EG Diplomacy game Page 20

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  • RedSparrows 1 Apr 2013 15:07:17 22,215 posts
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    Why did AH agree to a draw?
  • DFawkes 1 Apr 2013 15:11:54 22,757 posts
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    It's called Diplomacy. We all Diplomacised! Pretty well, too :)

    I'd kick the living daylights out of the producers of Tipping Point - Ghandi

  • macmurphy 1 Apr 2013 15:14:20 999 posts
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    Cheers to everyone in game 2, especially Xer3es for staying honest and helping the greasy Italians even when he probably didn't have to.

    Cheers Andy for organising it all, had a good time. Will probably be busy for a few weeks but will get involved again soon.
  • andytheadequate 1 Apr 2013 15:51:15 8,108 posts
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    Certainly looks an interesting game! I think Game 1 will be going into the end game soon, and it's looking like it might be a 3 way draw.

    Once all the games have finished we can see who is up for another game, maybe switching the players up a bit...
  • RedSparrows 1 Apr 2013 16:16:25 22,215 posts
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    Game 3 could soon develop into stalemate, tbh. Or total annihilation...
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 1 Apr 2013 16:21:44 37,662 posts
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    I think that's my fault for missing Friday's turn. Me and Germany had a good thing going and I totally lost my advantage because of it.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • fillip 1 Apr 2013 17:26:35 890 posts
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    A four way draw in Game 2. You are all really nice people.

    Austria looks particularly generous. They made a pretty good fist of developing their territory.

    From a neutrals point of view, they could have won it with Italy alone quite easily. But I have no idea of the politics that carved the map up.
  • Xerx3s 2 Apr 2013 09:01:11 23,944 posts
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    macmurphy wrote:
    Cheers to everyone in game 2, especially Xer3es for staying honest and helping the greasy Italians even when he probably didn't have to.

    Cheers Andy for organising it all, had a good time. Will probably be busy for a few weeks but will get involved again soon.
    Honest. Heh. Yeah sure. I tricked pretty much every player.

    /will burn in hell

    As for the proposal to draw...sure, Italy/macmurphy and me could have continued and most likely defeated the rest but it would be a long drawn out fight, especially with our lack of fleets in the north. And its nice if everybody has a good time so a draw was simply easier and more preferable.
  • mal 2 Apr 2013 09:08:01 22,407 posts
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    Fuck me, just two games and you're on 20 pages already?

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • DFawkes 2 Apr 2013 09:18:58 22,757 posts
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    3 games! It was fun too. Don't think I'll do it again though, but I'd definitely recommend it to others :)

    I'd kick the living daylights out of the producers of Tipping Point - Ghandi

  • Xerx3s 2 Apr 2013 09:20:21 23,944 posts
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    As for the politics. I'll give a bit of insight.

    First I (Austria) tried to create an alliance with Russia (and lesser degrees France). Russia was being vague at best which lead me to suspect that he already had an alliance with turkey (which would be logical). So that didn't work out.

    I then went on to immediately make and alliance with France, Italy and Germany. We divided the map. France would take the UK and south west. Germany the north east (and would help me attack Russia). Italy and me would take on the south east.

    I then got turkey in the mix to attack Russia as well. 3 forces attacking Russia at once was too much. Russia was dead.

    The UK was never in the game and fell quickly.

    Then me and Italy systematically drove back turkey.

    I soon saw that we would win this and that Germany would become very strong. Not taking a chance, I decided to strike at Germany before he was ready. Considering my work with Italy on turkey, we were the ones truly working together.

    As a diversion/troop movement/build capacity, Italy took several of my territories. I then used this to convince France that Germany and Italy were working together. At the same time, Italy was working on Germany. This resulted in a split enemy that we were able to break.
  • DFawkes 2 Apr 2013 09:24:35 22,757 posts
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    Xerx3s wrote:
    I then used this to convince France that Germany and Italy were working together.
    What? Like heck you did! At no point did I think Italy was working with anyone except you :p Despite you saying otherwise, your reluctance to attack Italy in a position where you could've convinced me you were in league with each other, but there was nothing I could do about it.

