Windows 95 vs Console Gaming ? Page 3

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  • GiarcYekrub 12 Feb 2013 13:59:45 3,768 posts
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    *Non standardised controler unless you like mouse and keyboard
    *1000+ for a gaming spec machine
    *People prefer to play on a sofa with a TV rather than a desk with a PC
    *Platform holders have a vested interest marketing consoles
    *Console exclusives
    *The ease to setup and play on console, on win95 trying to get a DOS game to run was a chore
    *Win 95 wasn't very stable Illegal Operations a plenty
    *Piracy
    *Hardware outdated fast
  • DodgyPast 12 Feb 2013 18:10:48 8,468 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    DB is right though, there's a niche market for streaming your desktop to a tv and piping back inputs like controls.
    In theory Thunderbolt could be used to offer a solution for this as it can do very long cable runs and support USB as well as hdmi.

    Edited by DodgyPast at 18:12:49 12-02-2013
  • Dirtbox 12 Feb 2013 18:21:24 78,165 posts
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    No it couldn't, a proprietary socket on a macbook is of no use to anyone who wants to play games.

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  • AaronTurner 12 Feb 2013 18:21:30 7,736 posts
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    I think there needs to be a definition of "pcs destroying consoles for gaming". One large aspect of gaming is seriously deficient on PCs and that is ease of use. There is a huge amount of people that have no desire in tweaking graphics settings to gain fps or fiddling with hardware and drivers. These people aren't even technically deficient either.
  • Dirtbox 12 Feb 2013 18:23:48 78,165 posts
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    You'll be happy to learn that most games configure themselves these days then. And there are things like Geforce Experience that sets the ones that don't to the optimal settings for your PC. It updates your drivers too, as does Steam and Windows Update.

    http://www.geforce.com/drivers/geforce-experience

    Edited by Dirtbox at 18:25:08 12-02-2013

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  • mal 12 Feb 2013 18:32:47 22,532 posts
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    Of course, one of the reasons you needed to spend more on a PC in 1995 than a console is that a console only ran at SD resolutions, while iirc 1024x768p was already quite a common resolution on PCs by then - and that's over 5 times the bandwidth (2.5 times the resolution and twice the field rate).

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • DodgyPast 12 Feb 2013 18:33:21 8,468 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    No it couldn't, a proprietary socket on a macbook is of no use to anyone who wants to play games.
    Thunderbolt is a data transport technology from Intel, even if Apple were involved it's likely to be well supported in time, Should be quite convenient since it can route 10GBs of different types of data to different devices over the same cable.

    Edited by DodgyPast at 18:35:39 12-02-2013
  • Dirtbox 12 Feb 2013 18:38:18 78,165 posts
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    Yeah, I see what you're saying, but it's nowhere near being the wireless extender gaming box yet. Needing a cable longer that the current maximum thunderbolt cable length of 2 meters for a start. Anything longer is as yet video only.

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  • Deleted user 12 February 2013 18:40:48
    Nice!
  • DodgyPast 12 Feb 2013 18:50:58 8,468 posts
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    www.fcp.co/hardware-and-software/pro/805-20-metre-and-30-metre-optical-thunderbolt-cables-from-sumitomo
    Fully functioning optical cables have just started to hit the market and attaching it to something like this would be nice.
    http://www.belkin.com/us/thunderbolt

  • Dirtbox 12 Feb 2013 18:53:17 78,165 posts
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    You realise that cable would cost more than the computer it's running from, right?

    Like I said, it's not there yet and isn't going in the right direction. That Belkin box is spot on though, it's just a shame it's made by Belkin.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 18:55:40 12-02-2013

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  • DodgyPast 12 Feb 2013 19:05:07 8,468 posts
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    Yeah, I know it's ridiculously expensive now, but has potential if they can get the costs down. Especially since it's ideal for gaming especially for controllers and video due to low latency.

    Hope it does take off so more effort is done on finding cool uses for it.
  • Fake_Blood 12 Feb 2013 19:11:27 4,209 posts
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    1920x1080x32x60fps is a lot of data to transmit wirelessly.
    Maybe one could do it with those power socket lan things.
  • Lexx87 12 Feb 2013 19:23:46 20,869 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    I think there needs to be a definition of "pcs destroying consoles for gaming". One large aspect of gaming is seriously deficient on PCs and that is ease of use. There is a huge amount of people that have no desire in tweaking graphics settings to gain fps or fiddling with hardware and drivers. These people aren't even technically deficient either.
    It's really not like that anymore, it's loads better

    Speak the truth hussy!

