The Evil WIthin Page 2

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  • Widge Moderator 20 Apr 2013 14:30:40 13,272 posts
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    Wasn't a gun a staple of Resident Evil from the off?

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    www.unpaused.co.uk - electronic noise adjective salad

  • JinTypeNoir 22 Apr 2013 04:48:31 4,365 posts
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    Of course it was. If you remove all the horror trappings and the term survival horror from the game, change the zombies to say fantasy skeletons and give the hero a bow and arrow with everything else still the same, Resident Evil would have been classified as an action adventure game with a heavy emphasis on the action as its appeal.

    Said action would have been notable because prior to Resident Evil games had not been that strict or hard in terms of limiting ammunition, chances to save or getting yourself stuck in situations with no health or ammunition. That's where the survival aspect comes in.

    It would be highly unusual and strange to claim that the appeal of Resident Evil was in its puzzles.

    However, when you add in the horror elements, suddenly atmosphere becomes a big part of the appeal. Exploration, backtracking and puzzle solving slow down the pace of the game, allowing dread to build up.

    Last, but not least, because Capcom likes to label all of their games with genres like monster hunting action or courtroom battle, so Resident Evil was called survival horror. Unlike most of their creations, in terms of etymology, this one stuck.

    Thus, you have plenty of people who come up with what they think survival horror should be, point to the originator of the term as the only valid definition of what it could be and proceed to shit on a new generation of horror games because of that. A defining trait about these types of people is that they usually can't argue well.

    Resident Evil 4, the game changer, and Resident Evil have around the same ratio of exploration and puzzle-solving to action. This is not debatable. It can be quantified with numbers if you really want to go that far. The way they manage to implement what people call survival horror -- yet what can actually just be called an action adventure in terms of pure game mechanics -- changed.

    Change is okay. Change is good. Let us not forever be troglodytes who cannot accept change because we hold incorrect assumptions about what games 20 years ago were all about. Silent Hill and Clock Tower were always the more cerebral type of horror games, Resident Evil (and stuff like Dino Crisis) was always shlockier and more action-packed. Which you found scarier is entirely subjective. There is no objective way to measure which was scarier. Personally I found Resident Evil scarier precisely because of all the action and gun play in it.

    Edited by JinTypeNoir at 04:49:51 22-04-2013
  • King_Edward 22 Apr 2013 06:12:07 11,454 posts
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    JinTypeNoir wrote:

    Resident Evil 4, the game changer, and Resident Evil have around the same ratio of exploration and puzzle-solving to action. This is not debatable. It can be quantified with numbers if you really want to go that far.
    No. They don't. Please, prove it with numbers though.
  • JinTypeNoir 22 Apr 2013 06:38:24 4,365 posts
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    Yes, it does.

    I'm not going to, because I'm not that invested in the argument. When I said "if you want to go that far," I meant it not in the case of "I'll do it, should you ask me," but if somebody went through the trouble of doing it, they would find that out.

    If you are asking me how I came to this conclusion it is because I have played through the original so many times, I can remember all the steps from memory and there was a time in my life where the people I lived with played Resident Evil 4 all the way through over and over again nearly every day and I remember one time comparing the pacing of the two games while I sat and watched and being astonished how close the ratio was.

    But the gist of it is this: It is too difficult to compare how much time should be considered the average time to win Resident Evil and Resident Evil 4, but Resident Evil 4 is much longer than Resident Evil. Everyone can agree on that. In order to win both games though, if you were to compare the pacing of sequences from start to finish, its the same basic ratio. However, both combat sequences and environments are larger in Resident Evil 4 so both exploration/puzzle-solving and combat take longer. 4 has a lot more puzzles and exploration sequences than the original, not just combat. What you remember being the emphasis is purely subjective.
  • King_Edward 22 Apr 2013 07:43:11 11,454 posts
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    I've played both plenty, and recently too, and you're wrong. There's more combat, and the pacing and structure are different. RE4 didn't cut out puzzles, but it did simplify them. No storage box or ink ribbons, and key items being kept outside of the attache case being obvious examples. There were less locked doors, and the keys for the ones that were locked were always found close by.

    If you play 1, 2, 3, then 4 in order you can see the series changing into something more action heavy and linear as it goes along. Code Veronica, for whatever reason doesn't fit, but it was rubbish, so who cares.†

    Edited by King_Edward at 07:52:55 22-04-2013
  • JinTypeNoir 22 Apr 2013 08:14:57 4,365 posts
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    Listen a minute to what you're saying and I'm saying. I said the ratio of puzzles/exploration to combat is the same. You're saying that the puzzles in RE4 are simpler and that it does not have key items in the attache case, a storage box or ink ribbons to support that the ratio is different. That Resident Evil 4 does not treat its save system the same, and does not handle items the same as Resident Evil is evidence for that.

    You also claim that it is more linear and became so after the first game, except for Code Veronica, which doesn't count because you don't like it. That the pacing and structure are different is a no duh claim. That Resident Evil 4 had more puzzles is true. That they were easier feels true, but is hard to say. Getting keys to get through doors was perhaps a puzzle and exploration mechanic fused together in the old games. In 4, you do an awful lot more exploring of larger and more intricate spaces to move the plot forward. There are not as many locked doors because Shinji Mikami wanted to do something different. Obviously, they are not the same game. That's okay. You can still have a game with the same ratio of mechanics that uses entirely different mechanics to get to that ratio.

