Windows 95 vs Console Gaming ? Page 2

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  • Khanivor 9 Feb 2013 17:59:56 40,772 posts
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    There's also the small issue of PC games, (back then) being a lot more complicated and demanding, something which scared off the mouth-breathers who at that point could only cope with a couple of buttons and a d-pad and gameplay no more complex than steer, run, shoot and jump.

    Edited by Khanivor at 18:00:15 09-02-2013
  • superdelphinus 9 Feb 2013 18:06:13 8,060 posts
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    Not just mouth breathers, pretty much anyone who wasn't a speccy twat
  • Bremenacht 9 Feb 2013 18:06:48 18,275 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    It surprises me that no one has put serious work into a proper streaming solution to get an office pc into the living room. Missed potential galore there.
    Citrix? (etc)
  • Bremenacht 9 Feb 2013 18:07:52 18,275 posts
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    superdelphinus wrote:
    Not just mouth breathers, pretty much anyone who wasn't a speccy twat
    I WAS A SPECCY TWAT, YOU TWAT

    /waves puny undernourished fist
  • mal 9 Feb 2013 18:20:01 22,550 posts
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    Have you ever tried playing Virtua Fighter on a keyboard? I have.

    Also, the only time you would get four of us round one computer was for Micro Machines, when each player only needed three keys. Granted, you could have one or two people on joystick, but PC joysticks in those days always had four little rubber suckers on the bottom, so unless you had a massive desk or a second table in view on the monitor, that doesn't help much.

    Much easier to just head downstairs and switch on the SNES.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Dirtbox 9 Feb 2013 18:33:33 78,204 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    Citrix? (etc)
    Framerate is far too low for gaming and it's not really streaming as you need a PC plugged into the TV to deliver the picture. Same for the alternatives. Plus there is a little too much latency involved for it to be viable for anything more intensive than fairly slow paced.

    If there were a commercially available, cheap box that you could plug USB devices and the TV into then it would sell like hot cakes. Onlive hosted in your own home with your own games.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 18:45:46 09-02-2013

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  • Deleted user 9 February 2013 18:39:55
    Khanivor wrote:
    There's also the small issue of PC games, (back then) being a lot more complicated and demanding, something which scared off the mouth-breathers who at that point could only cope with a couple of buttons and a d-pad and gameplay no more complex than steer, run, shoot and jump.
    Thank you for reminding me of the horror of having to hunt for boot disks just so I could have the correct XMS/EMS values.

    Bastard.
  • Deleted user 9 February 2013 18:42:58
    Horror? Autoexec tweaking was half the fun of 90s PC gaming.
  • Bremenacht 9 Feb 2013 18:56:23 18,275 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Bremenacht wrote:
    Citrix? (etc)
    Framerate is far too low for gaming and it's not really streaming as you need a PC plugged into the TV to deliver the picture. Same for the alternatives. Plus there is a little too much latency involved for it to be viable for anything more intensive than fairly slow paced.

    If there were a commercially available, cheap box that you could plug USB devices and the TV into then it would sell like hot cakes. Onlive hosted in your own home with your own games.
    I didn't understand what you meant by "get an office pc into the living room". I thought you meant having a thin client for office work on your telly or something like that.
  • Dirtbox 9 Feb 2013 18:57:41 78,204 posts
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    I meant stream the display to the TV while keeping your PC wherever it lives in your house without having to worry about wires and whatever.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 20:32:35 09-02-2013

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  • LeoliansBro 9 Feb 2013 19:02:35 44,245 posts
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    I love PC games.

    I can't stand playing games on a PC.

    This is one reason why XCOM was such a triumph.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • jonsaan 9 Feb 2013 19:07:39 25,352 posts
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    It's because playing a game on PC often involves having to sort your PC out first. Especially if you are not gaming on it every day.

    Consoles have totally caught up in this respect now though. Fire up your PS3 and download updates, clear space and fuck about before you get to play anything.

    Back then though, you stuck a cart in and played hard. PC was much more of a commitment.

    Edited by jonsaan at 19:08:15 09-02-2013

    FCUTA!

  • dsmx 9 Feb 2013 19:49:30 7,604 posts
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    Back in 95 I was playing transport tycoon and to this day I still play transport tycoon, chris sawyer created a hell of a game back then and it's even more astonishing what he coded it in.

    "If we hit that bullseye the rest of the dominoes will fall like a a house of cards, checkmate." Zapp Brannigan

  • graysonavich 9 Feb 2013 19:52:15 7,353 posts
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    jonsaan wrote:
    It's because playing a game on PC often involves having to sort your PC out first.
    What are the 5 steps you need to do to sort out your PC to load up a game?
  • mal 9 Feb 2013 19:55:21 22,550 posts
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    Back in 85 I was playing Chuckie Egg, and to this day I still play it, though to be fair it's a bit trickier (though quicker) to get running these days.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • mal 9 Feb 2013 19:59:19 22,550 posts
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    jonsaan wrote:
    Consoles have totally caught up in this respect now though. Fire up your PS3 and download updates, clear space and fuck about before you get to play anything.
    Damn right. I've still got the two games I first installed on my 360's hard disc when I got it installed, because I've not been bothered to uninstall them ever to free up space. Having to buy a memory card when you got a console was bad enough.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Fake_Blood 9 Feb 2013 20:19:11 4,211 posts
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    Anyone else used norton commander in those days?

    Edited by Fake_Blood at 20:51:05 09-02-2013
  • Dirtbox 9 Feb 2013 20:31:44 78,204 posts
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    Norton Disk Tools. Hard to believe they were actually good once.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 20:31:51 09-02-2013

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  • mal 9 Feb 2013 20:51:17 22,550 posts
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    I've seen people using Norton Commander style disc viewers recently. It just boggles the mind now, especially now DOS has got pushd and popd.