  • Rodney 12 Feb 2013 19:35:28 1,892 posts
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    Lexx87 wrote:
    AaronTurner wrote:
    I think there needs to be a definition of "pcs destroying consoles for gaming". One large aspect of gaming is seriously deficient on PCs and that is ease of use. There is a huge amount of people that have no desire in tweaking graphics settings to gain fps or fiddling with hardware and drivers. These people aren't even technically deficient either.
    It's really not like that anymore, it's loads better
    I think it has castly improved but its still a barrier of entry to many people. And I still see forum posts from people who have problems with PC games not working properly or optimally because of their set up/configuration.
  • Deleted user 12 February 2013 20:09:40
    Perception is a bigger problem than reality. It's probably about as much hassle as either of the consoles now with their issues with online connections and connecting audio leads etc.
  • disusedgenius 12 Feb 2013 20:17:54 5,325 posts
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    I was going to say. If you have to go beyond downloading and running a new driver (which would normally update itself anyway) then it's quite an outlying case.
  • Chopsen 12 Feb 2013 20:42:44 15,983 posts
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    Rodney wrote:
    Lexx87 wrote:
    AaronTurner wrote:
    I think there needs to be a definition of "pcs destroying consoles for gaming". One large aspect of gaming is seriously deficient on PCs and that is ease of use. There is a huge amount of people that have no desire in tweaking graphics settings to gain fps or fiddling with hardware and drivers. These people aren't even technically deficient either.
    It's really not like that anymore, it's loads better
    I think it has castly improved but its still a barrier of entry to many people. And I still see forum posts from people who have problems with PC games not working properly or optimally because of their set up/configuration.
    I had to edit an xml config file in notepad to get farcry 3 to work at all the other day.
  • bad09 12 Feb 2013 20:52:03 5,903 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    Perception is a bigger problem than reality. It's probably about as much hassle as either of the consoles now with their issues with online connections and connecting audio leads etc.
    It really isn't perception but these days it is down to developers more than the platform, there are still many games that you need to tweak stuff or turn off an option to run optimally.

    True it is a lot easier though, the majority of games pretty much configure themselves nowadays (although sometimes you still need to tweak) and with Nvidia cards you are now even getting "Geforce Experience" which (while buggy as fuck in beta) is frankly a great piece of software for new PC gamers or those unsure of how best to configure a game for their system as it will do it for you.

    Edited by bad09 at 20:52:34 12-02-2013

    Edited by bad09 at 20:53:52 12-02-2013
  • DrStrangelove 12 Feb 2013 21:12:11 3,947 posts
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    I was just wondering - in your opinion, why did Windows 95 and DirectX not completely destroy console gaming?
    Maybe because Win95 was busy destroying itself most of the time?

    Nah, consoles offered something different. You know, playing Mario, Sonic, Zelda, etc. on your TV. A lot of the time, with your friends in the same room, not online. Consoles were better at a lot of things, better multiplayer, cheaper system (although games were incredibly expensive), etc. Another important point is that almost all games were platform-exclusives. They were either for Nintendo, for Sega, for Sony, or for Windows (they never were for Mac).

    PC was cool in its own right, but it was different. It couldn't replace consoles.

    Actually, today it can easier replace consoles than back in the time, because many PCs have TV outputs, and there has been a massive shift from exclusives to cross-platform games, so most of the games are also available on PC--in superior quality, usually. They don't, though.

    Mobiles and tablets won't replace consoles either. There are just too many people who want to have a "full" non-casual gaming experience, with controls that aren't all too compromised, and preferably on a big TV.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 21:15:27 12-02-2013

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 21:18:39 12-02-2013
  • Dirtbox 13 Feb 2013 08:08:55 78,165 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    1920x1080x32x60fps is a lot of data to transmit wirelessly.
    Maybe one could do it with those power socket lan things.
    That already exists in the form of WiDi, Asus has a Wicast box that can do exactly that. It still leaves the issue of controllers or keyboards and whatever though.

