How long before Apple die? Page 4

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  • nickthegun 30 Jan 2013 09:46:19 59,492 posts
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    I think its genuinely because people are stupid. Take the front page for example. Any Apple feature has idiots falling over themselves to post such gems as 'Huurrrr apple suxxx' and then stand around sucking each others dicks and downvoting any positive apple comments.

    There is, in fact, such an article on there at the moment.

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    He totally called it

  • UncleLou Moderator 30 Jan 2013 09:47:06 35,508 posts
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    TarickStonefire wrote:
    If you could just point out on the chart which major tech company isn't suing another major tech company for something that most normal people think is utterly ridiculous, please?
    Not a tech company, but Toyota. They have so many patents (and in Japanese) that everyone else is scared to death to try anything with them. :p

    Apart from that, yeah. I don't mind people being clueless about what's going on in the world of patent infringement, I just wish they'd stop having a vocal opinion about it. It just makes them look so foolish.
  • TarickStonefire 30 Jan 2013 09:48:20 3,045 posts
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    jablonski wrote:
    I've been waiting for a decent Mac Pro revision (yes, the tower machine, not the Fisher Price VHS/DVD combo imacs) for 4 years. If it doesn't appear soon I'm going to switch to a PC or Hackintosh, as I desperately need it for work.

    I've always been happy with the power of the iMacs, personally, so I guess it depends on what you do (although that's still no reason to superciliously dismiss iMacs as Fisher Price toys), but I read the reason the Mac Pro has gone so long it may as well have died completely is that there hasn't been an appropriate upgrade to the chip family it uses that would warrant a redesign?

    But then like I say I don't even know what people use them for (that's not a criticism, I genuinely don't know how they are used and what they are needed for) so I don't know how valid a reason that is.

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • El_MUERkO 30 Jan 2013 09:49:52 16,975 posts
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    @jablonski

    The Pro can't have a decent refresh partly because Intel have won the CPU war with AMD and have slowed technological advancement to milk their monopoly position.

    Unless some miracle happens at AMD or another chip maker decides to target the desktop market I can't see things improving in the short term.

    One possible hope is the demand for hardware that can drive the 4k monitor & TV
  • TarickStonefire 30 Jan 2013 09:53:52 3,045 posts
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    UncleLou wrote: I don't mind people being clueless about what's going on in the world of patent infringement, I just wish they'd stop having a vocal opinion about it. It just makes them look so foolish.
    This is it for me too, I look at what's going on with patents and it's just a minefield that no single opinion can ever really hope to straddle objectively. For one thing I do totally believe that if you come up with a really cool way of doing something, it's shitty when another company goes, "aye aye, that's way better than our shitty method, we're having it wholesale" and then makes out like it's all their own work. But at the same time there aren't that many entirely new processes out there that really deserve that sort of protection, especially when it comes to software design. And of course hat's not really how a lot of patents are being used anyway.

    The fuckers that waited till IAPs were established and then went to all the smalltime iOS devs and threatened to put them out of business unless they paid up to use a patent that I'm pretty sure everyone reasonably expected was theirs to use because Apple had said so, I hope they rot in hell.

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • Tonka 30 Jan 2013 09:54:05 20,222 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    TarickStonefire wrote:
    Steve_Perry wrote:

    I wouldn't hate apple half as much if it wasn't for the scientology esque ramblings of a vocal minority of their customers. Die apple hipsters. Die.
    That appears to be the reason for a sizeable chunk of the hate. It's kind of pathetic as a reason to 'hate' a company.
    Its also massive bullshit. Apples audience is now so broad all the old, lazy stereotypes dont really apply to it. The only reason people complain like this about apple is because they cant afford their products.
    Hence vocal minority. Personally I find it hard to read Daring Fireball without getting a nosebleed.

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

  • nickthegun 30 Jan 2013 09:55:24 59,492 posts
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    The pro can have a decent refresh. It could easily have new logic board architecture, a new set of ports at the front, a new range of graphics cards running in sli....

    They have just left the machine to rot as they are no longer even a little interested in the professional market.

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  • TarickStonefire 30 Jan 2013 09:59:26 3,045 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Longer term though, nobody is safe. Giants of industry can topple extremely quickly if they fail to read the writing on the wall as we've seen a lot of recently, and Apple are in absolutely no way invincible. Literally no brand is - even the likes of Coke and Nike who appear to be evergreens put incredible amounts of work into keeping their position.

    Be interesting to see how this new Apple smart television thing is going to go down.
    I agree about Nike, because shoes are fashion and fashion changes. But I had a think about Coke, and I'd say all they really do, and need to do, is keep producing new adverts. Now that's a big business, but that's why Coke is run by advertising people and not product people.

    In fact, isn't that widely considered the problem with Scully at Apple? Wasn't he at Pepsi or something? Over time wasn't the problem with him that he didn't see the value in working on the products so much as churning out more and more variations to advertise to more and more people, assuming that that was all they needed to do while in fact they diluted the brand to almost an almost unfixable point?

