Gender equality and earnings in sport Page 5

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  • Deckard1 9 Apr 2013 12:21:55 27,981 posts
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    Sports stars are paid by sponsors, ticket sales etc. Now what interest is anyone going to have in a womans sport that has all the better players removed from it? Therefore the popularity of whatever is left over is going to nose dive even further, meaning unless you're good enough to make it into the mens game, you're fucked basically.
  • Shikasama 9 Apr 2013 12:23:37 6,832 posts
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    The Lingerie Football League is a giant stride to making female sport more watchable.
  • Chopsen 9 Apr 2013 12:24:08 15,967 posts
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    That depends what you're talking about. If you're talking about a "proper" league and then a "let the women have a go" league then yes.

    But you could have men's, women's and mixed as seperate leagues still.
  • nickthegun 9 Apr 2013 12:24:47 59,909 posts
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    Again, outside of a handful of elite leagues, that already happens.

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  • Chopsen 9 Apr 2013 12:24:53 15,967 posts
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    That's in response to deckard, btw. I really don't think men's sport would be enhanced by lingerie.
  • morriss 9 Apr 2013 12:24:57 70,976 posts
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    Women are getting a new ball designed for Women's Football. Adidas is making it.
  • neilka 9 Apr 2013 12:25:07 15,914 posts
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    This thread needs more pictures.

    A map is like comparing velocity and speed.

  • nickthegun 9 Apr 2013 12:26:56 59,909 posts
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    morriss wrote:
    Women are getting a new ball designed for Women's Football. Adidas is making it.

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  • LeoliansBro 9 Apr 2013 12:27:11 44,215 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    Sports stars are paid by sponsors, ticket sales etc. Now what interest is anyone going to have in a womans sport that has all the better players removed from it? Therefore the popularity of whatever is left over is going to nose dive even further, meaning unless you're good enough to make it into the mens game, you're fucked basically.
    You could argue that some countries have seen their local football leagues fucked by all the homegrown talent leaving to join the bigger competitions. Should this be blocked as well.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Chopsen 9 Apr 2013 12:29:02 15,967 posts
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    It would give more validity to anation's team being the *nation's* team, wouldn't it?
  • LeoliansBro 9 Apr 2013 12:31:27 44,215 posts
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    I'm more for individual freedom than national achievement, but I take your point.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Zizoo 9 Apr 2013 12:32:12 8,374 posts
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    neilka wrote:
    This thread needs more pictures.




  • Deckard1 9 Apr 2013 12:32:52 27,981 posts
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    So as womans football is striving to be taken seriously and gain some relevance, you think its progressive for them if we say, "ok look, if you do well enough in your own league a few of you can come and play in the proper league". All the while weakening the skill base of the womans league and making it ever less attractive to watch.

    Edited by Deckard1 at 12:36:02 09-04-2013
  • kalel 9 Apr 2013 12:35:00 87,627 posts
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    Alipan wrote:
    Honest question Kalel - you say that women and men are good at different things in sport. Can you expand on this? Im not sure I agree.
    If you watch women's tennis you will often see a greater variation in the types of shots played, and greater emphasis in the style of the individuals. What it lacks in athleticism and physicality (compared to the men's game), it makes up in certain technical skills and finesse.

    There are similar difference in women's football although far less pronounced as the game is nowhere near as developed.
  • nickthegun 9 Apr 2013 12:35:34 59,909 posts
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    Do you think if other women see that there are rich rewards for being one of those elite players, the general standard of the league wont rise?

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  • speedofthepuma 9 Apr 2013 12:36:49 13,299 posts
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    As with most aspects, cricket is ahead of the rest of sports.

    actually I don't think she ever really came close to playing, and the media enjoyed a storm there with little reason, but there is talk of there being a cross over at some point, and I suspect a very good spinner could make it in the men's game, or perhaps a wicket keeper/batsman

    I lurk. If I've spoken to you, I'm either impassioned, or drunk.

  • kalel 9 Apr 2013 12:37:40 87,627 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    Sports stars are paid by sponsors, ticket sales etc. Now what interest is anyone going to have in a womans sport that has all the better players removed from it? Therefore the popularity of whatever is left over is going to nose dive even further, meaning unless you're good enough to make it into the mens game, you're fucked basically.
    OK, I buy this argument, but if top players go into the men's game, then more and better younger players will start to come through at grass roots. You'll see an overall increase in the quality and the profile, and in time women's football is improved and legitimised at all levels.
  • LeoliansBro 9 Apr 2013 12:38:11 44,215 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    So as womans football is striving to be taken seriously and gain some relevance, you think its progressive for them if we say, "ok look, if you do well enough in your own league a few of you can come and play in the proper league". All the while weakening the skill base of the womans league and making it ever less attractive to watch.
    Change 'womans football' to 'women footballers' and ask the question again.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Shikasama 9 Apr 2013 12:38:12 6,832 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Alipan wrote:
    Honest question Kalel - you say that women and men are good at different things in sport. Can you expand on this? Im not sure I agree.
    If you watch women's tennis you will often see a greater variation in the types of shots played, and greater emphasis in the style of the individuals. What it lacks in athleticism and physicality (compared to the men's game), it makes up in certain technical skills and finesse.

    There are similar difference in women's football although far less pronounced as the game is nowhere near as developed.
    I agree with that. Sometimes you definitely get the feeling that men are just relying on being utter powerhouses where the women can't so much.