    Edited by mal at 20:51:32 09-02-2013

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Fake_Blood 9 Feb 2013 20:54:40 4,211 posts
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    Hell, even mcafee was good once.
    Anyhow, don't remember a lot of win95 gaming, win98 is where directx started taking off.
  • Dirtbox 9 Feb 2013 21:30:04 78,204 posts
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    Diablo, X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter, there were even a couple of Megaman games.

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  • skuzzbag 9 Feb 2013 21:36:44 5,644 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    It surprises me that no one has put serious work into a proper streaming solution to get an office pc into the living room. Missed potential galore there.
    Do you mean streaming just the office components or the entire OS too?
  • Cosquae 9 Feb 2013 22:48:24 1,223 posts
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    meme wrote:
    Horror? Autoexec tweaking was half the fun of 90s PC gaming.
    The other half was tweaking config.sys
  • Maturin 9 Feb 2013 22:53:19 3,000 posts
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    Getting games to run in HIMEM. I remember spending half a day trying to get Falcon 3.0 to run.
  • Destria 9 Feb 2013 23:11:47 2,835 posts
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    I still shudder at the trouble I used to have trying to get Wing Commander 2 to run. Or pretty much any game that had sound, needed a CD ROM drive, AND needed a mouse.

    "What do you mean 'Not enough Conventional Memory'? I've got 6 megs of the stuff... stop loading the bloody MSCDEX.EXE in the 640k conventional memory you stubborn twat and use some of that glorious higher memory!"
  • Dirtbox 10 Feb 2013 00:01:03 78,204 posts
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    skuzzbag wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    It surprises me that no one has put serious work into a proper streaming solution to get an office pc into the living room. Missed potential galore there.
    Do you mean streaming just the office components or the entire OS too?
    Games. I've clarified above.

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  • JinTypeNoir 10 Feb 2013 00:38:04 4,386 posts
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    Even though Windows 95 made it easier, there were still quite a lot of nightmares. I remember a lot of games ran in DOS shells and the remnants of DOS still cast quite a shadow on a lot of software. I remember there being a Windows mode and a DOS mode for King's Quest VI and loving the DOS mode a lot more. Also, stuff like Ultima and System Shock could be infuriatingly cantankerous with different system setups. And then how about stuff like Master of Magic or Darklands? Oh sure, we remember them as classics NOW, but when those games first came out before patches they were so buggy and annoying its a wonder they became as well-remembered as they did.

    I remember one of the best pre-Baldur's Gate RPGs of that era of PC gaming was Betrayal at Krondor. Yes, it wasn't strictly a Windows 95 game, but it ran well in 95 and 98 and I seem to remember it being one of the most popular of that era. If more games like that came along, PC gaming might have a quicker rise to their current state as "decisively not, in any way, shape or form, dead." It would have also helped if Baldur's Gate had been Baldur's Gate II in quality and not as mediocre a first attempt as it was. And if Lucasarts' run of crowd-pleasing classics hadn't ended. And if Sierra hadn't imploded around that time.

    That said, the real reason is because until Valve (and I'm no fan of Steam, so I'm not evangelizing here) kind of united PC gaming in a direction, there wasn't really a banner for marketing PC gaming under. Everyone did their own thing and it added up to greatness, but you had to follow it all on your own. Whereas on consoles, Nintendo and Sony were savvy marketers who provided a very focused and concentrated marketing message that spread the news out.

    Some of the best PC game experiences, even in the advent of Windows 95, had interfaces that were like to translating Egyptian hieroglyphics. (The very height of this had to be stuff like Robinson's Requiem and that German RPG trilogy that I think started with Trail of Stars.) And coming from Japan, people wonder how I can speak English so well. Well, you try hunting around on messageboards with limited English in the days of dial-up searching for a solution and hoping your mom or dad don't notice you high-jacked the phone line.
  • mal 10 Feb 2013 00:54:56 22,550 posts
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    The thread title's a bit misleading - direct X didn't turn up till service pack 2, and even then it was a bit of a joke until at least Win 98 as I recall. Add to that the fact (as I recall) that Win 95 ran on top of the DOS kernel, even if it didn't actually include a full edition of the DOS tools in it's 'compatability mode'. A large proportion of PC devs continued to build games on top of DOS and largely ignore Windows for quite a long time into the Win95 era, hence the continued configuration nightmares at times.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • liohuffman 12 Feb 2013 12:58:47 25 posts
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    Answering my own question here, but I have to remind myself that PCs and consoles are at much more of a parity today than they were during the Windows 95 era.

    As I recall, the average desktop PC was huge & expensive at the time (most people didnít own laptops back then) whereas consoles were comparatively small / cheap / underpowered (the N64/PS1 didnít even need cooling fans), so it wouldíve been difficult for PCs to realistically provide an equal experience in the living room (not to mention the hassle of then connecting it to a CRT TV).


    By contrast, todayís PCs / laptops have become much smaller, cheaper and power-efficient (see: netbooks / the Intel NUC prototype), the TVs/monitors more similar, and the consoles much larger / noisier / comparatively more expensive than their predecessors (the PS3 hasnít fallen in price or size as much as the PS1/PS2 did) so it probably wouldnít be that much of a stretch to see a PC in place of a console beneath the TV any more.

    In fact, thatís exactly what the Steam box intends to be, and in a sense so will the PS4 / Xbox Durango (I could be wrong, but I heard they will both come with standard AMD x86 processors?)


    I guess the prophecy came true, but just 15 years late!

    Edited by liohuffman at 13:01:22 12-02-2013
  • Fake_Blood 12 Feb 2013 13:18:48 4,211 posts
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    DB is right though, there's a niche market for streaming your desktop to a tv and piping back inputs like controls.
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