The referendum on the United Kingdom's membership within the EU Page 3

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  • Fab4 23 Jan 2013 09:55:12 6,083 posts
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    I love my mum but she has old-school Xenophobia down to a tee. I have to keep reminding her that her own son (I) is a job-stealing 'foreigner' to a lot of people. Also, I don't think she's ever had a bad experience with a 'foreigner' in recent years. One of her best neighbours were a young Romanian family who still keep in touch with her, even after they moved houses, and some of the scum who were born there (in Belfast) couldn't work in a fit. Still, she thinks that there are too many foreigners.
  • Fake_Blood 23 Jan 2013 09:55:17 4,215 posts
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    It would be sad to see you guys leave, but I respect a nation that has the balls to simply ask it's inhabitants what they want.
  • boo 23 Jan 2013 09:57:20 11,786 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Sid-Nice wrote:
    I remember the last referendum on whether we should join the Common Market on the 09/06/1975 1 day before my 18th birthday.
    Youre nearly 60?
    If memory serves correctly, Sid is the EG equivalent of 'Father Of The House'.

    Just Another Lego Blog

  • LeoliansBro 23 Jan 2013 09:57:22 44,309 posts
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    DaM wrote:
    mowgli wrote:
    The British public voting on anything to do with the EU just fills me with dread.
    Me too. It's the first decent argument for Scottish independence.
    It's not even that. And worth noting that an independent Scotland isn't a part of the EU either.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 23 Jan 2013 09:59:04 39,458 posts
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    There is a simple answer to this. Make sure the conservatives don't win the next election.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Chopsen 23 Jan 2013 09:59:22 16,020 posts
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    I was thinking about the implications of the Scottish referendum re this as well. The timing of things puts the Scottish vote before the British/English/UK/whatevers thing. There has been doubt already cast on the question if Scotland would automatically get EU membership if it did devolve. Then we really would have border patrols with Scotland :). Would it have to sign up to the Schengen area?

    It's fucking mental.

    Edited by Chopsen at 09:59:36 23-01-2013
  • LeD 23 Jan 2013 09:59:47 6,300 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    I would actually like to see England withdraw from everything. From the united kingdom, europe, the commonwealth and that other one.. the UN or whatever.

    See how you like us then, cunts.
    I vote for this guy. That's the spirit!
  • LeoliansBro 23 Jan 2013 10:00:30 44,309 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    There is a simple answer to this. Make sure the conservatives don't win the next election.
    You think Labour will 'overrule the people's right to decide for themselves'? That's election cyanide.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • DaM 23 Jan 2013 10:00:50 13,247 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    DaM wrote:
    mowgli wrote:
    The British public voting on anything to do with the EU just fills me with dread.
    Me too. It's the first decent argument for Scottish independence.
    It's not even that. And worth noting that an independent Scotland isn't a part of the EU either.
    That's still up in the air...but I agree, it's not a straightforward as the SNP would like everyone to believe. The point is Scotland is a pro-European country and would continue to be so.
  • Chopsen 23 Jan 2013 10:02:04 16,020 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    There is a simple answer to this. Make sure the conservatives don't win the next election.
    They scraped in and have a fair bit of stick while in power (which is not surprising). So there's hope. It may even be something that gets eased out of the agenda if they get back in by having to form another coalition.
  • MetalDog 23 Jan 2013 10:02:36 23,697 posts
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    Has to be said, the Scottish are making a better job of governing than our lot at the moment. The last year or so for the first time in my life I've been genuinely tempted to move back there.

    I would miss the Poles though, many of them up north? They bring good food, great accents and could give any scot a run for their money on the drinking abilities.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • mcmonkeyplc 23 Jan 2013 10:02:58 39,458 posts
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    This is going to effect the economy right now as well. We'll see foreign investment decline due to uncertainty about what we're doing.

    The EU and US are starting negotiations for a free trade area. How are we going to fit into that?