    Would you like to explain to me how changing how the mechanics work changes the ratio of how much exploration and puzzle solving there is compared to combat? And would you like to give a real assessment of how much action there was compared to puzzle solving in 2 and 3, other than "it got more linear because I say so, except for Code Veronica, which doesn't count, because I don't like it?" Because it sounds an awful lot like you seeing the changes in mechanics, and automatically equating that to less emphasis on exploration/puzzle-solving.
  • King_Edward 22 Apr 2013 10:04:47 11,454 posts
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    I see why people don't like arguing with you. :)

    I brought up pacing because it dictates the amount of combat in the game. The original RE has quite a flat pace. There's never really a point where the combat ramps up (maybe when the hunters come in, but only a little).

    RE4 starts you off in a heavy combat area (with the villagers), then drops off, before consistently ramping it up from there, but with a long area of down time in the middle (the castle). The different combat mechanics were brought in so that they could have a lot more combat.

    I absolutely adore RE4 btw.
  • fletch7100 22 Apr 2013 16:43:31 6,995 posts
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    http://www.computerandvideogames.com/402451/the-evil-within-gameplay-details-weapons-enemies-and-controls/

    http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/04/22/the-evil-within-first-look
  • Deleted user 22 April 2013 17:16:42
    Hope itís a return to Resident Evil / Silent Hill style games. I want a pistol, but I want to find about 3 bullets in the entire game so have to beat people down with a packet of quavers and a johny filled with pebbles.
  • mikeck 22 Apr 2013 17:39:50 1,905 posts
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    @lukejones Glad I'm not the only one ;)
  • JinTypeNoir 22 Apr 2013 18:16:19 4,365 posts
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    King_Edward wrote:
    I see why people don't like arguing with you. :)

    I brought up pacing because it dictates the amount of combat in the game. The original RE has quite a flat pace. There's never really a point where the combat ramps up (maybe when the hunters come in, but only a little).

    RE4 starts you off in a heavy combat area (with the villagers), then drops off, before consistently ramping it up from there, but with a long area of down time in the middle (the castle). The different combat mechanics were brought in so that they could have a lot more combat.

    I absolutely adore RE4 btw.
    Ha ha, the really weird thing about this is that I don't like 4 as much as you do and we've had a similar discussion in a different thread.
  • Breakage 25 Apr 2013 11:23:37 42 posts
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    Cover from the latest issue of Famitsu magazine reveals main character Detective Sebastian


    A slightly different screenshot from the same issue


    Edited by Breakage at 11:25:38 25-04-2013

    Edited by Breakage at 11:29:28 25-04-2013
  • Darth_Flibble 26 Apr 2013 09:57:03 1,626 posts
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    Really looking forward to the game and have high hopes it balances action and the survival aspect. Hope it leads the way for a return of real survival horror games as they all become shooter heavy

    Recently replayed the RE4 HD, it was good to play it again but it was easy to see the worst bits they added (too much QTE, boss fights being a bit annoying etc) and then you just ramped them up for 5 and 6. 4 made a welcome change from the usual RE formula as it still had decent atmosphere.
  • senso-ji 13 Jun 2013 21:39:49 5,801 posts
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    E3 Interview and first gameplay video

    Not much gameplay shown, but it does look good so far and some of the details from the short interview sound positive.
  • -cerberus- 5 Aug 2013 14:11:18 2,469 posts
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    Interesting, reminds me of Resident Evil 3.5!

    "You see it too? For me, it's always like this..."
    (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)

  • -cerberus- 5 Aug 2013 14:22:43 2,469 posts
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    Bollocks, they removed it already?! :-(

    I really hope they reuse and rework some of the ideas they had for RE3.5 because, to me, it looked infinitely more exciting than the TPS rubbish we got with RE4.

    "You see it too? For me, it's always like this..."
    (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)

  • Deleted user 9 September 2013 18:05:26
    TGS Trailer

  • Blerk Moderator 21 Sep 2013 09:34:02 48,225 posts
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    Okay, I'd been operating on the basis that this would most likely be shit after those first few non-game trailers were so limp, but the new trailer from TGS actually looks pretty interesting. Comes across as a cross between old-style Resi and Silent Hill.

    Hopefully he's learning more from The Last of Us than he is from any of the more 'traditional' survival horror games of recent times.
  • mrpon 27 Oct 2013 17:02:36 28,497 posts
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    A 12 minute gameplay vid here, it's in Spanish (the odd narration) but you get the idea. Seems fairly generic RE chainsaw guy chase! stuff to me.

    Give yourself £5 or Ĺ gig, you're worth it.

  • -cerberus- 27 Oct 2013 17:36:08 2,469 posts
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    Yeah, this type of "horror" just doesn't do it for me...

    "You see it too? For me, it's always like this..."
    (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)

  • -cerberus- 14 Feb 2014 14:40:25 2,469 posts
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    Videogamer: Confirmed for August 29

    "You see it too? For me, it's always like this..."
    (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)

  • Dombat 14 Feb 2014 15:21:22 242 posts
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    A few days after my birthday and before Destiny. If I don't pick up a PS4 (or Xbox One) sooner I will see this as the point I definitely do.
  • MothFlesh 27 May 2014 09:53:36 255 posts
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    Enemy Screens









    ^-That looks nice and ominous
  • DUFFMAN5 27 May 2014 10:18:00 14,438 posts
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    This screams to be played on a new machine, I might just have to get a one for this.

    "Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem! Oh, yeah!"

  • SomaticSense 27 May 2014 10:22:38 7,986 posts
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    I'm really excited by this.

    I started off little unsure, but it looks right up my street.
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