft kills game ownership and expects us to smile" Page 3

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  • PenguinJim 7 Jun 2013 15:15:03 5,832 posts
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    Maybe disc sales are higher in the EU so publishers are more resistant to lowering their download prices there to avoid angering retailers. Or maybe disc sales are lower, resulting in the same effect. I have no idea what I'm saying.

    But it will be a different ecosystem when it's not avoiding competing with itself.

    Yup. I've definitely lost it.
  • Deleted user 7 June 2013 15:17:32
    Yeah. Current games sell at fifty quid because people buy them at fifty quid, and ultimately they're all in the business of making money, not altruistically making their games as cheap as possible. If the prices are going to drop, it's going to be because of market forces like indie/arcade games outselling $200m budget AAA pew pew games.

    And let's face facts, if things become cheap, all the vocal minority going on about "their rights" will shut up about not being able to trade second-hand stuff, because it ultimately comes down to a question of cash, not consumer rights.

    tl;dr: People are cheap.
  • Bremenacht 7 Jun 2013 15:35:22 17,783 posts
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    Nothing wrong with that. No-one gets sniffy about sustainable eco-farming when buying a McCheeseburger.

    People would get sniffy about going to an expensive restaurant and being served a turd.
  • Ror1984 7 Jun 2013 15:38:11 3,067 posts
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    Max Payne 3 was a fiver here in the UK (on XBL) recently too. I bought it. There were a number of titles available for around five quid.

    FFXIV: ARR - Khroma Midgard, Odin.

  • kentmonkey 7 Jun 2013 15:39:02 20,579 posts
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    Oh shut up. Stop making my point pointless.
  • TheSaint 7 Jun 2013 15:39:19 14,301 posts
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    Not to mention that Ni no Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch has been cheaper on PSN then it has ever been at retail.
  • Ror1984 7 Jun 2013 15:42:51 3,067 posts
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    Also, last June I got Kameo on XBL for £3.99. I haven't even touched it yet.

    FFXIV: ARR - Khroma Midgard, Odin.

  • Waffleaber 7 Jun 2013 15:48:16 394 posts
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    Ror1984 wrote:
    Also, last June I got Kameo on XBL for £3.99. I haven't even touched it yet.
    I bought Max Payne in the sale for a fiver too and haven't touched it. If that's not a sign the service is getting more like Steam I don't know what is.
  • PenguinJim 7 Jun 2013 15:49:20 5,832 posts
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    I was just going to post something similar, but without the Steam comparison. :D I need the fucking box to remind me to fucking play it!
  • andytheadequate 7 Jun 2013 15:51:01 8,116 posts
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    PenguinJim wrote:
    andytheadequate wrote:
    You don't have to be always online to play on steam, do you? Games are also a lot cheaper than they ever will be on a console.
    Max Payne 3 was $5 on Games on Demand a couple of months ago - cheaper than it's ever been on Steam, even in the months since. Assassin's Creed 3 was also given away for free on GoD - I don't think that Steam will be matching that any time soon. ;)
    A fire sale at the end of the consoles life, just after the announcement that GoD games wouldn't be backwards compatible..
  • Moot_Point 7 Jun 2013 15:52:12 3,983 posts
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    Have more details of the steambox been revealed?

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    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • sanctusmortis 7 Jun 2013 15:54:25 9,628 posts
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    According to SteamDB:

    Games owned: 213
    Value: £1952.50
    Games still unplayed: 142 (67%)
    Hours played, total: 374.9
  • Bremenacht 7 Jun 2013 16:00:07 17,783 posts
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    Headline-grabbing sale items on XBL or PSN don't make those services comparable with the likes of Steam though, where 'bargains' are routine.
  • Bremenacht 7 Jun 2013 16:00:50 17,783 posts
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    Moot_Point wrote:
    Have more details of the steambox been revealed?
    Steambox thread hasn't been seen for a while.
  • Moot_Point 7 Jun 2013 16:02:39 3,983 posts
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    sanctusmortis wrote:
    Games owned: 213

    Games still unplayed: 142 (67%)
    WTF?