    The fucking retard is just playing to his polling figures. None of this is in the national interest. Their budget cutting I can stand I even understand it, that is in our national interest but this is nothing but partisan bullshit.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • jellyhead 23 Jan 2013 10:03:19 24,350 posts
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    @mcmonkeyplc I have my fingers crossed that they don't.

    This signature intentionally left blank.

  • LeoliansBro 23 Jan 2013 10:05:09 44,309 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    I was thinking about the implications of the Scottish referendum re this as well. The timing of things puts the Scottish vote before the British/English/UK/whatevers thing. There has been doubt already cast on the question if Scotland would automatically get EU membership if it did devolve. Then we really would have border patrols with Scotland :). Would it have to sign up to the Schengen area?

    It's fucking mental.
    It's a pretty awe-inspiring thing if you think it through. For instance Scotland doesn't have a standing army either, or any armed forces. It has no ambassadors or formal relations with any other country. It will be forced to accept trade tariffs at a huge disadvantage (as the alternative is isolation). It lacks much of the central bureaucracy of a country. In fact, it has no presence on the international stage at all.

    And then there's the question of what kind of country it looks like as a standalone. Ignore its georgraphic location, and instead note how underdeveloped it is. Few cities, only two of any size, no motorways north of Edinburgh, and an economy built on oil, tourism and salmon.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Chopsen 23 Jan 2013 10:08:14 16,020 posts
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    52% would vote get out.

    And it's been pretty close to half all along.
  • PearOfAnguish 23 Jan 2013 10:12:02 7,312 posts
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    Interesting that Cameron specifically mentioned the working time directive for stopping doctors from working longer hours.

    They want to get rid of the legislation which guarantees us a minimum amount of holiday and regular breaks. They've already removed a number of employee rights by changing the tribunal rules.
  • LeoliansBro 23 Jan 2013 10:14:07 44,309 posts
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    Yeah, the Tory leanings to the US model are pretty unpalatable and make them come across as out of touch.

    For a change.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • PearOfAnguish 23 Jan 2013 10:18:53 7,312 posts
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    Took an employer to tribunal once, and won for unfair dismissal, but under the new rules I wouldn't have been allowed to get compensation for the way I was treated. His mention of the working time directive is utterly terrifying.
  • Chopsen 23 Jan 2013 10:19:57 16,020 posts
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    @LB

    Exactly. It's like geopolitical alternative history fiction from Robert Harris or Tom Clancy or someone, but it actually might happen. Also I've not noticed anyone talk about the implication of the fall in global oil prices as a result of increased shale-oil fracking. There's dangers of having all your eggs in one basket.

    @POA

    The EWTD was undoubtedly a good thing for medical practice and the NHS. The level of safety that was provided in the good old days where unsupervised and exhausted doctors were making important decisions on people's lives would never be tolerated today. The complexity of the workload, the expectations of accountability and increased litigation make it unworkable. (Doesn't stop the Royal College of Surgeons pining for the Good Old Days (TM), though. I think they're wrong)
  • mcmonkeyplc 23 Jan 2013 10:20:00 39,458 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    There is a simple answer to this. Make sure the conservatives don't win the next election.
    You think Labour will 'overrule the people's right to decide for themselves'? That's election cyanide.
    Why? Why the fuck do we need this referendum at all? Because the Conservatives are scared of losing voters to Ukip cause they're far from coherent on the EU as a party.

    We need the EU!

    That said if we as a people vote to leave then we deserve everything we get.

    We're British init we can do anyfing!
    We're a small island nation, (perhaps about to be split internally anyway) ...ah fuck it I can't be arsed.

    Too much rage.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • RedSparrows 23 Jan 2013 10:22:10 22,776 posts
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    What mowgs said.

    I'd be all for a referendum if I had any faith 85% of people were voting with anything more than a vague idea that 'the EU is bad/good as it takes/puts in lots of money and immigration is bad/good but I do know a good/bad foreigner.'