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  • DodgyPast 13 Feb 2013 17:46:23 8,468 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Fake_Blood wrote:
    1920x1080x32x60fps is a lot of data to transmit wirelessly.
    Maybe one could do it with those power socket lan things.
    That already exists in the form of WiDi, Asus has a Wicast box that can do exactly that. It still leaves the issue of controllers or keyboards and whatever though.
    Wired and wireless inputs and outputs everywhere to a server that could run multiple sessions in multiple rooms then I'll be happy... Oddly enough given how compute resources are growing horizontally I could believe we'll see the ability to do this, and it'll be on PC first.
  • Dirtbox 13 Feb 2013 18:15:20 78,165 posts
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    Nope, a server is still another computer sat in the same room as you and completely defeats the object.

    If that Belkin box had 1080p, 60hz WiDi and routed the USB stuff through the regular network than perfect. Nothing else will really do.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 18:18:32 13-02-2013

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  • Fake_Blood 13 Feb 2013 18:20:02 4,209 posts
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    What's the latency like on these widi things?

    Anyway I've given up and put my new rig next to the tv/receiver.
    No more keyb/mouse gaming for me.
  • Deleted user 13 February 2013 18:27:59
    bad09 wrote:
    Aargh. wrote:
    Perception is a bigger problem than reality. It's probably about as much hassle as either of the consoles now with their issues with online connections and connecting audio leads etc.
    It really isn't perception but these days it is down to developers more than the platform, there are still many games that you need to tweak stuff or turn off an option to run optimally.

    True it is a lot easier though, the majority of games pretty much configure themselves nowadays (although sometimes you still need to tweak) and with Nvidia cards you are now even getting "Geforce Experience" which (while buggy as fuck in beta) is frankly a great piece of software for new PC gamers or those unsure of how best to configure a game for their system as it will do it for you.

    Edited by bad09 at 20:52:34 12-02-2013
    I haven't needed to do anything other than press install for about 5 years, even then the answer to the issue was both obscure and easily solved. Games don't need tweaking but can be if you're that way inclined.

    It isn't that hard to change settings from high to medium to make them run better.
  • Dirtbox 13 Feb 2013 18:29:46 78,165 posts
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    Fake_Blood wrote:
    What's the latency like on these widi things?

    Anyway I've given up and put my new rig next to the tv/receiver.
    No more keyb/mouse gaming for me.
    1ms according to the blurb, any more than that and Id probably ignore it's existence.

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  • Deleted user 13 February 2013 18:32:18
    DrStrangelove wrote:
    Mobiles and tablets won't replace consoles either. There are just too many people who want to have a "full" non-casual gaming experience, with controls that aren't all too compromised, and preferably on a big TV.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 21:15:27 12-02-2013
    No reason why they can't. There are plenty if full non casual games out for them and its still in a very infant stage. They've done enough so far for me to have no interest in a handheld console, give it 5 years and I might not need/want a console or PC because devs have worked out decent control schemes for most genres.
  • Bremenacht 13 Feb 2013 18:40:26 18,242 posts
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    This discussion reminds me of this device which I read about a few weeks back. Imagine if it had gaming-quality capability. You could plug it into any USB-connected screen and go. Of course, you'd need a handy KB+M in your pocket too.

    I suppose it's rather similar to Raspberry Pi really.

    Edited by Bremenacht at 18:41:54 13-02-2013
  • Dirtbox 13 Feb 2013 18:44:20 78,165 posts
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    I've seen similar things to that before, early prototypes of Raspberry Pi worked in similar fashion. If something like Splashtop or Citrix can be put on it and run at low latency and a decent framerate then it has a chance of working, but that software isn't really ready for it yet and that thing is likely to be a little underpowered to deal with prolonged full screen streaming.

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  • DodgyPast 13 Feb 2013 19:14:28 8,468 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Nope, a server is still another computer sat in the same room as you and completely defeats the object.

    If that Belkin box had 1080p, 60hz WiDi and routed the USB stuff through the regular network than perfect. Nothing else will really do.
    I was more thinking along the lines of a server tucked away in a cupboard somewhere but with something like Thunderbolt wired into the house like electricity... Use that to deliver high bandwidth low latency I/O anywhere... Sort of like your own OnLIVE server.
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