Tropes vs. Women in Video Games Page 11

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  • Mox 29 May 2013 12:49:23 32 posts
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    That one's not so clear-cut, but there are plenty of other common phrasings or sayings that are more obviously gendered. "If she doesn't have the stones for a YouTube comment thread, she should just grow a pair."
  • King_Edward 29 May 2013 12:52:59 11,454 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Has anyone pointed out the irony in "goes to bat" being a sexist expression?

    Sporting analogies are well documented as a way of males subtly excluding females in the workplace.
    But rounders is a girl's sport.
  • TheSaint 29 May 2013 12:54:01 14,397 posts
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    'Goes go goal attack' doesn't have the same ring to it.
  • Tonka 29 May 2013 12:55:35 20,430 posts
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    oconnomiyaki wrote:
    I don't want to respond. I was just curious of her examples. I just don't want to contribute to a crowd-sourced project that brings in advertising revenue as a result. The subject matter is irrelevant.
    oconnomiyaki, fighting the power. Sticking it to the man. The line is drawn.

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

  • TarickStonefire 29 May 2013 14:30:43 3,107 posts
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    FWB wrote:
    They are only drowning out if you choose to listen to them. I seem perfectly capable of navigate the internet without getting bogged down in the shite.

    But back to the issue at hand... as I said, blocking all of us cos of some vocal minority is pretty poor.
    This is about her turning off comments under something she's posted, right? I don't see the problem. Like you say, it can be discussed anywhere. If you think there's a place on the internet you can manage to have a decent discussion without valid, well-made, respectful points from both sides being completely overshadowed by the inevitable warmongering that will go on in between those posts, have at it - and I agree with whoever said that this forum is probably one of those places, discussions do seem to self-regulate well here.

    But if I were her I'd have turned comments off under the post too. Let what she has to say speak for itself. Have the pissing match/mature discussion elsewhere. There's no obligation to invite in the inevitable poisonous comments that folk will be just dying to post.

    Edited by TarickStonefire at 14:35:29 29-05-2013

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • TarickStonefire 29 May 2013 14:32:39 3,107 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Has anyone pointed out the irony in "goes to bat" being a sexist expression?

    Sporting analogies are well documented as a way of males subtly excluding females in the workplace.
    Huh, didn't know that, or notice the irony. On paper, it's certainly ironic. In the context I don't think it matters.

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • kalel 29 May 2013 14:50:58 87,687 posts
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    Yeah I was really trying to shatter the earth with that point.
  • JinTypeNoir 13 Jul 2013 09:17:55 4,386 posts
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    No, sorry, no new Sarkeesian yet. But we live another day, and thus we must have another controversy. Somebody interviewed a guy named Gavin, who is working with Sony's Japan Studio on a game called Puppeteer. In the interview this transcript was posted and much ado was made of sexism once again.
  • Stickman 13 Jul 2013 11:50:38 29,666 posts
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    Trying to have a serious discussion about sexism regarding Picherina being turned into a fairy by the Moonbearking is just fucking ridiculous.

    If sabre rattling about sexism in video games is something you do for a living, you should probably hang yourself.

    THIS SPACE FOR RENT

  • Metalfish 13 Jul 2013 16:05:09 8,818 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Yeah I was really trying to shatter the earth with that point.
    Perhaps more pedantically, referring to women as girls in the title is arguably more sexist if you want to get over-analytic.

    (No points for anyone who points out that similar infantilisation occurs with "boys", I'm afraid.)
  • JinTypeNoir 13 Jul 2013 23:15:36 4,386 posts
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    If you guys want the thrilling back story of the creation of thread title, it came about because after I watched the video something about the way Anita talks reminded me of a cartoon character in Disney's little anime short about the sequel to Casey at the Bat and how he tries to get all his daughters to play baseball so he can live vicariously through them, so I smirked, imagined Anita was the rebellious one and wrote the title.

    Voila! If you've never seen the cartoon though, I suppose it doesn't make any sense.
  • B0rked_Gamer 13 Jul 2013 23:34:59 2,697 posts
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    :/
  • GuiltySpark 14 Jul 2013 03:15:07 6,387 posts
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    Saying sporting expressions are sexist because sports are for males is sexist, women can try and play sports as well yknow.

    Get bent.

  • JinTypeNoir 20 Jul 2013 16:20:21 4,386 posts
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    Alright then. It seems the next scene in this never-ending soap opera is this. Essentially, there is some pretty damning evidence that Anita's using footage from other people's Let's Plays without crediting them or acknowledging it.
  • FatSternKikwi 20 Jul 2013 16:30:36 560 posts
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    All she needed to do was credit her sources. How hard is that?

