Global Wealth Disparity Page 5

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  • mcmonkeyplc 18 Apr 2013 14:16:52 39,457 posts
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    We should hook this guy up with Vizzi.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • ZuluHero 18 Apr 2013 14:17:00 4,172 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Intelligence is genetic?
    Phrenology alive and well! ;)
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 18 Apr 2013 14:17:57 6,654 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Intelligence is genetic?
    Intelligence is a parallel factor with genetics that make up a social product.

    All be it a much greater factor in terms of ratio. dunno.

    Edited by bitch_tits_zero_nine at 14:18:47 18-04-2013
  • LeoliansBro 18 Apr 2013 14:18:04 44,273 posts
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    ZuluHero wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Intelligence is genetic?
    Phrenology alive and well! ;)
    Well you would say that with your username, sticking up for all those Africans too stupid to make money (and don't get me started on their genetic arm troubles, blimey...).

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • kalel 18 Apr 2013 14:18:55 87,751 posts
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    Stefansen-W wrote:
    bitch_tits_zero_nine wrote:
    To be fair, I think that, as with Nature vs Nurture, It is impossible to ascertain the exact social effects of genetics
    I agree 100%.
    No you don't. You said it was the most important factor (by quite a large margin) in deciding balance of wealth globally.
  • Stefansen-W 18 Apr 2013 14:26:20 46 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    Are you that mental Italian guy?
    Yes.
    First I was Stefansen-V but an idiot moderator of the italian forum............never mind!
  • Stefansen-W 18 Apr 2013 14:28:17 46 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Stefansen-W wrote:
    bitch_tits_zero_nine wrote:
    To be fair, I think that, as with Nature vs Nurture, It is impossible to ascertain the exact social effects of genetics
    I agree 100%.
    No you don't. You said it was the most important factor (by quite a large margin) in deciding balance of wealth globally.
    What do you want?
    I said that genetics plays a fairly important role in the development of a people. Stop. The rest are just ideologies
  • Chopsen 18 Apr 2013 14:31:26 16,019 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Intelligence is genetic?
    Depends how you define intelligence, of course, but yes. There is a genetic component. But there are multiple genes at play, and it is I think an example of one of those epigenetic phenomena. And obviously there environmental factors as well.

    Also, those genetic factors are going to vary within any given population.

    Edited by Chopsen at 14:32:32 18-04-2013
  • Stefansen-W 18 Apr 2013 14:43:09 46 posts
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    We always come back to the same arguments. The determining factors are those listed by me at the beginning
  • Chopsen 18 Apr 2013 15:04:35 16,019 posts
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    Stefansen-W wrote:
    We always come back to the same arguments. The determining factors are those listed by me at the beginning
    Not at all.

    Is wealth production for a population *dependent* on the genetic traits of that population *independently* of other factors?

    You are(?) saying yes. Everybody else doesn't.
  • LeoliansBro 18 Apr 2013 15:07:01 44,273 posts
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    Stefansen is suggesting that if all the black people in Africa swapped places with all the white people in Europe, everything else remaining the same, then there would be marked decrease in European productivity and a marked increase in African productivity.

    I remember now - you were that fascist prat from Eurogamer.it weren't you?

    Edited by LeoliansBro at 15:07:09 18-04-2013

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Salaman 18 Apr 2013 15:44:11 19,075 posts
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    You're all jumping to conclusions about him being racist. He was actually thinking of the genetic traits of southern Italians making them inferior to norhthern Italians.
  • ZuluHero 18 Apr 2013 15:46:12 4,172 posts
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    Down with this sort of thing. Careful now.
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 18 Apr 2013 15:48:36 6,654 posts
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    "It's the Chinese he's after"
  • Chopsen 18 Apr 2013 16:42:19 16,019 posts
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    Europeans did well in Africa by exploiting the indigenous population as they did elsewhere.

    Comparing black minorities to other minorities in America is misguided, as generally the other groups you mentioned weren't not subject to the same experience of enforced slavery and segregation black Americans were.

    Epigenetic and environmental factors are not independent factors, and it is not an automatic logical conclusion that if a specific gene is identified which causes a specific problem, that this should be removed by breeding. You could equally argue that these people should be highlighted for additional support. In fact, given what we know about variable expression of genes and epigenetics, this would actually be more appropriate.

    Potential fitness to be a parent is a subjective judgement with an unknown outcome. Also, given what I said about epigenetics, there are more moral ways of dealing with the problems than enforced sterilisation.

    Edited by Chopsen at 16:43:31 18-04-2013
  • Latin 18 Apr 2013 16:59:02 3,699 posts
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    Can we change the way of the world? Possibly. But then we start removing incentives for corporations and ultimately, people, to be (financially) successful. We inhibit basic human nature to want more and explore ways of doing that.

    Would we have had such massive improvements in technology and standards of living if we were forced to share the spoils of success? How many advancements, whether they be technological, agricultural, pharmaceutical etc. are made altruistically? We might expect government to do that, but governments are hardly efficient and where does the government get most of its funding from anyway? The people who are making the most money! So who then do we rely on to take us further!? Or do we all stand still?

    It's all well and good bemoaning the ultra rich, but people are living longer and better lives than ever before...

