The consumer rights thread

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  • kalel 28 Mar 2013 13:49:55 87,583 posts
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    This comes up a lot but I couldn't find a thread that was devoted to it, so have created one.

    I've bought an item online, and at the time I was given no indication that it wasn't in stock, and payment was taken. Item was supposed to be with me within a week.

    Three months later and I still have not received the item. Every time I call they say they are expecting a delivery this week, and then it never happens.

    Do I have the right to a refund?
  • Deleted user 28 March 2013 13:52:33
    Pretty sure with online stuff the contract between buyer and seller is only "signed" when the seller ships, up until then the buyer can cancel for any reason without penalty. Unless it's something that's being specifically handmade or customised or something.

    Only going on vague memory there rather than anything concrete, though.

    Edited by meme at 13:53:29 28-03-2013
  • Deleted user 28 March 2013 13:53:10
    If they don't provide you with the item you are entitled to a refund, or have I missed something?
  • Shikasama 28 Mar 2013 13:55:00 6,828 posts
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    You can issue a chargeback upto 120 days after purchase if you paid with a Visa card.

    This can have pretty hefty consequences though - it's extremely unlikely the company will ever deal with you again (if you are even bothered by that).

    Non delivery of goods is a classic example of something a chargeback would be issued ofor

    Edited by Shikasama at 13:55:23 28-03-2013
  • Deckard1 28 Mar 2013 13:55:16 27,981 posts
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    And the great butt plug shortage of 2013 claims another victim.
  • kalel 28 Mar 2013 13:55:42 87,583 posts
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    It's a pair of glasses so the lenses are custom, but it's the frames themselves that are not in stock yet. They're claiming they've already made my lenses though...
  • Trowel 28 Mar 2013 13:55:46 17,744 posts
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    meme wrote:
    Pretty sure with online stuff the contract between buyer and seller is only "signed" when the seller ships, up until then the buyer can cancel for any reason without penalty. Unless it's something that's being specifically handmade or customised or something.

    Only going on vague memory there rather than anything concrete, though.
    This. I've been following a thread along similar lines on MSE for a while where someone's taking a furniture supplier to small claims as they refused to cancel without charging him.
  • kalel 28 Mar 2013 13:56:52 87,583 posts
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    Shikasama wrote:
    You can issue a chargeback upto 120 days after purchase if you paid with a Visa card.

    This can have pretty hefty consequences though - it's extremely unlikely the company will ever deal with you again (if you are even bothered by that).

    Non delivery of goods is a classic example of something a chargeback would be issued ofor
    I did use Visa. I think I'm unlikely to use this company again frankly, but I might be inclined just to threaten them with me doing that to get a refund before actually doing it.

    Thanks.
  • Shikasama 28 Mar 2013 13:57:29 6,828 posts
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    Also worth noting that a chargeback has nothing to do with the seller, it's done between your bank and the emrchants bank so they can't do much about it
  • billythekid 28 Mar 2013 13:58:07 11,131 posts
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    This should be covered by the distance selling act I believe.

    Linky

    Edited by billythekid at 13:59:09 28-03-2013
  • Deleted user 28 March 2013 13:58:37
    Have you asked for a refund yet?
  • Bremenacht 28 Mar 2013 14:00:05 18,190 posts
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    I had that before. They were still advertising goods while sending me emails claiming they would have stock in soon. I eventually sent them a note to say they were behaving fraudulantly and that I would contact the Office of Fair trading if I didn't get the goods or a refund within 7 days. I got the goods.
  • kalel 28 Mar 2013 14:00:06 87,583 posts
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    I have asked for a refund but they've so far persuaded me to wait a bit longer (twice) for them to arrive. I have told them if they don't come tomorrow I'll be demanding the refund, so just lining my ducks up in advance.
  • DFawkes 28 Mar 2013 14:00:14 22,938 posts
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    The best I can find is this:

    19.—(1) Unless the parties agree otherwise, the supplier shall perform the contract within a maximum of 30 days beginning with the day after the day the consumer sent his order to the supplier.

    (2) Subject to paragraphs (7) and (8), where the supplier is unable to perform the contract because the goods or services ordered are not available, within the period for performance referred to in paragraph (1) or such other period as the parties agree (“the period for performance”), he shall—

    (a)inform the consumer; and
    (b)reimburse any sum paid by or on behalf of the consumer under or in relation to the contract to the person by whom it was made.
    (3) The reference in paragraph (2)(b) to any sum paid on behalf of the consumer includes any sum paid by a creditor who is not the same person as the supplier under a personal credit agreement with the consumer.

    (4) The supplier shall make the reimbursement referred to in paragraph (2)(b) as soon as possible and in any event within a period of 30 days beginning with the day after the day on which the period for performance expired.

    (5) A contract which has not been performed within the period for performance shall be treated as if it had not been made, save for any rights or remedies which the consumer has under it as a result of the non-performance.

    The only sticking point is the thing meme brought up - I'm not sure what counts as the contract beginning. I'd have thought it's when they take the money, but as meme suggests it might be on shipping.

    Edited by DFawkes at 14:03:10 28-03-2013

    Oh for goodness sake, I've caught my scrotum in my zip again - Margaret Thatcher, 1986

  • Bremenacht 28 Mar 2013 14:00:27 18,190 posts
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    Yes, do. Assume the worst, and act on it.
  • DFawkes 28 Mar 2013 14:07:51 22,938 posts
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    Quick additional:

    Exceptions to the right to cancel

    13.—(1) Unless the parties have agreed otherwise, the consumer will not have the right to cancel the contract by giving notice of cancellation pursuant to regulation 10 in respect of contracts—
    (c)for the supply of goods made to the consumer’s specifications or clearly personalised or which by reason of their nature cannot be returned or are liable to deteriorate or expire rapidly;

    Not sure if how that interacts with the other stuff. Legal documents can be a pain to interpret. I'd have thought that given it's 3 months gone, the bit from 19.5 would supercede it, IF them taking money counts as the beginning of the contract.

