Why have the white British left London? Page 10

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  • crispyduckman 21 Feb 2013 19:10:04 1,856 posts
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    RedSparrows wrote:
    Dangerous_Dan wrote:
    @simsini You are witnessing the decline of (western) civilization. Immigration and things like that are just one small part of a much bigger development. Don't try to argue. Lean into the wave and use it.
    What absolute tosh.
    Maybe he means it's the end of our old civilization and archaic ways. We're at the dawn of a new era where we're all citizens of the world.

    PSN/XBL/Steam/Origin: crispyduckman

  • RedSparrows 21 Feb 2013 19:13:12 22,241 posts
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    Quite possibly. It's still tosh.
  • crispyduckman 21 Feb 2013 19:30:25 1,856 posts
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    RedSparrows wrote:
    simsini wrote:
    @RedSparrows Perhaps unchecked was the wrong word, but I would mainly say unlimited numbers from within the EU and the government not knowing how many illegal immigrants are in the country.

    It will only get worse next year when Bulgarian and Romanian citizens come here in huge numbers.
    I don't mean any offence, but you really do sound like you are speaking without knowing quite what you're referring to.

    I don't necessarily have an issue with you disliking immigration. My annoyance more comes from these kinds of blanket statements. It also ignores emigration (of anyone, including immigrants) and logical things like illegal immigrant count: how can you know exactly when they are here illegally? The terms of discussion are so warped and vague as to be purely emotive, and that never helps - even though the emotion is also important.
    Also, it's a bit optimistic to think our governmental would accurately know how many illegal immigrants we have. I mean, they are illegal after all.

    In any event, why is simsini talking about illegal immigrants in the same context as legal free movement in the EU? They are two wildly different things.

    Given the fact that the UK is often historically to blame for the foreign conflict/poverty/general clusterfuck that immigrants are often fleeing from, isn't it only fair we try and let some of them in?

    PSN/XBL/Steam/Origin: crispyduckman

  • Dangerous_Dan 21 Feb 2013 19:33:37 2,380 posts
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    RedSparrows wrote:
    Dangerous_Dan wrote:
    @simsini You are witnessing the decline of (western) civilization. Immigration and things like that are just one small part of a much bigger development. Don't try to argue. Lean into the wave and use it.
    What absolute tosh.
    Aha. Of course it is - you don't have the slightest idea what I am talking about and discard it immediately.

    Tell me this.
    Is immigration a good thing?
    Is it good for everybody?
    Are there limits to how fast this immigration should happen?
    If there are limits, then why is that?
    Are there advantages to having no immigration?
    What are the goals of our society?
    Who is making up those goals? Are there people who make an opinion and people who take an opinion? Are those people who take the opinion in the realm of 99%?
    Don't think in terms of reatarded slogans - what does it mean?
    What is culture? Is having a passport being a member of a culture?
    Should there be different cultures?
    Who has to gain from one unified culture worldwide and how would that culture look like?
    Are there disadvantages to having a culture which is ready to accept everybody, not only immigrants but everybody as long as he's compliant? What's the cost of living in such a culture?

    You'd have to ponder those question for weeks or months but I presume you don't have time for that shit. You see, most people don't take the time for it but then I'd expect some sense of reality - not some emotional feel-good about myself and the world because I belong to the 'good guys'.

    But then again you also think you are about arguing and discussion - the kind of arguing where people have to agree with you - yeah that's the point of it, that's how you refine yourself. Have a good day.
  • crispyduckman 21 Feb 2013 19:43:26 1,856 posts
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    Dangerous_Dan wrote:
    RedSparrows wrote:
    Dangerous_Dan wrote:
    @simsini You are witnessing the decline of (western) civilization. Immigration and things like that are just one small part of a much bigger development. Don't try to argue. Lean into the wave and use it.
    What absolute tosh.
    Aha. Of course it is - you don't have the slightest idea what I am talking about and discard it immediately.

    Tell me this.
    Is immigration a good thing?
    Is it good for everybody?
    Are there limits to how fast this immigration should happen?
    If there are limits, then why is that?
    Are there advantages to having no immigration?
    What are the goals of our society?
    Who is making up those goals? Are there people who make an opinion and people who take an opinion? Are those people who take the opinion in the realm of 99%?
    Don't think in terms of reatarded slogans - what does it mean?
    What is culture? Is having a passport being a member of a culture?
    Should there be different cultures?
    Who has to gain from one unified culture worldwide and how would that culture look like?
    Are there disadvantages to having a culture which is ready to accept everybody, not only immigrants but everybody as long as he's compliant? What's the cost of living in such a culture?

    You'd have to ponder those question for weeks or months but I presume you don't have time for that shit. You see, most people don't take the time for it but then I'd expect some sense of reality - not some emotional feel-good about myself and the world because I belong to the 'good guys'.

    But then again you also think you are about arguing and discussion - the kind of arguing where people have to agree with you - yeah that's the point of it, that's how you refine yourself. Have a good day.
    I've smoked enough weed to know the answers to all of those questions. I wrote them down somewhere. I'll have a look for them after I finish this kebab.