    If you want to be taken seriously then be professional about it. Dont give the opposition any ammunition.
  • mal 20 Jul 2013 16:46:21 22,554 posts
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    How many of these Lets Plays explicity credit the copyright on the game they're ripping video from?

    Seems more important she's regurgitating existing easily accessible ideas, and producing largely unimpressive videos that aren't significantly better than her pre-kickstarter vids at a ridiculously slow rate. Strikes me as another lazy kickstarter fraud.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • King_Edward 20 Jul 2013 16:58:12 11,454 posts
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    Who gives a shit?
  • JinTypeNoir 20 Jul 2013 17:12:57 4,386 posts
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    Actually, I do. I don't have any problem with people who do videos of copyrighted material, people are way too anal about it in the first place -- though if they take it too far and use it for their livelihood, I think getting permission is really the polite and civil thing to do. Obviously if you're paying the bills by partially using other people's copyrighted material, it's the only decent thing to do since they are partially responsible for the reason you can do it the first place.

    However, I do have quite a problem whenever something comes off as work that they author did, when they actually didn't. It doesn't matter whether that's not claiming you didn't sample something in a song when you clearly did, or actual, real written plagiarism. Since she comes from an academic background, I expect higher standards from her, as I expect the ivory tower would as well.

    But it's not even that so much. Without knowing the full context, it seems like dickish behavior, but its so minor compared to the injustices of sexism that she's fighting. It would be like telling Martin Luther King to watch his language if he was fighting a bigot using racial epithets in a debate, I understand where that comes from, but c'mon.

    What bothers me is that its yet another sign of a lack of professionalism that gives people ammunition to casually discount a real look into sexist attitudes and how to change them. If this all ends in some uberscandal, I'm more worried her lack of scruples in certain areas will end up hurting what she's trying to help.
  • SirScratchalot 20 Jul 2013 20:14:50 7,872 posts
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    Honestly, after what Other M did to Samus I'm all for the most hamfisted feminist analysis of videogames, as long as it ends with everyone agreeing to burn Team Ninja at the stake.
  • JinTypeNoir 26 Jul 2013 15:09:52 4,386 posts
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    Not Sarkeesian, but something related. At a panel at Comic Con about women in media and I guess the panel was called something like "Women Who Kick Ass." All was going pretty well until a bunch of guys started to make some trouble.

    My question is, my perception of the Western idea of nerds is that they were smarter than the rest of the population and despised people like womanizing jocks and such? So then why these signs of sexism in various spots of nerd culture? Obviously this type of behavior shows up in video game culture as well -- E3, esports events, the comments section of an Ellie article. What on earth causes this behavior?
  • Deleted user 26 July 2013 15:19:40
    I think it's something to do with Michelle Rodriguez. Wasn't she at another panel where some guy basically started hitting on her with really creepy questions?

    Nerd culture in general is hilariously misogynist though (not talking about games, but general fandom stuff). Women who do stuff like cosplay or enjoy comics or whatnot are increasingly being viewed as "fake" and just doing it "for attention" or because fandom stuff is (was) a bit en-vogue. There's this kind of odd underlying thing in the culture that women have no business in fandom, especially not ones who dare try to be more dominating than a man.

    There's a nerdy type bar around here that does pinball and arcade games and so on, and even though they desperately try to get women in, it's 99% unwashed neckbeards. You can smell the place from a block away.
  • Deleted user 26 July 2013 15:24:36
    Incidentally, I did discover something quite insidious the other day. There's a group of people calling themselves the MRA who have a theory that more men commit suicide than women because men have a natural need for sex, and women empowering themselves means men can't have sex with them as and when they need to, so they build up anxiety and kill themselves. They directly believe that feminism is responsible for killing men.

    Horrible, horrible people.
  • kinky_mong 26 Jul 2013 15:27:55 10,288 posts
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    Sounds legit.

    All the eurogamers who actually play with each other on xbl rather than just post pseudointellectual pc handwringing bollocks on the forums, love the shit out of biggy.

  • PazJohnMitch 26 Jul 2013 15:31:52 8,051 posts
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    Just because I am an ugly, fat man that no woman would ever want to sleep with does not mean I want to kill myself....




    Fuck....