    Also, shit happens, get over it!
  • Mr_Sleep 18 Apr 2013 17:46:31 17,082 posts
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    I just have to ask, how the fuck did a potentially interesting thread about economics and the disparity of wealth turn into this omnishambles?

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • cubbymoore 18 Apr 2013 17:50:07 36,498 posts
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    Once again, we have the Italians to blame.
  • MightyMouse 18 Apr 2013 17:54:36 1,133 posts
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    @Mr_Sleep

    All threads about economics and politics do. That's Cameron's Britain!
  • Deleted user 18 April 2013 17:57:06
    Stefansen-W wrote:
    If I had to attribute to them a value of incidence, I would say:
    -Climate 20%
    -Geographical proximity with other peoples 10%
    -Population genetics 30%
    -Famines and pestilences 30%
    -Factors of randomness of events 10%
    Ignoring that you're a massive racist, climate is less important than famines? Proximity to other people is the least important factor?

    I hate to ask but what do you think is a major cause of famines?

    Asians earn more than Africans because of their genes?
  • Mr_Sleep 18 Apr 2013 18:05:16 17,082 posts
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    MightyMouse wrote:
    @Mr_Sleep

    All threads about economics and politics do. That's Cameron's Britain!
    :-)

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • RedSparrows 18 Apr 2013 18:28:58 22,761 posts
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    Graveland wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Stefansen is suggesting that if all the black people in Africa swapped places with all the white people in Europe, everything else remaining the same, then there would be marked decrease in European productivity and a marked increase in African productivity.

    I remember now - you were that fascist prat from Eurogamer.it weren't you?
    Isn't this partly true, though? Under European rule, Africa flourished. Granted, only the Europeans really benefitted from it but it flourished nonetheless.

    In America the social group with the highest crime rates, unemployment rates per capita are African-Americans. Is this simply because they're an oppressed minority? If so, how come Indians, Chinese and Jews are amongst the most successful groups in America?

    If it is determined that genetics play a significant role in the development of personality and intelligence, would it be morally correct to encourage those who possess such genes that will increase the likelihood of significantly low intelligence and destructive personality traits to refrain from procreation?

    Is it socially beneficial to encourage Chavs to breed en masse? Would society be improved if they were incentivised to consider sterilization? This is a serious question. Is it morally right to encourage unfit parents to bring children into the world if the likely end result will be damaged and unwanted children?
    1905 called, they want their discussions back.
  • Stefansen-W 18 Apr 2013 22:20:09 46 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    Stefansen-W wrote:
    If I had to attribute to them a value of incidence, I would say:
    -Climate 20%
    -Geographical proximity with other peoples 10%
    -Population genetics 30%
    -Famines and pestilences 30%
    -Factors of randomness of events 10%
    Ignoring that you're a massive racist, climate is less important than famines? Proximity to other people is the least important factor?

    I hate to ask but what do you think is a major cause of famines?

    Asians earn more than Africans because of their genes?
    Ignoring that I'm not a massive racist, I want to ask you the question the other way:
    Asians earn more than Africans why?

    I could answer that because Asians are human calculators (in playful way) they are designed for industrial mass. Look Sony, Samsung, or Chinese industrial giants. But Asians unlike the Africans are not designed much for physical activity. In this particular historical moment, earn more who has the most powerful industries than who are physically more gifted.
    Maybe in the future things will be different
  • cubbymoore 18 Apr 2013 22:24:47 36,498 posts
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    Yep, you definitely demonstrate you are not a massive racist.
  • Stefansen-W 18 Apr 2013 22:25:47 46 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Stefansen is suggesting that if all the black people in Africa swapped places with all the white people in Europe, everything else remaining the same, then there would be marked decrease in European productivity and a marked increase in African productivity.

    I remember now - you were that fascist prat from Eurogamer.it weren't you?
    I'm not belong to italian forum. In fact, I joined the forum English afresh because the moderators of that forum are trolls, and the average user is vulgar racist and arrogant
  • RedSparrows 18 Apr 2013 23:13:42 22,761 posts
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    Racism is not necessarily pointing out genetic differences, but rather suggesting some innate attribute (usually, with racism, it's not an actual definable physical attribute, either - 'purity' over physical strength) makes one race superior to another, and then using that as a (significant) foundation for all judgements made about people.

    It also totally ignores the fact that there are way, way, way more commonalities than differences, and that cultural tropes do not affect everyone equally, in terms of the moral effect, the strength of effect, the receptiveness to the effect, etc. For me, culture wins every time. You put a baby in a culture, it will grow up to adhere (or reject, but reject it in a way specific to the forms and features of that culture) to various parts of that. If there is a genetic root that people feel the tug of, then for me it's so deep as to be human, rather than 'African' or 'Asian' or 'European'. Anything higher is deeper cultural roots.

    Stefansen isn't necessarily a racist, but he's pretty muddled (being generous) when talking about 'Africa' and 'Asia'. It's not helpful in the least.

    Edited by RedSparrows at 23:15:36 18-04-2013
  • cubbymoore 18 Apr 2013 23:15:16 36,498 posts
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    He's Italian, of course he's a massive racist.
  • malloc 18 Apr 2013 23:17:19 2,346 posts
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    Money != happiness

    I've seen beggars in some of the poorest areas of Africa happier than those on 6 figure salaries at my work
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