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • TarickStonefire 30 Jan 2013 10:01:42 3,045 posts
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    @Tonka Gruber can be such a twat, but I don't think he's in the same camp as the one Steve Perry so colourfully described. There's nothing scientology-esque about the stuff he writes, it actually makes a lot of sense if you get over the 'ha, told you so' attitude he exudes (and on his income, can afford to exude, the shit).

    Any Netflix library in the world for a couple of quid a month? Gimme!

  • jablonski 30 Jan 2013 10:04:01 3,826 posts
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    There's a proper refresh coming this year, according to the more trustworthy sources.
  • Mr-Brett 30 Jan 2013 10:05:19 12,774 posts
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    TarickStonefire wrote:
    Aargh. wrote:
    What do you mean since when? The company was valued at 80bn and is now 8bn and sales have collapsed. That, in the business world, is the same ballpark.
    Sure you don't mean that growth has slowed? Sales collapsing is so far from anything I've seen them report in the last couple of quarters that I maintain you are just looking for an Apple fight.

    If you weren't, you wouldn't be using such emotive and misleading and innacurate buzzy phrases like "their sales collapsed". Jesus, it's like you believe that if you wish hard enough and long enough and get enough people to join in, you can will them to an early grave.
    He's talking about RIM which you'd know if you weren't too distracted looking for an Apple defence ;)

    Portable view - Never forget.

  • nickthegun 30 Jan 2013 10:07:30 59,492 posts
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    The only refresh its had recently is one that nobody can see. They made the internals more modular and easier to work on and, by the looks of it, cheaper to manufacture.

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  • jablonski 30 Jan 2013 10:08:06 3,826 posts
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    TarickStonefire wrote:
    jablonski wrote:
    I've been waiting for a decent Mac Pro revision (yes, the tower machine, not the Fisher Price VHS/DVD combo imacs) for 4 years. If it doesn't appear soon I'm going to switch to a PC or Hackintosh, as I desperately need it for work.

    I've always been happy with the power of the iMacs, personally, so I guess it depends on what you do (although that's still no reason to superciliously dismiss iMacs as Fisher Price toys), but I read the reason the Mac Pro has gone so long it may as well have died completely is that there hasn't been an appropriate upgrade to the chip family it uses that would warrant a redesign?

    But then like I say I don't even know what people use them for (that's not a criticism, I genuinely don't know how they are used and what they are needed for) so I don't know how valid a reason that is.
    They use them for proper creative work, not looking at Facebook and lolcats.
    3D, rendering compositing, colour correction, motion graphics etc.

    Imac is ok for web and graphic design, but not very upgradeable and not powerful enough.

    Saying that, most post houses are all PC now. Apple have made it clear they don't give two shits for the pro market.
  • nickthegun 30 Jan 2013 10:10:20 59,492 posts
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    Mr-Brett wrote:
    He's talking about RIM which you'd know if you weren't too distracted looking for an Apple defence ;)
    I know its not the point that being made but RIM was an entirely different gravy. They had a single product portfolio that they steadfastly refused to change.

    Apple has quite a diverse range of products, especially with the TV coming out, so if the arse falls out of one, its not entirely the end of the world.

    See how they handled the spotify threat. Rather than ignoring it, they launched their own cloud music service.

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  • nickthegun 30 Jan 2013 10:11:16 59,492 posts
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    Since they gimped final cut, avid must be rubbing their hands together.

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  • Zizoo 30 Jan 2013 10:14:09 8,283 posts
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    Edited by ZizouFC at 10:14:41 30-01-2013
  • jablonski 30 Jan 2013 10:33:21 3,826 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Since they gimped final cut, avid must be rubbing their hands together.
    Premiere are picking up the customers surprisingly.
  • nickthegun 30 Jan 2013 10:35:32 59,492 posts
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    Makes sense I suppose. They dont have the 'YOU MUST HAVE ZIS CONFIGURATION OR VEE VILL NOT OFFER SUPPORT, YAH?' approach to customer service.

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  • tincanrocket 30 Jan 2013 11:00:14 2,947 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    The pro can have a decent refresh. It could easily have new logic board architecture, a new set of ports at the front, a new range of graphics cards running in sli....

    They have just left the machine to rot as they are no longer even a little interested in the professional market.
    And this is where I think they are missing a trick.

    You woo the consumer market and persuade them to buy your phone, and these consumers then (in my experience) switch to using Apple laptops and/or desktops at home. These consumers are (probably) working (they can afford the apple tax, lolz), so if you offered them a decent corporate option, the chances are you would start to see an uptake in the corporate environment. Since they decommissioned the X-Serve, I have actually found the Mini to be a reasonable server for most uses (internal wikis, small to mid-scale project websites etc.) - the new Server App is very (almost too) straightforward, and the documentation is shockingly bad, but it is actually pretty powerful and far more approachable than Snow Leopard Server.