    Decent point. Well made!
  • Deleted user 26 July 2013 15:32:42
    Iíd love to be a woman, all in all. You get a lot of really nice perks. You can wear any clothing you want (the idea of cross dressing for women doesnít even exist anymore since all the clothing men wear can be relabeled as womenís and size changed and itís now okay to be worn. The only time you get into cross dressing for women is baggy clothing). You can EXPECT others, especially men, to help you with just about anything you need, ranging from opening doors, to taking you out to eat, to providing all lodging and other needs/wants. From there you donít even have to return anything, such as sex. Because you donít owe anyone when they give you stuff and protect your livelihood.

    You get to behave in largely any manner. As a woman I could just say fuck it to the world, get wasted every night (again, have men at a bar buy me drinks), and beat around other people and damage property without honestly expecting to be seriously punished. Especially if Iím drunk and canít be held accountable for my actions! If at any point I really am bothered about something, I can whine about it and have a huge support network.
    Now I admit, Iíd have to look good. But shit, who doesnít want to look good? Iíd have my hair and makeup done up all the time, wearing sexy/cute outfits all the time. Itíd be how I get men interested in men (and perhaps women?) who would pay for everything else I would need, whether I considered it a relationship or not.
    And if things go bad? Well, I can work. And if I canít find a job, thereís always porn for really quick cash or a strip club for not quite as quick cash, but still wonít be fucked or touched, not that as a woman that would be bad. It wouldnít even have to come to that since I could be a waitress if I wanted to play it straight. Thereís often a job for that and if youíre attractive, youíre very likely to get hired. Even better is the tips will be much larger because of that too, and you know Iíd play up my feminine, girly side for those tips.

    Why would you not want to wake up as a woman? The only things I see bad are a period (like thatís going to be so bad).
  • kinky_mong 26 Jul 2013 15:45:31 10,288 posts
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    A Germaine Greer quote?

    All the eurogamers who actually play with each other on xbl rather than just post pseudointellectual pc handwringing bollocks on the forums, love the shit out of biggy.

  • sanctusmortis 26 Jul 2013 15:45:33 9,631 posts
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    meme wrote:
    Iíd love to be a woman, all in all. You get a lot of really nice perks. You can wear any clothing you want (the idea of cross dressing for women doesnít even exist anymore since all the clothing men wear can be relabeled as womenís and size changed and itís now okay to be worn. The only time you get into cross dressing for women is baggy clothing). You can EXPECT others, especially men, to help you with just about anything you need, ranging from opening doors, to taking you out to eat, to providing all lodging and other needs/wants. From there you donít even have to return anything, such as sex. Because you donít owe anyone when they give you stuff and protect your livelihood.

    You get to behave in largely any manner. As a woman I could just say fuck it to the world, get wasted every night (again, have men at a bar buy me drinks), and beat around other people and damage property without honestly expecting to be seriously punished. Especially if Iím drunk and canít be held accountable for my actions! If at any point I really am bothered about something, I can whine about it and have a huge support network.
    Now I admit, Iíd have to look good. But shit, who doesnít want to look good? Iíd have my hair and makeup done up all the time, wearing sexy/cute outfits all the time. Itíd be how I get men interested in men (and perhaps women?) who would pay for everything else I would need, whether I considered it a relationship or not.
    And if things go bad? Well, I can work. And if I canít find a job, thereís always porn for really quick cash or a strip club for not quite as quick cash, but still wonít be fucked or touched, not that as a woman that would be bad. It wouldnít even have to come to that since I could be a waitress if I wanted to play it straight. Thereís often a job for that and if youíre attractive, youíre very likely to get hired. Even better is the tips will be much larger because of that too, and you know Iíd play up my feminine, girly side for those tips.

    Why would you not want to wake up as a woman? The only things I see bad are a period (like thatís going to be so bad).
    That is some amazing stuff there. They should watch this.
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 26 Jul 2013 15:46:31 38,210 posts
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    Haha, I hope that's supposed to be a joke :)

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • Mr_Sleep 26 Jul 2013 16:00:21 17,067 posts
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    @JinTypeNoir the shifting of gender roles is probably part of that reaction, what that article doesn't specify that well is as to whether there is general heckling at overunning events. To me that sounded like a pretty small and not significant thing. There will always be dicks at these sort of events so I am not convinced it was an anti-woman thing.

    Your larger question is a good one, why is there such a negative reaction to women enjoying and wanting to be involved in so-called geek culture is a strange one.

    Edited by Mr_Sleep at 16:01:01 26-07-2013

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • Ged42 26 Jul 2013 16:01:33 7,732 posts
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    I don't know whether to send the guy Meme quoted to a brothel, a shrink or a gender reassignment surgeon.

    Edited by Ged42 at 16:02:50 26-07-2013
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