    PSN/XBL/Steam/Origin: crispyduckman

  • disusedgenius 21 Feb 2013 19:43:55 5,271 posts
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    Do you think those questions make your inane ramblings self-evident or something?
  • Deleted user 21 February 2013 19:48:23
    Cultural flattening only really happens when a gigantically large entity assimilates a smaller one, and even then it still takes decades, centuries even, and still with a lot of noise and attention. Otherwise there'd be no disparate cultural communities within England itself - North and South (and even city to city) are radically different in culture.
  • crispyduckman 21 Feb 2013 19:59:48 1,856 posts
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    I went to Manchester for business and my client there put ice in his lager. Blew my fucking mind.

    PSN/XBL/Steam/Origin: crispyduckman

  • skuzzbag 21 Feb 2013 20:00:49 5,638 posts
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    I don't think I've seen so many retarded questions all in one place before.
  • Moot_Point 21 Feb 2013 20:01:10 3,960 posts
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    meme wrote:
    Cultural flattening only really happens when a gigantically large entity assimilates a smaller one
    Like the EU assimilating England.

    ================================================================================

    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • Tonka 21 Feb 2013 20:05:05 20,167 posts
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    It's funny how white supremacist like to talk about a unified European culture a if there was such a thing. Makes me think they haven't seen much of the world.

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

  • Tonka 21 Feb 2013 20:05:30 20,167 posts
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    And by funny I mean sad.

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

  • crispyduckman 21 Feb 2013 20:12:24 1,856 posts
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    Moot_Point wrote:
    meme wrote:
    Cultural flattening only really happens when a gigantically large entity assimilates a smaller one
    Like the EU assimilating England.
    Or the Borg.

    PSN/XBL/Steam/Origin: crispyduckman

  • Deleted user 21 February 2013 20:14:02
    Moot_Point wrote:
    meme wrote:
    Cultural flattening only really happens when a gigantically large entity assimilates a smaller one
    Like the EU assimilating England.
    Yes, damn that EU, with its flat cultures. France is just like Germany nowadays, and don't get me started on how Italy is basically the same as Sweden.
  • RedSparrows 21 Feb 2013 20:14:34 22,241 posts
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    Dangerous_Dan wrote:
    RedSparrows wrote:
    Dangerous_Dan wrote:
    @simsini You are witnessing the decline of (western) civilization. Immigration and things like that are just one small part of a much bigger development. Don't try to argue. Lean into the wave and use it.
    What absolute tosh.
    Aha. Of course it is - you don't have the slightest idea what I am talking about and discard it immediately.

    Tell me this.
    Is immigration a good thing?
    Is it good for everybody?
    Are there limits to how fast this immigration should happen?
    If there are limits, then why is that?
    Are there advantages to having no immigration?
    What are the goals of our society?
    Who is making up those goals? Are there people who make an opinion and people who take an opinion? Are those people who take the opinion in the realm of 99%?
    Don't think in terms of reatarded slogans - what does it mean?
    What is culture? Is having a passport being a member of a culture?
    Should there be different cultures?
    Who has to gain from one unified culture worldwide and how would that culture look like?
    Are there disadvantages to having a culture which is ready to accept everybody, not only immigrants but everybody as long as he's compliant? What's the cost of living in such a culture?

    You'd have to ponder those question for weeks or months but I presume you don't have time for that shit. You see, most people don't take the time for it but then I'd expect some sense of reality - not some emotional feel-good about myself and the world because I belong to the 'good guys'.

    But then again you also think you are about arguing and discussion - the kind of arguing where people have to agree with you - yeah that's the point of it, that's how you refine yourself. Have a good day.
    'Decline of Western civilisation' = tosh to me. It presupposes you ascribe importance to the theory of a distinct, discrete civilisation that can be deifined as Western at a level that's actally any use - be it theoretical or otherwise, etc and so forth. I should have made that that was the part that I disagree with, specifically. Apologies for that.

    As for your wider questions - of course they take time to consider (well some do. Some are self-evidently superficial: i.e. the passport question). I don't see how that has any impact in the slightest on your supposition that 'western civilisation' is in 'decline', without you elucidating on your theme.

    But then, apparently you can be as condescending and as presumptious as I dared to be, so I'm not entirely sure I'm worth your bothering. I must be unable to see the point of discussion in the interest of talking about concepts, conceits and problems, rather than as a purely political tool.

    Edited by RedSparrows at 20:17:38 21-02-2013

    Edited by RedSparrows at 20:21:33 21-02-2013
  • Deleted user 21 February 2013 20:19:57
    There seems to be this bizarre train of thought running here that cultures are utterly alien to each other and impenetrable and that only one can ever exist at a time, despite the fact that you can have European, British, English, County, City and even suburban cultures all overlapping and even integrating whilst remaining broadly distinct. It's quite weird.
  • Moot_Point 21 Feb 2013 20:24:06 3,960 posts
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    meme wrote:
    Moot_Point wrote:
    meme wrote:
    Cultural flattening only really happens when a gigantically large entity assimilates a smaller one
    Like the EU assimilating England.
    Yes, damn that EU, with its flat cultures. France is just like Germany nowadays, and don't get me started on how Italy is basically the same as Sweden.
    I thought the Swedish people had more sense than the Italians!