    I'd kick the living daylights out of the producers of Tipping Point - Ghandi

  • fillip 2 Apr 2013 10:38:21 890 posts
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    Sounds like a nice amiable draw then ;)
  • Xerx3s 2 Apr 2013 10:44:29 23,944 posts
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    DFawkes wrote:
    Xerx3s wrote:
    I then used this to convince France that Germany and Italy were working together.
    What? Like heck you did! At no point did I think Italy was working with anyone except you :p Despite you saying otherwise, your reluctance to attack Italy in a position where you could've convinced me you were in league with each other, but there was nothing I could do about it.
    If you stuck with Germany, you could have won. Which is why it was absolutely crucial for me that you attacked him.
  • DFawkes 2 Apr 2013 10:51:43 22,757 posts
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    I couldn't have stuck with Germany though, Italy was the key point. I needed someone to take on Italy. Germany were kind enough to offer some help, but that just wouldn't have been enough. What was happening in the North was almost irrelevant with Italy hanging so close to a lot of my most important supply points.

    That's one thing I did enjoy about it - looking a the game at certain points (roughly 1902) and you wouldn't think Italy would be so vital in destroying me (as it was going that way) but they were the main force that I had to contend with. Who knows what the UK would've done too - would they have went for me? Germany? Could I have convinced them to send some Fleets to Italy? Who knows.

    That's the thing I miss the most - the UK could've made it so much more intriguing. I also still feel bad about starting war with Germany. I won't be doing that again, should I ever muster up the necessary bastardry to play again.

    I'd kick the living daylights out of the producers of Tipping Point - Ghandi

  • Waffleaber 3 Apr 2013 16:33:01 387 posts
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    Got my first message in a week earlier, I'm not surprised given my single fleet can't really be a help/threat to anyone!
  • andytheadequate 3 Apr 2013 16:45:39 8,108 posts
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    @DFawkes - I know what you mean, our game was ruined slightly when Redlander took over from Cubby for a turn, but then didn't submit any orders. At that point he had 4 units left, and could have kept at least 3 of them for quite a few turns. But as he was a no show, Italy and Turkey took all of his territories off him. Still, at least it wasn't from the start though.

    Our game is in the end game now, just Italy, France and Turkey left. It will end in either a 3 way draw or with 2 nations ganging up on the third one.
  • DFawkes 3 Apr 2013 17:06:18 22,757 posts
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    I wonder where our no-show is? He hasn't posted at all on EG since his first turn. I hope he's okay, I am a bit genuinely concerned now. Same on twitter, nothing for over a week.

    I'd kick the living daylights out of the producers of Tipping Point - Ghandi

  • Salaman 3 Apr 2013 17:23:00 18,952 posts
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    Waffleaber wrote:
    Got my first message in a week earlier, I'm not surprised given my single fleet can't really be a help/threat to anyone!
    They weren't just messaging you to taunt you were they?
  • Alastair 3 Apr 2013 17:53:10 15,565 posts
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    Waffleaber wrote:
    Got my first message in a week earlier, I'm not surprised given my single fleet can't really be a help/threat to anyone!
    Not a threat, just a mild annoyance! ;)

    Not as nice as I used to be

  • Salaman 4 Apr 2013 08:52:52 18,952 posts
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    Bah ... can't get on the website for the first time since we started this game. Annoying as Germany made a cunning move that snatched a supply centre away and I need to destroy a unit. I'm not sure what the game will do if I don't manage to get on for picking which one.
    :-/
  • andytheadequate 4 Apr 2013 23:25:20 8,108 posts
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    I think game 1 has come to an end (just waiting on Italy to decide on whether to accept the draw or not).

    France - 13 supply centres
    Turkey - 11 supply centres
    Italy - 10 supply centres

    I (France) was in a strong alliance with Italy since turn 1. I'm not convinced that I would have been able to continue the game without at some point turning on him (he was between me and Turkey), and I don't think my conscience would let me do that...

    Still, I really enjoyed the game. I did find that it became less fun as more nations were knocked out though, the victory condition seems to be too difficult to achieve...
  • Salaman 5 Apr 2013 00:44:11 18,952 posts
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    I saw there's a game option that youncan be allowed to build anywhere. Wouldn't that help some?
    You could capture a supply centre, then build there a forge on.
    Still, 18 is quite a steep challenge, I agree.

    Edited by Salaman at 10:15:38 05-04-2013
  • McGeeza 5 Apr 2013 00:46:08 929 posts
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    Agreed. The highlight was definitely the 'diplomacy' before the game had even started, and the nervous twitching over the first few turns.

    For a game with no random elements at all, it still feels incredibly unfair, because even if only two other players gang up on you, you're basically fucked, unless someone else offers to help.