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    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • sanctusmortis 7 Jun 2013 16:04:52 9,628 posts
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    It counts betas, of which I have several. Plus all of the Double Fine prototypes, which I've not touched. And games I added having already played them. Plus, I own a lot of games from sales that I already played on 360 I've not gone back to.Also, the GTA games appear twice as the Mac versions count as different games, and I don't have a Mac (it was a sale bundle).

    The link shows you what is and isn't played, and is truly a Pile Of Shame.

    Edited by sanctusmortis at 16:06:29 07-06-2013
  • TheSaint 7 Jun 2013 16:04:55 14,301 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    Headline-grabbing sale items on XBL or PSN don't make those services comparable with the likes of Steam though, where 'bargains' are routine.
    Routine = 3 sales a year?
  • Moot_Point 7 Jun 2013 16:06:46 3,983 posts
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    @sanctusmortis The shame is yours to shoulder I s'pose.

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    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • Deleted user 7 June 2013 16:07:53
    TheSaint wrote:
    Bremenacht wrote:
    Headline-grabbing sale items on XBL or PSN don't make those services comparable with the likes of Steam though, where 'bargains' are routine.
    Routine = 3 sales a year?
    Dunno about XBL at the moment but PSN seems to constantly have a flux of games going in and out of the "value bin"
  • nickthegun 7 Jun 2013 16:08:03 59,450 posts
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    Can a mod please lock this thread? Between this and the other twenty identical next gen threads, saying exactly the same thing, my senile old mind is struggling to cope.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • sanctusmortis 7 Jun 2013 16:09:18 9,628 posts
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    Moot_Point wrote:
    @sanctusmortis The shame is yours to shoulder I s'pose.
    It's about to get worse - Serious Sam collection on Humble weekly sale...
  • PenguinJim 7 Jun 2013 16:10:36 5,832 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    Headline-grabbing sale items on XBL or PSN don't make those services comparable with the likes of Steam though, where 'bargains' are routine.
    True, but just as we usually don't get the best Steam bargains from the Steam store, it's been possible to pick up Games on Demand from alternate suppliers. I got Alan Wake for US$9 back in February 2011, for example, and Halo Reach, Alan Wake, Gears of War 2, Fable 2, Crysis 2 and even Skyrim have routinely been quite cheap.

    The console download market is playing catch-up, as usual (hey, consoles barely had online gaming just eight years ago!), but as the services mature, we can expect to see new people finding new ways to take advantage of us. The important thing is to find ways to take advantage of their ways of taking advantage of us. Like those 1200MSP we were all getting last week for $5, for example. :p How much is a "$5" GoD game then? (It's significantly less than $2, in case you don't know the spacebucks system)
  • RobTheBuilder 7 Jun 2013 16:11:56 6,521 posts
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    @sanctusmortis I bought the Serious Sam series in a Steam sale and after a few hours realised they were pretty terrible.
  • Deleted user 7 June 2013 16:13:23
    The comparison's to Steam might actually hold if it wasn't for the fact that MS are about to abandon 7(?) odd years of downloadable games with this new console. I buy a gameon Steam, I can play it on whatever PC I buy for the foreseeable. MS have just shown that to not be the case. If a company wants you to adopt a new all in, restricted resale/trade, model for buying games it might do them some favours if they weren't at the exact same time saying fuck you to all the downloadable and retail games you bought with your last MS system. And yes, this will also apply to Sony if they implement the same system.
  • sanctusmortis 7 Jun 2013 16:15:48 9,628 posts
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    RobTheBuilder wrote:
    @sanctusmortis I bought the Serious Sam series in a Steam sale and after a few hours realised they were pretty terrible.
    I play them co-op with an obsessed friend. $5 is nothing for the fun that brings.
  • FogHeart 7 Jun 2013 16:16:49 944 posts
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    Beneath 'the principal of the thing' it seems that there genuinely is a way of achieving the goals that MS want while keeping the players content. After all, Valve are doing it. If the scheme that MS have planned were replaced by one which functions much as Steam does, it would still be worse than what we have on the 360. With Steam, you can't take a disc to a friend's home and have a multiplayer session, you can't cadge a game off him that he's not using, and so on. And yet Steam players are, as I said,content. It's as if there is a minimum set of compensations you need to the DRM scheme and MS hasn't met them but Steam has.