    But then you get the brick shithouse women like the Williams sisters who CAN do that and they absolutely clean up because no-one else can compete.
  • kalel 9 Apr 2013 12:39:06 87,627 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    So as womans football is striving to be taken seriously and gain some relevance, you think its progressive for them if we say, "ok look, if you do well enough in your own league a few of you can come and play in the proper league". All the while weakening the skill base of the womans league and making it ever less attractive to watch.
    Again, it's not a limited pool of players. New blood will come in.

    You are effectively describing the relationship between the Championship and the Premier League.
  • kalel 9 Apr 2013 12:40:24 87,627 posts
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    Shikasama wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    Alipan wrote:
    Honest question Kalel - you say that women and men are good at different things in sport. Can you expand on this? Im not sure I agree.
    If you watch women's tennis you will often see a greater variation in the types of shots played, and greater emphasis in the style of the individuals. What it lacks in athleticism and physicality (compared to the men's game), it makes up in certain technical skills and finesse.

    There are similar difference in women's football although far less pronounced as the game is nowhere near as developed.
    I agree with that. Sometimes you definitely get the feeling that men are just relying on being utter powerhouses where the women can't so much.

    But then you get the brick shithouse women like the Williams sisters who CAN do that and they absolutely clean up because no-one else can compete.
    OK, but again I come back to my original point that football is a team game, and in a team you might find a better balance with a bit of both.
  • LeoliansBro 9 Apr 2013 12:42:32 44,215 posts
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    Kalel - you wonder why someone in the lower leagues doesn't at least consider it, given the untapped potential and presumable economising. Lack of a developed scout system maybe?

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • kalel 9 Apr 2013 12:44:38 87,627 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Kalel - you wonder why someone in the lower leagues doesn't at least consider it, given the untapped potential and presumable economising. Lack of a developed scout system maybe?
    Is it actually allowed?
  • Deckard1 9 Apr 2013 12:46:40 27,981 posts
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    Legitimised, that's the fucking word I was trying to think of. Again though, this is all completely moot, as we are describing an imaginary world where a womans physicality will not be a hindrance for them playing top level football. Who can say what would happen to the world of womans football if they were good enough, or strong enough to play with men. They're not and never will be so we're just arguing about imaginary stuff now.
  • LeoliansBro 9 Apr 2013 12:47:44 44,215 posts
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    We have women refs? If it isn't allowed that's a bit shit.

    Imagine a team with women in it rocketing up the leagues. Imagine what that would do for the game.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Deleted user 9 April 2013 12:51:47
    @kalel. Sorry I disagree. To take your tennis example men can play exactly the same shots as women if they so choose. Its just that power wins the day.
  • ram 9 Apr 2013 13:09:03 3,479 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Alipan wrote:
    Honest question Kalel - you say that women and men are good at different things in sport. Can you expand on this? Im not sure I agree.
    If you watch women's tennis you will often see a greater variation in the types of shots played, and greater emphasis in the style of the individuals. What it lacks in athleticism and physicality (compared to the men's game), it makes up in certain technical skills and finesse.

    Men tennis has all the shot variation, technical ability etc of the women. The big difference is men can play more clean winning shots due to speed of shot relative to speed of movement.

    Women's tennis is enjoyable to watch, as tennis doesn't necessarily suffer from being played at a slower speed. Which is why clay and grass court tennis exist along side each other

    If women's tennis is to be seen as equal, then introduce 5 set matches into slams for women. All the best mens matches are 5 set humdingers. No reason why women couldn't play 5 sets.

    Edited by ram at 13:09:43 09-04-2013
  • Deleted user 9 April 2013 13:11:58
    I was referring to this story earlier - I think the womens game often gives a false impression of finesse as women dont always make up the ground which suggests a skillful shot when in fact in the mens game it would be gobbled up.

    "During the 1998 Australian Open, sisters Serena and Venus Williams boasted that they could beat any man ranked outside the world's top 200. The challenge was accepted by Karsten Braasch, a German player ranked No 203 (his highest ranking was No 38). before the matches, Braasch played a round of golf in the morning, drank a couple of beers, smoked a few cigarettes, and then played the Williams sisters for a set each, one after the other. He defeated Serena, 6-1, and Venus, 6-2. Serena said afterwards "I didn't know it would be that hard. I hit shots that would have been winners on the women's tour and he got to them easily."

    Edited by Alipan at 13:12:39 09-04-2013
  • kalel 9 Apr 2013 13:13:43 87,627 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    Legitimised, that's the fucking word I was trying to think of. Again though, this is all completely moot, as we are describing an imaginary world where a womans physicality will not be a hindrance for them playing top level football. Who can say what would happen to the world of womans football if they were good enough, or strong enough to play with men. They're not and never will be so we're just arguing about imaginary stuff now.
    Well, our side discussion was kind of whether this is all about the physicality thing, and I personally think it's not as fundamental as you do.

    Again, we accept that some male players justify their place on skill despite being small and "weak", so I don't understand why we can't make the same acceptance for women.

    Unless you're saying that all women are so incredibly weak and feeble (even professional athletes) that somehow this is unworkable.
  • Deckard1 9 Apr 2013 13:24:42 27,981 posts
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    Weak and feeble is a bit of a strawman. But do I think a woman will be able to compete with the top male sportsmen in games like football - no. Again nothing to do with sexism, but woman and men are different. I'm sure 100's of years in to the future we would have all homogenised into a unisex race who reproduce asexually and have smooth crotches, and the world will live in perfect harmony, but at the minute men and woman are different. Men just happen to be stronger, faster, and more skilled at sports, and woman cannot compete with them. It's not sexist, its just how people are made.
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