Sexism and Women in Video Games: Anita Sarkeesian goes to bat for girls Page 4

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  • Deleted user 8 March 2013 15:44:27
    DeCoR wrote:
    Heres a thought, maybe the "enlightened" social engineers of the 60s didn't have it right, didn't have all the answers, and didn't have societies best interests at heart. Maybe all of human history before that point wasn't backwards idiots walking into walls and maybe everybody was happier for it? Nah not liberal enough minus 10 domesticated dick less beta points for me.
    So you think women belong to men and should stay at home, looking after the kids and get the dinner ready?
  • Deleted user 8 March 2013 16:53:46
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  • Deleted user 8 March 2013 17:11:31
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  • Kanjin 8 Mar 2013 19:12:32 1,089 posts
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    I presume most of us here are white, male and probably got more than a couple of pennies to rub together right? If a group thinks they're not as privileged as us, they're probably right.
  • cubbymoore 8 Mar 2013 19:20:58 36,481 posts
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    We should start a white male fundraiser.
  • CosmicFuzz 8 Mar 2013 19:22:50 23,823 posts
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    Kanjin wrote:
    I presume most of us here are white, male and probably got more than a couple of pennies to rub together right? If a group thinks they're not as privileged as us, they're probably right.
    I don't understand what you're saying.

    Episode 5 of our gaming podcast Open Source is a Gamescom Special. Check it out here!

  • brn 8 Mar 2013 21:12:03 230 posts
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    @CosmicFuzz

    He's saying that, presuming that you and the rest of us are white privileged men, those privileges wouldn't be there without us stepping on other groups of people, and we should listen to what these people have to say to restore balance.

    Edited by brn at 21:59:45 08-03-2013
  • sanctusmortis 8 Mar 2013 22:26:48 9,627 posts
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    John Scalzi's famous "Straight White Male is the easiest mode there is" essay

    Give it a read. It's pretty undeniable. I mean, I've had my entire life fall apart in the last 3 years, and ended up 60k in debt (seriously). And I have a roof over my head, clothes, food, cable TV and internet... it's hard to deny that in any way that's not because I started, in Doom terms, with IDDQD and IDKFA on.
  • ecureuil 8 Mar 2013 22:40:42 76,698 posts
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    It's nonsense really though, anyone can have problems in life. It's not as simple as "you're a white male so you have things easy", it's privilege theory bullshit to be honest. The world doesn't work that way. That's not to say in general a larger proportion of white males live more comfortable lives, which is likely the case. These kinds of generalisations don't help anybody.

    Edited by ecureuil at 22:45:58 08-03-2013
  • jonsaan 8 Mar 2013 22:56:28 25,342 posts
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    An awful lot of the games I like the most have no human character at all.

    FCUTA!

  • dominalien 8 Mar 2013 23:06:12 6,848 posts
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    This only makes sense, though (if it makes sense at all; I'm not in a position to judge) where roughly half of the population aren't white males. There are very many places very unlike that, in Europe or otherwise. Not to mention all the places where there are no white males at all, or so few they're practically insignificant. So it is, relatively speaking, a local problem in certain parts of the world.

    Of course, since the US of A basically is what passes for the world these days...

    Multiple edits: I'm not certain about my point, but I'm clearly making no sense at all!

    Edited by dominalien at 23:12:56 08-03-2013

    PSN: DonOsito

  • King_Edward 8 Mar 2013 23:10:45 11,454 posts
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    ecureuil wrote:
    It's nonsense really though, anyone can have problems in life. It's not as simple as "you're a white male so you have things easy"
    That's not the point though. It's that you're less likely to have problems because you're a straight white male than you are for being anything. Which is pretty undeniable, and (you'd think) obvious.
  • ecureuil 8 Mar 2013 23:16:40 76,698 posts
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    Well the point is, you're a white male so you can never complain about anything ever because you're privileged due to your gender and ethnicity. I did already state that white males generally lead a more comfortable life. Everyone should be working together.
  • neilka 9 Mar 2013 00:04:23 15,842 posts
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    I'm pretty sure that being an at least moderately attractive woman is the easiest.
  • sanctusmortis 9 Mar 2013 00:37:35 9,627 posts
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    neilka wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that being an at least moderately attractive woman is the easiest.
    Rape, sexism, objectification... all make it much harder to be a woman.

    And I'm sorry, but if I wasn't a straight white male, I'd be finding it a LOT tougher to survive whilst 60k under. For a start, in countries that aren't predominantly white, I'd be homeless at the least, and possibly in jail in many others.