    Or possibly expectations for PC gaming are somehow lower. Only relatively recently has PC gaming become something two or more people can do in front of the TV, rather than a solo player at a desk. Maybe gaming together, lending and swapping just aren't quite part of PC gaming culture as they are a part of console culture.

    Edited by FogHeart at 16:18:05 07-06-2013
  • Deleted user 7 June 2013 16:17:27
    @mowgli But your ability to play "Steam" games is more luck than planning. It just so happens that the underlying platform (Windows) is still compatible with games that were coded for versions 18 years older (just about) but Valve/Steam won't (and couldn't ever) guarantee that things will work with every forthcoming version of Windows.
  • Moot_Point 7 Jun 2013 16:17:45 3,983 posts
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    RobTheBuilder wrote:
    @sanctusmortis I bought the Serious Sam series in a Steam sale and after a few hours realised they were pretty terrible.
    Why do you think they (mostly) have 80% off. Duh!

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    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • andytheadequate 7 Jun 2013 16:18:10 8,116 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    Bremenacht wrote:
    Headline-grabbing sale items on XBL or PSN don't make those services comparable with the likes of Steam though, where 'bargains' are routine.
    Routine = 3 sales a year?
    There are generally around 5-10 games on sale a week, plus 3 massive sales a year, plus a few other fairly good sales thrown in between them. Puts everyone else to shame really.
  • Deleted user 7 June 2013 16:18:46
    Jeff Gersmann's just posted his view:

    Steam evolved out of CD keys and master servers for games like Quake, which only really existed to keep players from sharing their shooters around and playing online without buying multiple copies. Cracked servers sprung up to handle people who wanted to live outside the law. So by the time Steam came around, yeah, online checks on install and other weird protection measures were the norm.

    The Xbox One feels more and more like something thatís being built in this weird transition time. It has the ability to do television, but it can also handle digital streaming and purchasing for movies and TV shows, since TV will eventually fade away. Itíll accept discs, but it treats those discs like digital purchases and attempts to prevent people from passing those purchases around freely, because itís preparing people for a world with no discs.

    Digital purchasing has evolved quite a bit over the years. The Kindle was pretty draconian, in its own way. After all, passing a book to someone else is easy and a grand tradition for some. Now, Amazon has attempted to find ways to support the lending of digital books and that product and process has evolved. Steam and digital game purchases have gotten far tighter since the days of shareware and other early downloadable PC products. Itís a pretty seamless process these days, and I play far more PC games than I used to.

    The Xbox One is this wishy-washy device thatís caught in the middle by trying to please everyone. But the way theyíre talking about its different ďfeaturesĒ makes it sound pleasing to absolutely no one. Imagine how much different this thing would be perceived if it didnít have a disc drive on it at all. If it was digital-only, people might understand why it works the way it will. Theyíd probably compare it to their phone, where apps are just about as restrictive, if not moreso.

    I do think parts of this conversation change if sales and other digital pricing tactics are employed in the Xbox One store. If publishers can play around with their own pricing, you could see the sorts of sales that made people really start worshiping at the altar of Steam. But theyíre not talking about that right now. So instead the whole thing feels like a mess. Itís another sign that as it becomes more and more mainstream, digital convenience starts to come at a very high price.
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