    I was at a disadvantage anyway, as videogames have taught us to distrust russians. :D
  • fillip 5 Apr 2013 07:59:12 890 posts
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    The SC target is set at 18 to discourage draws. When you are down to two players you're never that far off that total and one of the players is bound to have gaps where land grabs can be made. It can be a brutal game.

    As for the unfairness of ganging up, the actual tactics and moves aren't really the game at all. It's the deals and pacts that are made out of the game. Assuming everyone is equal and there are no friends/family etc playing then if you have been ganged up on you just haven't been as good at negotiating or reading what various countries needs will be.

    Most alliances are cautious normally. You agree a peace but always leave some form of deterent. Something to minimise the damage should allegiances shift.

    That said, I really enjoyed falling into an alliance where I felt I could trust my partner. But this was the first game I've ever played where I felt that I could do that.
  • AcidSnake 5 Apr 2013 09:30:09 7,233 posts
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    After my blowout yesterday I've calmed down considerably...

    It was my fleet movement not being accepted that did it...Must have clicked wrong or something otherwise I'd have had a viable counterattack...

    I agree it was the most fun in the first few turns...After that it just became way too slow for very simple moves...
    Also I'm still convinced that the only way to win is being a huge backstabber, which is hardly what I want out of a game...

    Felt horrible after my first backstab and the other alliance I broke too (even though that one was quite inevitable)...

    So it's been fun, but I won't play again...

    AcidSnake - He can't see your sig, avatar, images or vids and talks about himself in the third person because he's proper old-skool...UID 24017

  • andytheadequate 5 Apr 2013 11:12:57 8,108 posts
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    I loved the game in general, will be up for playing again. Maybe we can see who's interested in another game(s) when game 2 (or is it 3?)finishes?

    @mcgeeza - as fillip says, the way of avoiding a back stab is to provide a deterrent as well as negotiating. For example, whilstever Turkey had the Black Sea you're territories were always under threat, even though you were allied. Either suggesting a DMZ to prevent a surprise attack (like me and Italy had in Marseilles and the Western Med), or by having a defended border is the best form of alliance. Most alliances will break if the temptation is too high.

    Also, even if you are attacked by two people early on, you can always try to turn them on each other. E.g. Germany was attacked by me you and Britain, but the next year I turned on Britain and you were attacked by Turkey.

    The other trick to making alliances is to make sure you both have somewhere to expand to. The danger of an Turkish/Russian alliance is that Russia will block off any possible chance to expand if they move too far into the Balkans. Likewise with Britain and France. If Britain wants Holland/ Denmark, then it blocks off France in the north so they will have to turn on Britain eventually. Countries where you can expand in opposite directions seem to be the most natural allies e.g. Italy/France, Austria/Germany.

    @Fillip - was a pleasure being in a strong alliance! Must set some kind of Diplomacy record for the longest aliiance without any lying/backstabbing...

    Edited by andytheadequate at 11:14:48 05-04-2013
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 5 Apr 2013 11:50:15 37,662 posts
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    If I'm right, and Turkey does what I think it will/should, then game 3 is going to get interesting.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • McGeeza 5 Apr 2013 12:05:37 929 posts
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    Yeah I get all that.

    But for me it was clear that Austria & Germany were in an alliance from the start and didn't trust me. I thought I had a trustworthy alliance with Turkey, and UK were an unknown.

    Yes, I could (and probably should) have placed troops along my North & South borders to protect against TUR & UK, but then I would have been weakened in the middle against GER & AUS. But yes, understood that in the long run that gamble didn't work out, as contesting the Black Sea or defending Sevastapol would have discouraged TUR from stabbing.

    Besides, you both (FRA & ITA) had easy rides this game. Were any of your starting regions attacked at all? Let's face it, if everyone hadn't been preoccupied with attacking me, it would have been a different story for you. :D

    Which proves my point really, doesn't it? If either of you had attacked each other's rear, you would have been fucked. Nicely for you, you both stuck to your word and have finished strong.

    Anyway, I don't think we're going to agree.

    Shit game... ;)

    Edited by McGeeza at 12:07:29 05-04-2013
  • andytheadequate 5 Apr 2013 12:13:08 8,108 posts
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    But your alliance with turkey was based purely on trust, whereas ours had a dmz in place. This meant that any backstabbing would have to take place over 2 turns rather than 1.

    And Austria and Germany did decide to attack you but you weathered that fairly easily.

    Edited by andytheadequate at 12:14:18 05-04-2013
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