    Oh for goodness sake, I've caught my scrotum in my zip again - Margaret Thatcher, 1986

  • Deleted user 28 March 2013 14:09:12
    Problem with this is that the 'Unless the parties have agreed otherwise' is almost definitely the case with anything involving customisation (or anything online tbh).
  • kalel 28 Mar 2013 14:09:45 87,583 posts
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    Thanks.

    They might be very reasonable about the refund when it comes to it, but I doubt it. The last few conversations with them have just given me a sense that they're sheisters.

    The Visa thing sounds like a good out if it doesn't work out.
  • Bremenacht 28 Mar 2013 14:14:30 18,190 posts
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    Check with Visa first. They do offer clear advice as to what they will or will not do, along with a timeline.
  • Trowel 28 Mar 2013 14:17:08 17,744 posts
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    Stick a question on the MSE Consumer Rights board, they have consumer credit nerds on all day answering quickly - it's their equivalent of the Quiz Redux thread ;)
  • JamesUK 5 Jun 2014 18:20:56 169 posts
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    I'm currently having problems with GameStop I returned a faulty PS4 to them on the 24th April and I've not heard anything from them since. I've sent multiple emails to try to find out what's going on but have received zero response.

    I've been looking into what I can do to get it resolved but I'm just kind of confused now. The small claims court is said to be the last resort, with ADR (alternative dispute resolution), ombudsman, Trading Standards offering alternative solutions. Those alternatives seem to be more geared towards specialist trades and independents. I can't find a relevant ombudsman for general online retail and it doesn't look like GameStop is a member of any UK trade associations.

    My original order was paid through PayPal, so that rules out Section75. I'm getting no response from GameStop so is the small claims court my only course of action?. Has anyone here gone through the small claims process and got any advice?
  • poot 5 Jun 2014 18:25:38 784 posts
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    Try calling them. 020 35 649107
  • CosmicFuzz 5 Jun 2014 18:42:43 24,230 posts
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    Small claims us designed for ordinary folk to do, so it's fairly straightforward. But it should be your last resort. As poot says, try phoning. There must be someone you can speak to.

    Our month-long focus on indie games starts with my look at the PS4's best game (still): Resogun!

  • IMO 5 Jun 2014 18:50:24 5,659 posts
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    Send a letter? Signed for so they can't deny they received it. Progressively work your way up the chain. If no-one replies, send it to the CEO.
  • LegendaryApe 5 Jun 2014 18:50:41 325 posts
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    I'd definitely ring them first as Poot suggested. As a Gamestop employee (store in Ireland) I can say without hesitation that European HQ is a joke, and wouldn't order anything from them more expensive than 10 euro. In the shops we'd bend over backwards to replace items, especially a console. But the online side of the business isn't the best.

    Ring, and also maybe mention that you were considering small claims court.
    Also, Gamestop will require a reference number from Sony before they'll exchange a console. Just make sure to have it at the ready.

    Edited by LegendaryApe at 18:51:28 05-06-2014

    Edited by LegendaryApe at 22:34:55 05-06-2014

    My favourite word is Fuzwuzzle, screamed into the cold night air.

  • JamesUK 6 Jun 2014 13:43:15 169 posts
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    I was just about to call the number "Poot" supplied but checked my email beforehand to find an update from GameStop sent 1hr ago.

    Apparently, the returns team is waiting for authorisation to exchange the console. They state that they should have authorisation today and can ship the exchanged console.

    This is the first update that I've received since returning the console 6 weeks ago. GameStop ask to allow 14 working days to process returns, so this is long overdue. After 4 weeks I requested a refund rather than an exchange and told them that due to the delay I had purchased another PS4 console. Truth is I haven't purchased a replacement, I daren't do it until this was resolved but GameStop aren't to know that.

    My preference would be a refund so I can purchase a replacement elsewhere but as I understand it a retailer has no legal obligation to issue one. I don't see any point in trying to argue my case that due to the delay I want a refund. It'd probably just complicate matters and I'd much rather see this resolved. GameStop are very tardy with their replies and I suspect that they would just ship the replacement regardless. Anyway, if the email is accurate then I would expect to receive a new PS4 within a few days.

    My first email requesting an exchange of my faulty PS4 was 10 weeks ago. The problem I've had with GameStop all stems from the complete lack of communication from their customer service and unreasonbly slow response. If they'd just kept me informed I would not of felt the need to look into legal action.


    Edit -
    I emailed American Express (the card I used via PayPal) yesterday to query whether I am covered under Section 75 or if they offer any services to help resolve this matter. I was just weighing up my options and I expected the answer to be no. I received a reply a few hours later (I use a second email account for banking and I've only just noticed the reply).

    It turns out American Express are quite happy to look into it and have disputed the charge. They are investigating the matter and will complete the inquiry on my behalf.

    I'm wondering if it was just coincidence that GameStop replied to me today or if this was the kick up the arse they needed to get things moving.

    Edited by JamesUK at 14:50:04 06-06-2014
  • CosmicFuzz 6 Jun 2014 13:46:30 24,230 posts
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    Hope you get it sorted soon man, stuff like this is a total pain in the arse. But as you say, you almost feel that trying to argue the toss with them will just result in more delays! Get your console and get out of there!

    Our month-long focus on indie games starts with my look at the PS4's best game (still): Resogun!

  • Steve_Perry 6 Jun 2014 13:46:40 4,146 posts
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    Have a rant at them on twitter. The account manager will shit their pants and put you in touch with the right person.

    VIVA STEFANSEN

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