Eternal Darkness Spiritual Successor

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  • Deleted user 3 May 2013 19:11:58
    The creators of the Eternal Darkness game are trying to make a spiritual successor.

    Edited by Rec at 19:12:52 03-05-2013
  • Tekkirai 3 May 2013 20:01:30 104 posts
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    I know Eternal Darkness is well loved, but don't give these guys your money, they're utterly untrustworthy.
  • RedSparrows 3 May 2013 22:17:49 20,765 posts
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    Post deleted
  • RedSparrows 3 May 2013 22:17:50 20,765 posts
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    Not sure that's entirely the case for the consumer, but they have been mongs re xmen et al.

    Cue usual Dyack bollocks.

    TOO HUMAN 4 EVA
  • Triggerhappytel 3 May 2013 23:31:06 2,664 posts
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    Sounds like an interesting idea, but I'm not sure I'd trust Dyack with my money; there have been some right dodgy stories about him in the past. Also, does twelve episodes seem excessive to anyone else? I'd say half that would be more suited for an episodic format.
  • Telepathic.Geometry 4 May 2013 03:51:31 11,132 posts
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    It's sad to say, but I just don't trust Dyack. Too much shady shit in his past. If someone else decided to do it, that would be cool but, Dyack? Nope.

    || PSN Barrysama || NNID Barrysama ||

  • ubergine 4 May 2013 04:09:23 1,278 posts
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    I'm guessing the rights to Eternal Darkness are tied somewhere between Nintendo's dungeon of grasped IP and Dyack's bankruptcy and estrangement from reality.

    Will wait for reviews.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ubergine

  • JinTypeNoir 4 May 2013 08:45:19 4,365 posts
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    Eternal Darkness was an admirable attempt at a lot of things, but Dyack is such a twat. I remember way back when he was producing Twin Snakes and he said something to the effect that Miyamoto was like Socrates and Kojima like Plato, and I just had this overwhelming urge to smack the guy. He's kind of the ultimate example of an ultranerd who can't be professional and just happened to get noticed.

    When you look back and play the original Legacy of Kain, you realize a lot of that game is "DARK VAMPIRE POWERZ ARE CUL!!" nerd fantasy materialized, but somehow back then, Dyack's team overcame that and made an overall compelling game. Honestly, I think that is the only really solid and remarkable game Dyack's ever made.

    You would get my support for a project like this if you promised not to let Denis Dyack anywhere near it. I think that would show far better judgement.
  • YenRug 6 May 2013 23:51:24 1,775 posts
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    RedSparrows wrote:
    Not sure that's entirely the case for the consumer, but they have been mongs re xmen et al.

    Cue usual Dyack bollocks.

    TOO HUMAN 4 EVA
    Bringing up "X-Men: Destiny" in this instance may not be the best argument, if rumours are to be believed; apparently, much like has been rumoured about Gearbox with Aliens, Dyack was meant to be using the funding for X-Men to carry out preliminary development on an ED sequel.

    Anyway, there's a new video up on IGN for this:

    http://uk.ign.com/videos/2013/05/06/9-minutes-of-shadow-of-the-eternals
  • Sid-Nice 7 May 2013 00:26:23 15,811 posts
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    Denis Dyack looks desperate and skint; I knew this was a piss take with CryEngine 3 running on the Wii U.

    NNID Sid-Nice

  • spamdangled 7 May 2013 01:14:16 27,197 posts
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    He wants 1.5 million usd just for the first "episode", with a vague promise that future eps would cost "considerably less" - does this mean he's planning on kickstarting every single one?

    Steer well clear, imo. Especially after what came out in light of XMD and the epic trial.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • JinTypeNoir 7 May 2013 08:24:39 4,365 posts
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    From the Terms of Use:

    Payments made to Precursor Games, Inc. to back this project are strictly donations and are not consideration for any service or product. Donations will be used by Precursor Games, Inc. for various aspects of the development and production of Shadow of the Eternals (the “Game”) at their sole discretion. Precursor Games will accept donations immediately upon receipt; there is no minimum aggregate goal for funding. A donation cannot be cancelled or returned once it has been completed, whether or not Precursor Games completes the Game or fulfils the specified reward.
  • AcidSnake 7 May 2013 08:38:24 7,145 posts
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    Seems legit...

    Seriously, with Nintendo owning the Sanity system wouldn't we at this point be looking at a generic Lovecraft game?
    Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I see it less as "Eternal Darkness spiritual successor" and more as "Denis Dyack presents a generic Lovecraft game of 2 hours long for just one and a half million"...