    Here in the UK all sorts of lovely laws protect me and keep me from sinking under; I can get a debt management plan, for instance, which allows me to pay a charity pittance in exchange for debtors not harassing me for it. And maybe, eventually, one will have the balls to render me bankrupt - absolving me of all my debt in exchange for 6 years of being utterly without credit. Oh dear, how would I cope... Probably by getting on with my life without taking any credit, I suppose, and getting myself back on my feet utterly oblivious to what happened before without ever losing any of the perks of modern society (my TV, internet, mobile phone, possessions). My dad's done it. Twice.

    What do you think happens to the heavily indebted of Kenya? Mexico? Guatemala? Saudi Arabia? India? It's not like this, for sure. There's debtor's jails, homelessness, murder... we have it very, very lucky.
  • mal 9 Mar 2013 00:55:09 22,445 posts
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    But you've got cause and effect completely mixed up. All your personal justifications rely on you being a citizen of a developed country with a history of a welfare state. You could be an asexual purple hermaphrodite in that country and you would still receive almost all of those benefits, no? Granted, being white gives you more probability of having been born in such a country, but you're not likely to be born in such a country because you're white, you're likely to be white because you were born to white parents who were likely to reside in such a country. It's causality in reverse.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • CosmicFuzz 9 Mar 2013 01:18:33 23,823 posts
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    brn wrote:
    @CosmicFuzz

    He's saying that, presuming that you and the rest of us are white privileged men, those privileges wouldn't be there without us stepping on other groups of people, and we should listen to what these people have to say to restore balance.
    I'm sorry but that's absolute garbage. I'm just as entitled to have an opinion as a black person. What the fuck has cultural history got to do with this?

    Episode 5 of our gaming podcast Open Source is a Gamescom Special. Check it out here!

  • Nanocrystal 9 Mar 2013 05:32:35 1,013 posts
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    @CosmicFuzz
    But when the discussion is about racism, a black guy's opinion is going to count for a hell of a lot more than a white guy's, who is likely in the privileged position to have never experienced it first hand and can't possibly appreciate what it feels like to be part of a minority. That's what the idea of privilege is about. Nobody's blaming the white guy for it, it's just how it is.
  • Aretak 9 Mar 2013 07:55:49 10,350 posts
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    sanctusmortis wrote:
    And I'm sorry, but if I wasn't a straight white male, I'd be finding it a LOT tougher to survive whilst 60k under. For a start, in countries that aren't predominantly white, I'd be homeless at the least, and possibly in jail in many others.
    Being fortunate enough to be born in a relatively prosperous country like the UK has nothing to do with the concept of straight white male privilege. There are plenty of predominantly white countries where you'd be immeasurably worse off too. I think you'd have a hard time selling your idea of racial privilege to the poor and indebted of most of the former Soviet states for example.

    Anybody born in a country such as the UK or US has a privileged position over most of the world, regardless of skin colour. It's a seperate issue entirely.

    Edited by Aretak at 07:56:52 09-03-2013
  • SL68 9 Mar 2013 07:59:07 34 posts
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    Males have always made the female body into a sex object. Always have and always will.
  • sanctusmortis 9 Mar 2013 09:49:31 9,627 posts
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    @Aretak but I'd find it a lot easier in Russia than I would in, say, Zimbabwe. Or, indeed, pretty much anywhere in South America. What do you think life is like for the poor in Russia? And Brazil?

    It may be harder in Russia than here, yes. But it's a lot harder in the easiest South American nations than it is in even the poorest SWM-dominated countries. Yes, what country makes a difference - but nowhere NEAR the difference that dominant race, gender and sexuality have.

    And saying a white guy has as good an opinion as a black guy on racial issues is the height of silliness. Can a SWM speak of America's Bloody Sunday the same? The Stonewall riots? Black Panthers, the KKK, Nationalism? No, because they all sheltered him, and demonised The Other.

    Gender's a massive massive part, as any good graph of average pay between genders will attest. as these bar graphs of the US show.
  • sanctusmortis 9 Mar 2013 09:54:14 9,627 posts
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    I also almost forgot one key point - where income disparity is the worst: the poverty line. See, here in the UK, our minimum wage is linked to it; having a job guarantees a quality of life. IF they pay minimum wage, and don't find a way to fiddle their way out. Like apprenticeships. Or paying commission only, which is somehow still legal. In the US, it's even more dire; the minimum wage has been the same for 30 years. Think about that. To be linked with inflation, it needs to be about $10.50; it's $3 less than that, an hour. And if you work in catering and waitressing, you don't even get that; $5 an hour, plus a share of tips. What jobs do you think the down and outs normally get?
  • Inertia 9 Mar 2013 10:13:28 677 posts
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    I do like unfocused observations on this forum. White guys can have as good an opinion as black guys on racial issues as it involves more than one party. An opinion is purely a point of view.

    Men are made into sexual creatures too like women because of biology not society.