    Clusterfuck.
  • mcmonkeyplc 23 Jan 2013 10:32:41 39,458 posts
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    We need a campaign that clearly spells out what the EU is and what it does.

    The EU commission/ Parliament needs to do this as well. They just sit back and let the national governments blame them for pretty much everything.

    Start plastering large EU flags on everything they invest in. Not just tiny stamp size flags and some writing.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • DaM 23 Jan 2013 10:32:52 13,247 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Chopsen wrote:
    I was thinking about the implications of the Scottish referendum re this as well. The timing of things puts the Scottish vote before the British/English/UK/whatevers thing. There has been doubt already cast on the question if Scotland would automatically get EU membership if it did devolve. Then we really would have border patrols with Scotland :). Would it have to sign up to the Schengen area?

    It's fucking mental.
    It's a pretty awe-inspiring thing if you think it through. For instance Scotland doesn't have a standing army either, or any armed forces. It has no ambassadors or formal relations with any other country. It will be forced to accept trade tariffs at a huge disadvantage (as the alternative is isolation). It lacks much of the central bureaucracy of a country. In fact, it has no presence on the international stage at all.

    And then there's the question of what kind of country it looks like as a standalone. Ignore its geographic location, and instead note how underdeveloped it is. Few cities, only two of any size, no motorways north of Edinburgh, and an economy built on oil, tourism and salmon.
    I've been through this with you before LB. Presence on international stage? Would be the same as any other small country - we wouldn't be aiming to be a world power. We already have consulates around the world, it would not be a huge problem to set up embassies/hire staff. Small countries often come to arrangements with other countries to share embassy space.

    We would negotiate a share of existing armed forces. Trade tariffs - we would either inherit EU membership or negotiate entry. You'll have to point out what central bureaucracy we lack. DVLA? Social security is the only main thing not devolved to the Scottish Parliament, but we already have the infrastructure. Our NHS is separate, we've always had our own legal and education systems. Tax - all our VAT/PAYE is dealt with at local centres.

    No motorways north of Edinburgh? Pretty sure the M9 goes up to Perth, but I'm not sure what this argument is for. THe A9 should soon be near motorway standard all the way up to Inverness (the UK's fastest growing city). We don't have a large number of huge cities...that's because we are a small country. Geographic location? Not sure what that has to do with it... Under-developed? Again, small population, large land mass...not sure how this affects the issue! It certainly doesn't feel as crammed in as the South of England - I don't think that's a bad thing.

    There are 11 countries in the EU with smaller populations than Scotland. A lot of these countries did not exist until the fall of the Iron Curtain. They have smaller cities, less motorways, less development than Scotland and would probably quite like to have some of the industries/resources we have.

    None of your arguments against independence hold any water - and I'm for the Union remember :)

    @MD - we have a healthy Polish population, with close links since the war - lots of Poles were based here and stayed on after (I used to go drinking in a Polish/Scottish club). My local Tesco has a Polish aisle.
  • DaM 23 Jan 2013 10:33:31 13,247 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Chopsen wrote:
    Then we really would have border patrols with Scotland :).
    I think that is something that, as a country, we can all get behind.
    Get the Poles to patch up Hadrian's Wall!
  • Mr_Sleep 23 Jan 2013 10:35:43 17,085 posts
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    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    We're a small island nation, (perhaps about to be split internally anyway) ...ah fuck it I can't be arsed.

    Too much rage.
    You're forgetting that Britain used to run the world innit! We're super important on the international stage, everyone listens to us!

    You are a factory of sadness.

  • RedSparrows 23 Jan 2013 10:40:06 22,776 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Again, you cant not let people vote just because they will vote incorrectly. Democracy also encompasses the stupid and feeble minded.
    I don't want to restrict them. I just don't have to like it and nor do I have to hole the presupposition that it's made brilliant simply by being democratic.

    Edited by RedSparrows at 10:40:56 23-01-2013
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