Gender equality and earnings in sport Page 6

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  • Deleted user 9 April 2013 13:26:05
    Do you think a woman footballer could be the physical equivalent of the weakest possible male footballer?

    Edited by kalel at 13:26:54 09-04-2013
  • Deckard1 9 Apr 2013 13:27:41 29,168 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Do you think a woman footballer could be the physical equivalent of the weakest possible male footballer?
    Like who, give me an example. And I'm not just talking strength, I'm talking pace and stamina as well.

    Edited by Deckard1 at 13:28:25 09-04-2013

    Fish fingers and chips pretty straight forward.

  • chopsen 9 Apr 2013 13:28:46 16,209 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Do you think a woman footballer could be the physical equivalent of the weakest possible male footballer?
    That does not undermine deckard's point.
  • SClaw 9 Apr 2013 13:35:07 826 posts
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    Uh huh. Please go tell that to Natasha Jonas or Queen Underwood, etc. It'll make for a hilarious youtube video.
  • Deleted user 9 April 2013 13:35:30
    Deckard1 wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    Do you think a woman footballer could be the physical equivalent of the weakest possible male footballer?
    Like who, give me an example. And I'm not just talking strength, I'm talking pace and stamina as well.
    I don't know, I'm thinking someone like Gio Dos Santos when he was at Spurs or someone like that. There have been some incredibly slight young players around. When Lennon first came on for us at 17 he was like built a 12 year old.

    As for pace and stamina, there are certainly female players around who could do the likes of Tommy Huddlestone for pace and stamina.

    Or are you saying female players need a combination of all these attributes, and if so, why?
  • Deleted user 9 April 2013 13:36:59
    Chopsen wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    Do you think a woman footballer could be the physical equivalent of the weakest possible male footballer?
    That does not undermine deckard's point.
    I think it potentially undermines this one:

    we are describing an imaginary world where a womans physicality will not be a hindrance for them playing top level football. Who can say what would happen to the world of womans football if they were good enough, or strong enough to play with men. They're not and never will be so we're just arguing about imaginary stuff now.

    Or at least the strong enough bit. The good enough bit is what this all comes down to.
  • Deckard1 9 Apr 2013 13:45:06 29,168 posts
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    Ok, so one day maybe the stars will align and we get a butch enough, fast enough, fit enough woman, who is 300 times more skilled than any woman footballer that has came before her, and she will be able to play in the premiership. I'll give you that. In the real world at the moment though, I can never ever see it happen, except by a freak of nature, and it will certainly never become common. We're never going to agree on it, and endless circular arguments aren't really my thing so we'll leave it there.

    Fish fingers and chips pretty straight forward.

  • Deleted user 9 April 2013 13:46:15
    Every player in the Premier League has strength, pace and skill – it just that relative to each other it may not look like it.

    I just don’t buy the concept of these ‘weedy yet skilfull’ players – they are still all muscle.

    Its too simplistic to say that you don’t need all three attributes and a woman would need all three also.

    I would hazard a guess that even some old carthorse like John Terry would be more than a match pace wise for any women player.
  • Deleted user 9 April 2013 14:06:34
    Deckard1 wrote:
    Ok, so one day maybe the stars will align and we get a butch enough, fast enough, fit enough woman, who is 300 times more skilled than any woman footballer that has came before her, and she will be able to play in the premiership. I'll give you that. In the real world at the moment though, I can never ever see it happen, except by a freak of nature, and it will certainly never become common. We're never going to agree on it, and endless circular arguments aren't really my thing so we'll leave it there.
    I like the act of discussion. It's not a fight. Leave it if it bothers you. that's fine.

    No idea what the rest of that post is about. It's not even slightly aligned with my points.
  • Deleted user 9 April 2013 14:08:53
    Alipan wrote:
    Every player in the Premier League has strength, pace and skill – it just that relative to each other it may not look like it.

    I just don’t buy the concept of these ‘weedy yet skilfull’ players – they are still all muscle.

    Its too simplistic to say that you don’t need all three attributes and a woman would need all three also.

    I would hazard a guess that even some old carthorse like John Terry would be more than a match pace wise for any women player.
    So you are effectively saying that the slowest, weakest and/or least skilled male player would still be faster, stronger and/or more skilled, than the fastest, strongest and/or most skilled female player?

    If so fine. I don't agree, but there's no argument if that were the case.
  • Deleted user 9 April 2013 14:11:32
    graysonavich wrote:
    Premiership footballers are on another planet when it comes to physical fitness.

    I remember seeing some charity middle distance sports run, with current and retired men and women, rowers, cyclists, etc. Dwight Yorke (retired) went off like a rocket, basically left the entire field for dust.
    That would be conditioning to an extent though no? If the best women footballers were given access to the same diet and training, could they not get to a similar level?
  • nickthegun 9 Apr 2013 14:12:27 61,055 posts
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    graysonavich wrote:
    Premiership footballers are on another planet when it comes to physical fitness.
    They are on a different planet when compared to other footballers. Dropping down just a single league shows a gulf in class.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Deckard1 9 Apr 2013 14:12:51 29,168 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Deckard1 wrote:
    Ok, so one day maybe the stars will align and we get a butch enough, fast enough, fit enough woman, who is 300 times more skilled than any woman footballer that has came before her, and she will be able to play in the premiership. I'll give you that. In the real world at the moment though, I can never ever see it happen, except by a freak of nature, and it will certainly never become common. We're never going to agree on it, and endless circular arguments aren't really my thing so we'll leave it there.
    I like the act of discussion. It's not a fight. Leave it if it bothers you. that's fine.