    The issue is not that are women equal to men. Which is unanswered by science if you take that as your gold standard but the brain is different according to gender. So the answer is they are different so it may result in a different balance of natural skills. Which anyone with a modicum of alertness would notice is true in the world at large.

    Or maybe, gasp, white men are just better than white women, black men, or any combo you like. But it's not proven this is so. It may well be environmental factors that white people lived or evolved in more temperate regions and had access to more and better resources of food and natural resources for technologies that gave them the edge.

    Over time they created more advanced civilisations. Could the world have ever advanced equally for everyone? It doesn't seem like a law of nature if you wish for that. But things are now evening out more. You can't expect absolute parity overnight in historical terms. But the general consensus is for equality under law and better opportunity for success for many more members of society that are black or female.
  • furkanilbay1 9 Mar 2013 10:16:59 1 posts
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    Thrash.
  • Deleted user 9 March 2013 10:33:06
    I know everything changes, I don't care where it takes us, 'Cus I know how I feel about you

    Can we bring yesterday backaround, 'Cus I know how I feel about you now, I was dumb, I was wrong,I let you down, But I know how I feel about you now
  • Aretak 9 Mar 2013 10:45:24 10,350 posts
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    sanctusmortis wrote:
    @Aretak but I'd find it a lot easier in Russia
    Yeah I stopped reading here, because I knew you'd just bring up Russia rather than, say, Moldova, because it fits your point of view. That's fair enough, you can believe what you want. Let's forget international poverty and get back to the hugely important first world problem of sexism in video games.
  • bad09 9 Mar 2013 11:22:48 5,783 posts
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    SL68 wrote:
    Males have always made the female body into a sex object. Always have and always will.
    It'll upset the feminists but it's actually in our nature to "objectify" women like that because it's how we picked mates back when we were naked monkeys just grunting at each other. Human male sexual arousal is hard-wired into the visual aspects of women. That is why (I'm not joking) men's eyes drift to boobies when talking to women, we can't actually help it as it's an automatic response in our brain. Also why men tend to enjoy porn more than women.

    Edited by bad09 at 11:30:33 09-03-2013
  • sanctusmortis 9 Mar 2013 13:47:18 9,627 posts
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    @Aretak I'm doing a Sociology degree. I am well aware of the issues in eastern Europe, the former Soviet bloc. TBH, I misread your original post, but had the wherewithall to reply and act like a rational human being rather than throw a shit fit.

    You seriously believe that the issues in Eastern Europe aren't matched or indeed pale in comparison to South America? Africa? China? You need to realise there's a very large world out there, and there are areas you never hear from for a reason. One of the first things I learned as part of my degree was to question and then study these areas.

    I don't believe what I want. I study it, and a large variety of academic papers on it. I follow news feeds from Egyptian revolutionaries, have a friend doing ESOL in Libya, others doing similar things in Asia. I see things from multiple sides, attempt to shed my cultural bias, and learn. I watch films like City of God and District 9 (the most thinly disguised Apartheid film ever). I learn.

    If you could try do that, and get your news from outside the mainstream sources like Western papers and websites, you'd see there's a lot out there you simply didn't know.

    As for that last line... please go fuck yourself, you arrogant, selfish prick. If you honestly believe Moldova has it worse than even the favelas of Brazil, you should probably go high five some of your fellow Mens Rights Activists. The world has many issues, and if we can't get our own shit in order, we certainly shouldn't be getting all World Police like we repeatedly do.
  • CosmicFuzz 9 Mar 2013 13:52:51 23,823 posts
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    Nanocrystal wrote:
    @CosmicFuzz
    But when the discussion is about racism, a black guy's opinion is going to count for a hell of a lot more than a white guy's, who is likely in the privileged position to have never experienced it first hand and can't possibly appreciate what it feels like to be part of a minority. That's what the idea of privilege is about. Nobody's blaming the white guy for it, it's just how it is.
    I don't think I can agree with that. You're assuming that as a black person he's suffered racism and that makes his opinion more valid. First that's quite am assumption. And second, of we're agreeing that 'that's how it is', then we're back to the argument of 'what has this got to do with video games'.

    Episode 5 of our gaming podcast Open Source is a Gamescom Special. Check it out here!

  • sanctusmortis 9 Mar 2013 13:54:09 9,627 posts
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    bad09 wrote:
    SL68 wrote:
    Males have always made the female body into a sex object. Always have and always will.
    It'll upset the feminists but it's actually in our nature to "objectify" women like that because it's how we picked mates back when we were naked monkeys just grunting at each other. Human male sexual arousal is hard-wired into the visual aspects of women. That is why (I'm not joking) men's eyes drift to boobies when talking to women, we can't actually help it as it's an automatic response in our brain. Also why men tend to enjoy porn more than women.
    Both sexes do, actually - we see men "globally" and women "locally", regardless of gender.
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