    AcidSnake - He can't see your sig, avatar, images or vids and talks about himself in the third person because he's proper old-skool...UID 24017

  • spamdangled 7 May 2013 08:39:57 27,197 posts
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    Donations will be used by Precursor Games, Inc. for various aspects of the development and production of Shadow of the Eternals (the “Game”) at their sole discretion.
    So basically they're not even promising that your money will be used to actually make the game.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • mikew1985 7 May 2013 09:17:40 12,119 posts
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    He's a dodgy ol so and so.
  • RedSparrows 7 May 2013 11:33:07 20,765 posts
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    Out of interest, what are the similar T&Cs like on other crowdfund projects?
  • RedSparrows 7 May 2013 11:33:36 20,765 posts
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    AcidSnake wrote:
    Seems legit...

    Seriously, with Nintendo owning the Sanity system wouldn't we at this point be looking at a generic Lovecraft game?
    Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I see it less as "Eternal Darkness spiritual successor" and more as "Denis Dyack presents a generic Lovecraft game of 2 hours long for just one and a half million"...
    The sanity system is hardly so unique as to be impossible to adapt.
  • mikew1985 7 May 2013 11:36:55 12,119 posts
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    @RedSparrows

    Well if you go through kickstarter - you cannot stipulate that you will keep the money even if you don't reach your goal. In those cases it has to be refunded.

    I'm sure they have some similar T&C's but these definitely seem a bit more suspect. It's slightly strange that they aren't presenting this on one of the major crowdsourcing websites.

    Maybe I'm paranoid but I know I wouldn't give them a cent of my money. They've brazenly fucked over actual investors as SK in the past, not sure why they wouldn't do the same to a bunch of people to whom they don't have to make themselves accountable.

    Edited by mikew1985 at 11:37:19 07-05-2013
  • AcidSnake 7 May 2013 11:56:21 7,145 posts
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    @RedSparrows:
    It is pretty well defined actually IMO, the more insane your character gets the more the game toys with you by breaking the 4th wall and such...Simply renaming it a "tension meter" for instance wouldn't be enough to differentiate it I think?

    I don't know how Dyack's relationship with Nintendo is nowadays but that's something their lawyers could grab onto quite easily I suspect...

    AcidSnake - He can't see your sig, avatar, images or vids and talks about himself in the third person because he's proper old-skool...UID 24017

  • spamdangled 7 May 2013 13:08:39 27,197 posts
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    Two more nuggets of "joy" from the Terms of Use:

    Precursor Games EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR USE OR PURPOSE
    Precursor Games shall not be responsible for any harm that you or any person may suffer as the result of data loss or security breach with respect to information you transmitted to the site.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • Ignatius_Cheese Moderator 7 May 2013 13:29:06 10,785 posts
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    Funny, seeing as you're not allowed under UK law to disclaim such rights :)

    Still, I've bumped money his way. What!? So I'm a gullible idiot! :)
  • spamdangled 7 May 2013 14:14:58 27,197 posts
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    If he's based in, and operating out of, the US though, does the UK trading laws still apply? Or would it not be local laws?

    Anyway, glad to see this getting some scrutiny. Bertie has said Jeffrey is investigating the issue further, so hopefully there'll be something on the front page soon about all of the concerns.

    Looking forward to seeing Dyack's explanation (if any).

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • ZuluHero 7 May 2013 14:30:47 3,668 posts
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    RedSparrows wrote:
    Out of interest, what are the similar T&Cs like on other crowdfund projects?
    http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

    Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.
    Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
    but...

    Kickstarter is not liable for any damages or loss incurred related to rewards or any other use of the Service. Kickstarter is under no obligation to become involved in disputes between any Users, or between Users and any third party arising in connection with the use of the Service. This includes, but is not limited to, delivery of goods and services, and any other terms, conditions... yadda yadda yadda
  • RedSparrows 7 May 2013 15:55:56 20,765 posts
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    AcidSnake wrote:
    @RedSparrows:
    It is pretty well defined actually IMO, the more insane your character gets the more the game toys with you by breaking the 4th wall and such...Simply renaming it a "tension meter" for instance wouldn't be enough to differentiate it I think?

    I don't know how Dyack's relationship with Nintendo is nowadays but that's something their lawyers could grab onto quite easily I suspect...
    Yes. If they just renamed it, of course it'd be blatant. But suggesting all fourth-wall breaking mechanics, thematically tied to the idea of insanity or degredation of the PC, is impossible to do without ripping off ED isn't true. I am sure there's a way of doing something similar.