    ================================================================================

    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • crispyduckman 21 Feb 2013 20:26:01 1,856 posts
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    @RedSparrows Are you saying he's wrong or that you don't know what he's talking about? Because, I have no idea what he's talking about or what he's trying to say. When this happens on the internet, I just make up something nice in my mind and pretend that's what he meant. Naturally, it's usually something about kittens.

    To me this thread is a beautifully articulated intellectual debate, punctuated with soft cuddly animals.

    PSN/XBL/Steam/Origin: crispyduckman

  • Deleted user 21 February 2013 20:27:19
    I presumed he was trying to insinuate that multiculturalism and immigration leads to a flattening of culture, and that Eastern immigration into the West would inevitably cause Western society to dry up and vanish.

    Which is, frankly, bobbins.
  • RedSparrows 21 Feb 2013 20:32:30 22,241 posts
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    I think he's talking about discussions of immigration as being part of a wider direction of society, that, on a so-broad-as-to-be-tricksy global level, is witnessing a shift in the balance of power. And then there's hints of NWO stuff, but I wouldn't wish to ascribe that to anybody unless they actually claim it for themselves. AND THEN there's a glib brush off of glib moralism in favour of...what? I'm not sure.

    I'm probably totally wrong, however. Who knows!

    Edited by RedSparrows at 20:33:27 21-02-2013
  • RedSparrows 21 Feb 2013 20:34:11 22,241 posts
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    Moot_Point wrote:
    meme wrote:
    Moot_Point wrote:
    meme wrote:
    Cultural flattening only really happens when a gigantically large entity assimilates a smaller one
    Like the EU assimilating England.
    Yes, damn that EU, with its flat cultures. France is just like Germany nowadays, and don't get me started on how Italy is basically the same as Sweden.
    I thought the Swedish people had more sense than the Italians!
    What are you going on about now?
  • crispyduckman 21 Feb 2013 20:38:39 1,856 posts
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    meme wrote:
    There seems to be this bizarre train of thought running here that cultures are utterly alien to each other and impenetrable and that only one can ever exist at a time, despite the fact that you can have European, British, English, County, City and even suburban cultures all overlapping and even integrating whilst remaining broadly distinct. It's quite weird.
    Literally everything you eat, wear, do and think has been transferred on to you from one culture or another at some point.

    Edit: That came out a bit wrong. I mean everyone is already an amalgamation of multiple different cultures.

    Edited by crispyduckman at 20:51:23 21-02-2013

    PSN/XBL/Steam/Origin: crispyduckman

  • Deleted user 21 February 2013 21:02:01
    crispyduckman wrote:
    meme wrote:
    There seems to be this bizarre train of thought running here that cultures are utterly alien to each other and impenetrable and that only one can ever exist at a time, despite the fact that you can have European, British, English, County, City and even suburban cultures all overlapping and even integrating whilst remaining broadly distinct. It's quite weird.
    Literally everything you eat, wear, do and think has been transferred on to you from one culture or another at some point.

    Edit: That came out a bit wrong. I mean everyone is already an amalgamation of multiple different cultures.
    Yeah, exactly. Levi Jeans being popular in the UK is culture from Germany by way of the US, f'r instance. Culture constantly evolves and overlaps, but still remains distinct. It's more distinct gestalts than unique standalone entities, I suppose. Like how DNA chains are made up of just four proteins.
  • Jazzy_Geoff 21 Feb 2013 21:09:31 7,767 posts
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    sweatyBallacks wrote:
    @crispyduckman You gotta get away. Any self-respecting, cultured man would have plans to get away from the country as soon as possible. For a start, I can earn a lot more in Brazil teaching English. Also, what's ludicrous is the cost of owning your own home. What's the average mortgage deposit now in London? 40,000?? Fucking insane and insulting.

    You'd have to be a millionaire to buy a decent home and provide for two kids living in London, seriously.
    i'm about to exchange on a four bed house in Acton. it was not cheap. Acton ffs.
  • Metalfish 21 Feb 2013 21:09:32 8,818 posts
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    *Cough* Bases, not proteins *cough*
  • Deleted user 21 February 2013 21:11:49
    I'll base your protein, you ruffian.
  • Jazzy_Geoff 21 Feb 2013 21:14:56 7,767 posts
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    also Levi jeans have got sweet fuck all to do with Germany
  • Deleted user 21 February 2013 21:19:41
    Except for Levi Strauss being a German and taking the idea from German clothes, you're right. But that's beside the point, it was a simplified and throwaway example. Change it to deep-pan pizza being American by way of Italy and Greece if you like.

    /cue some nonce nitpicking that too
  • Jazzy_Geoff 21 Feb 2013 21:56:51 7,767 posts
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    Post deleted
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 21 Feb 2013 22:00:41 37,681 posts
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    Mmmm pizza.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

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