    No idea what the rest of that post is about. It's not even slightly aligned with my points.
    I'm saying that my opinion is yes, I'll admit that someday there may be a woman that can play mens football, but it would be a freak of nature, and not at all a common thing. In my opinion. Thats it really. And I know it's not a fight, but I feel we've reached a deadlock.

    Fish fingers and chips pretty straight forward.

  • nickthegun 9 Apr 2013 14:14:44 61,055 posts
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    Also, yeah, its a different kind of fitness. I remember hearing an interview with a swimmer about getting people into the pool. He attended a charity event with loads of sports stars, really fit and a lot of them couldnt even muster a length.

    You stick dwight yorke on a bike or in a skull and he would probably get smashed.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • cubbymoore 9 Apr 2013 14:16:24 36,503 posts
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    Some people have clearly never seen Bend It Like Beckham.
  • Deckard1 9 Apr 2013 14:20:48 29,168 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    graysonavich wrote:
    Premiership footballers are on another planet when it comes to physical fitness.

    I remember seeing some charity middle distance sports run, with current and retired men and women, rowers, cyclists, etc. Dwight Yorke (retired) went off like a rocket, basically left the entire field for dust.
    That would be conditioning to an extent though no? If the best women footballers were given access to the same diet and training, could they not get to a similar level?
    Not really, you need only look at any world records to see the difference a top male athlete and a top female athlete has in terms of speed, strength and stamina. Nearly a minute difference in 1500 metres for example, which is a 3-4 minute race. So conditioning is only going to go so far.

    Fish fingers and chips pretty straight forward.

  • Trane 9 Apr 2013 14:23:11 4,058 posts
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    graysonavich wrote:
    Premiership footballers are on another planet when it comes to physical fitness.

    I remember seeing some charity middle distance sports run, with current and retired men and women, rowers, cyclists, etc. Dwight Yorke (retired) went off like a rocket, basically left the entire field for dust.
    So a guy who ran for sport was better at running than other sportsmen/sportswomen whose sport didn't involve running? OK
  • Deleted user 9 April 2013 14:23:44
    @kalel
    Yes - Using the example of the Premier League I am suggesting that even the strongest woman player would not be the equivalent of even the weakest male player in that league.

    If we are talking about if equality in sport is possible and whether women can compete surely we have to look at sport at the highest level?

    Edited by Alipan at 14:25:32 09-04-2013
  • LeoliansBro 9 Apr 2013 14:25:00 44,737 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    Nearly a minute difference in 1500 metres for example, which is a 3-4 minute race. So conditioning is only going to go so far.
    Fiction. 3m 26s vs 3m 50s.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Deleted user 9 April 2013 14:25:29
    Hmm, not sure how we're defining "fitness" here. I merely meant the ability to play 90 mins of football at that level.

    Which by the way is another thing that hugely varies. There have been some laughably unfit Premier League players, and yes, while they were probably still pretty fit in the bigger picture, top female athletes are certainly comparable imo.

    It really comes down to the question of individual skill. I think if a female player had a unique enough individual ability that could be of use in a male team, then you could work around the rest. Allowances like this are constantly made for male players who might be lacking in strength, or height or speed or whatever. I don't see why it should be any different for women.
  • Deleted user 9 April 2013 14:26:41
    Alipan wrote:
    It would prove nothing to say that some women are better than some men - that Hope Solo is a better goalie than the Accrington Stanley reserve keeper.
    Um...how does that prove nothing?
  • Latin 9 Apr 2013 14:28:36 3,817 posts
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    @kalel I think he's saying to play in the premier league you need a combination of all these things, and there's a base requirement level that you need to even play. Wayne rooney gets ripped to shreds for being fat and slow, but he's a damn sight quicker and fitter than most of us and I'd wager most women professionals.

    Given the pool of male professional players available is much much larger than women professionals, even the best woman would struggle to play in the premier league, it is, after all, one of the elite leagues in the world.

    Someday there may be a player good enough, of course they may be, but right now there probably isn't.
  • Deleted user 9 April 2013 14:30:17
    I'm not quite sure where this whole Premier League thing is coming from btw.
  • nickthegun 9 Apr 2013 14:31:01 61,055 posts
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    I dont think anyone is disputing that. Just that if there was a woman who had 'what it takes' she should be allowed to play wherever she likes.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Deleted user 9 April 2013 14:31:39
    Latin wrote:
    Someday there may be a player good enough, of course they may be, but right now there probably isn't.
    Anyway, fine, yes, agreed. Others that been suggesting that could never happen due to the physicality issue, and that's what I have been arguing with.
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