    FWIW, all bollocks aside, I have generally really enjoyed SK's games. I'm not sure why JTN takes issue with Kain being about vampire nerdwank, when most games are about similar - see the ridiculous over-abundance of zombie titles and how 'cool' zombies are, etc. ED, TS, TH - I really liked all three.

    Away from the games, however, SK or PG or whatever they are now, seem hell-bent on destroying themselves. I wonder how they're going even now?
  • RedSparrows 7 May 2013 15:58:29 20,765 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    Two more nuggets of "joy" from the Terms of Use:

    Precursor Games EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR USE OR PURPOSE
    Precursor Games shall not be responsible for any harm that you or any person may suffer as the result of data loss or security breach with respect to information you transmitted to the site.
    Again, how different are these terms to other similar operations?

    I know I'm looking like I'm defending DD and co, which I don't really want to do. But nor am I interested in reading how evil they are when they might be doing similar to other, lovely, heart-warming, honest developers or companies.

    The second one, for instance: surely that's common on pretty much ANY website?

    Kickstarter seems like a much better way of doing things, given the return of money.
  • Deleted user 7 May 2013 16:00:28
    These are all pretty standard T&Cs for Kickstarter stuff. You give them money, they use it for something, that's about it. Kickstarter isn't for pre-ordering or investing.
  • AcidSnake 7 May 2013 16:06:13 7,145 posts
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    @RedSparrows:
    Hmmm, we would have to see the patent for it...It's surely nothing as simple as "a green bar indicating the character's mental status", the whole idea was it impacting the game in various ways...
    Could be wrong of course...

    And I honestly think it's moot anyway as there's nowhere near enough people that enjoyed ED enough to make a one and a half million kickstarter work, and surely DD himself hasn't gathered any fans in the past few years...

    AcidSnake - He can't see your sig, avatar, images or vids and talks about himself in the third person because he's proper old-skool...UID 24017

  • YenRug 7 May 2013 16:49:05 1,775 posts
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    To answer some of the questions, despite people apparently going so far as to quote parts of the site (i.e. quote the whole section, not just the part that comes across as being bad):

    http://www.precursorgames.com/shadowoftheeternals/faq/


    Why no Kickstarter Campaign? *UPDATED*?
    We would love to do a Kickstarter, but currently Kickstarter is only open to companies that have a US or UK presence. We are actively working with Kickstarter to make this option a reality.

    What happens if you do not reach your goal *UPDATED*?
    Our financial goal is a flexible one. All contributions will go directly towards the development of this game and making it a reality. We are committed to making this game, however, if it becomes apparent that we cannot raise enough to develop this project then we will refund all pledges.
    http://www.precursorgames.com/shadowoftheeternals/campaign/terms-of-use/


    3. No Obligation. Precursor Games will use its commercially reasonable efforts to develop and produce the Game, and will apply all donations to the development and production of the Game and the other rewards. However, circumstances outside of Precursor Games’ control may make it impossible for Precursor Games to complete production of the Game or other rewards. Precursor Games is committed to completing Shadow of the Eternals. However, in the event that Precursor Games cannot raise enough money to develop this project, all donations will refunded to their respective contributors.
    My bolding.

    With regard to Sanity effects, I believe there was a patent for it, but not sure who owns it, offhand. With regard to Nintendo, as far as I know, their ownership extends to the "Eternal Darkness" brand/license, hence this being a "spiritual" sucessor even though Wii U is one of the main target systems.

    ETA: Checked, it is NoA who own the patent:

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6935954.PN.&OS=PN/6935954&RS=PN/6935954

    Edited by YenRug at 16:55:57 07-05-2013
  • spamdangled 7 May 2013 17:06:09 27,197 posts
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    I'm just very suspicious of the whole thing. If he plans to refund the money if they don't hit their goal, why take it immediately?

    And to be fair, it's not like Dyack hasn't got a reputation for misleading, overpromising, under-delivering and lying. If it turns out to all be legit and fine, then fair enough. But given his history I won't be going near this with a ten foot pole, no matter how enticing a successor to ED is.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • YenRug 7 May 2013 17:16:38 1,775 posts
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    I know Paypal can do subscriptions, but not sure if it can do "held" payments properly, i.e. puts a "hold" on reserved funds on whatever cards/accounts you have set-up, or if there are restrictions on who can request "held" payments (on Precursor's side). Might just be easier to take the money in and then do mass refunds, if it fails, rather than incur charges in doing "holds".
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