    If I was at Apple I would be seriously looking at Enterprise-level cloud based server solutions for corporations, with integration between iOS devices and desktop machines and servers. It is the one area in which they have an untapped market. And there are certainly gains to be made, particularly with the Windows 8 mis-step that has meant several companies have started to at least consider looking at alternative software options.

    /2p
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 30 Jan 2013 11:00:47 37,849 posts
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    Speaking of RIM I seem to remember reading the next release of the BlackBerry Enterprise Server software will support Android phones, not just BlackBerry handsets.

    Seems RIM have realised there's a market for companies who want encrypted, secure mobile email solutions but don't want their shitty handsets.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
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  • nickthegun 30 Jan 2013 11:04:26 59,492 posts
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    Speaking as a sys admin, its too little too late on that front when you can just use active synch and iPhone management studio rather going through the time, hassle and vast expense of deploying a blackberry solution.

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  • nickthegun 30 Jan 2013 11:10:56 59,492 posts
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    tincanrocket wrote:
    snip
    Lion Server is a good example of the approach they are taking. if you look on the app store Lion Server has loads of five star reviews from n00bs saying 'omg! I cant believe its so easy to set up a server!' and loads of one star reviews from IT professionals saying 'omg! I cant believe they gimped their server software!'.

    It is absolutely *insane* to sell server software that you then have to download the power management tools. As you say, the server panel is fine for basics but to have to physically say 'why the fuck is server admin and workgroup manager missing?' and then google, find the download and then install them is just madness.

    Its, basically, the reason everyone has moved to windows servers, especially since apple have made reasonable steps in joining the desktops to an AD domain.

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    He totally called it

  • kalel 30 Jan 2013 11:11:01 87,001 posts
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    TarickStonefire wrote:
    I agree about Nike, because shoes are fashion and fashion changes. But I had a think about Coke, and I'd say all they really do, and need to do, is keep producing new adverts. Now that's a big business, but that's why Coke is run by advertising people and not product people.
    There's so much more to it than this, and and Coke is in no way run by advertising people. They have an extremely aggressive acquisition policy as well as their own R&D, and constantly release new brands and products to keep the company at the top - energy and sports drinks, health drinks, water etc etc.

    Beyond that their provider contracts with the likes of McDonalds and Burger King, Cinema chains etc etc are a crucial part of staying on top.

    And that's just scratching the surface of what they do. So so much more than just producing adverts.
  • LeoliansBro 30 Jan 2013 11:12:32 43,818 posts
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    Coke don't just sell Coke.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Mr-Brett 30 Jan 2013 11:13:26 12,774 posts
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    MrTomFTW wrote:
    Speaking of RIM I seem to remember reading the next release of the BlackBerry Enterprise Server software will support Android phones, not just BlackBerry handsets.

    Seems RIM have realised there's a market for companies who want encrypted, secure mobile email solutions but don't want their shitty handsets.
    IIRC Blackberrys use a modified version of Android anyway and it's relatively easy to get Android apps running on them.

    I think RIM is a good example of how a company can lose a massive chunk of market share but doesn't make a good comparison for Apple.

    Portable view - Never forget.

  • nickthegun 30 Jan 2013 11:18:00 59,492 posts
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    It takes a lot of work to make it so automatic:


    Two pints of Heineken and a diet coke please?

    is pepsi ok?

    Uhm... yeah... I suppose

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  • RyanDS 30 Jan 2013 11:21:12 9,257 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    TarickStonefire wrote:
    I agree about Nike, because shoes are fashion and fashion changes. But I had a think about Coke, and I'd say all they really do, and need to do, is keep producing new adverts. Now that's a big business, but that's why Coke is run by advertising people and not product people.
    There's so much more to it than this, and and Coke is in no way run by advertising people. They have an extremely aggressive acquisition policy as well as their own R&D, and constantly release new brands and products to keep the company at the top - energy and sports drinks, health drinks, water etc etc.

    Beyond that their provider contracts with the likes of McDonalds and Burger King, Cinema chains etc etc are a crucial part of staying on top.

    And that's just scratching the surface of what they do. So so much more than just producing adverts.
    Unless you travel the third world you don't understand the scale of the coke brand. it's when you travel around South Africa, Nigeria, some parts of the Caribean and Romania that you see just how incredibly aggressive they are with their advertising. Most cafes and small shops are just branded coke with just a little personalised bit in the corner.

    Not to mention the Gods must Be Crazy.
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 30 Jan 2013 11:24:53 37,849 posts
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    Last time I worked with BlackBerrys they had some kind of abomination of an OS built in JavaScript. I didn't think that's how Android was built...

    Anyway, nick is probably right with "too little, too late", but I think BES is a good solution for large organisations and I think RIM may believe they can reposition themselves without the handsets.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
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  • Zizoo 30 Jan 2013 11:25:32 8,283 posts
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    :)

  • Tonka 30 Jan 2013 14:31:08 20,222 posts
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    @Popzeus What is it that people find difficult with Android phones? What version are you running?

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

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