The referendum on the United Kingdom's membership within the EU

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  • LetsGo 23 Jan 2013 00:03:34 5,175 posts
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    Well here we go, tomorrow David Cameron announces a referendum on the Eu.

    Let the battle commence, let's get it ON!

    Linke
  • neilka 23 Jan 2013 00:06:27 15,679 posts
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    I do enjoy a bit of the old in-out vote
  • LeD 23 Jan 2013 00:06:52 6,210 posts
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    Hopefully your lot get out, so the rest of us can get on!
  • MetalDog 23 Jan 2013 00:10:53 23,708 posts
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    He'll promise it and then not deliver it, surely?

    Haha - I was about to say 'he'll say they'll give it after the next election if they get in' and I took a look at the link and what a surprise:
    The pledge to hold a referendum if the Conservatives win the next election...

    Yeah - there's not going to be one, it's a lie. They don't want us deciding things like that one way or the other.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • Chopsen 23 Jan 2013 00:13:14 15,740 posts
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    MetalDog wrote:
    They don't want us deciding things like that one way or the other.
    Good we'll probably get it wrong. What kind of information are we acting on?
  • LeD 23 Jan 2013 00:14:32 6,210 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    MetalDog wrote:
    They don't want us deciding things like that one way or the other.
    Good we'll probably get it wrong. What kind of information are we acting on?
    That the French are smelly poofs. Surely that should be enough.
  • neilka 23 Jan 2013 00:18:10 15,679 posts
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    I hope rauper has bought the ukgamer.net domain.
  • MetalDog 23 Jan 2013 00:21:15 23,708 posts
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    Well, they could provide informed debate on the matter instead of baa-ing at each other like schoolchildren in the HoC, but they're not going to do that either.

    If you want to be informed, you have to inform yourself - neither government nor media can really be trusted to break issues down for us.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • cubbymoore 23 Jan 2013 00:22:25 36,468 posts
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    Whatever the PM thinks I'm happy to go along with.
  • Deleted user 23 January 2013 00:22:34
    “The pledge to hold a referendum if the Conservatives win the next election will be made in Mr Cameron’s long-awaited speech on Europe, which is finally due to be delivered this morning.”

    Is this his idea of offering people democracy? Hold people to ransom, just to get re-elected. Blair already did this, and then still didn't follow through.

    It should be mandatory, that every 8years (half way through a parliament term) an automatic referendum is triggered. The EU take so much money from EU countries, and such far reaching powers, yet are so far removed from the voting public. 40years without a vote, it is amazing that our ruling overlords, every get mentioned in the same sentence as the word democracy.

    What is really weird, is that I don't know anyone that voted yes in the vote of 40years ago, and I've asked quite a few people of different political views how they voted. If we vote No, will it be recorded as No.
  • Deleted user 23 January 2013 00:22:53
    The British public voting on anything to do with the EU just fills me with dread.
  • Chopsen 23 Jan 2013 00:23:23 15,740 posts
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    MetalDog wrote:
    If you want to be informed, you have to inform yourself
    There lies the problem. People can't be bothered/don't have time/have better things to be doing than informing themselves enough to make rational informed decisions about things. Yet there's an expectation for people to make decisions regardless.
  • neilka 23 Jan 2013 00:25:49 15,679 posts
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    vizzini wrote:
    If we vote No, will it be recorded as No.
    Yes, yes it will.
  • Chopsen 23 Jan 2013 00:26:28 15,740 posts
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    vizzini wrote:
    What is really weird, is that I don't know anyone that voted yes in the vote of 40years ago, and I've asked quite a few people of different political views how they voted. If we vote No, will it be recorded as No.
    At a guess, the fact that you have anti-European views means that you probably come from a background which is anti-European. Most people aren't radically different politically from their parents (thought they think they are from the ages of 14-25). You're drawing from a non-random sample.
  • Deleted user 23 January 2013 00:30:15
    @Chopsen

    Who said I'm anti-European. I'm certainly anti-dictatorship. If I don't get a vote, how can I be for or against anything?
  • Chopsen 23 Jan 2013 00:33:36 15,740 posts
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    The fact you want a referendum evry 8 years. Hardly something you'll be calling for if you were quite happy with the status quo.
  • Deleted user 23 January 2013 00:37:39
    @Chopsen

    So if I'm happy with the ruling local MP, MP or MEP, I don't need a vote on it regularly?

    People require a mandate to continue to govern, it is a foundation of democracy.
  • Chopsen 23 Jan 2013 00:39:51 15,740 posts
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    Yes you already do get to vote for your MEP. What is your point?

    Edited by Chopsen at 00:40:56 23-01-2013
  • Deleted user 23 January 2013 00:46:16
    That isn't the same thing, that is political slight of hand. You know just as well as I do, the EU need a proper mandate from every EU nation on a regular basis, just like any other political system.

    In a general election, one party could stand to overhaul the political system when it is broken. But there is no equivalent for the EU, unless we get automatic referendums on a bi-general election basis.
  • Bremenacht 23 Jan 2013 00:49:15 17,614 posts
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    mowgli wrote:
    The British public voting on anything to do with the EU just fills me with dread.
    You might be surprised, but then I suppose it depends how successful the usual newsmedia are at scaring up the the result they want.

    The UK is fucked if it votes itself out of Europe. By hook or by crook, the UK will find it's goods and services harder to sell to Europe. Who will it sell it's services to then? UK sales to the likes of Germany have been at their highest for years, and we'll do away with that to appease little englanders.
  • Chopsen 23 Jan 2013 00:50:02 15,740 posts
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    So if there was an referendum now, how would you vote?
  • Deleted user 23 January 2013 00:55:54
    Bremenacht wrote:
    mowgli wrote:
    The British public voting on anything to do with the EU just fills me with dread.
    You might be surprised, but then I suppose it depends how successful the usual newsmedia are at scaring up the the result they want.

    The UK is fucked if it votes itself out of Europe. By hook or by crook, the UK will find it's goods and services harder to sell to Europe. Who will it sell it's services to then? UK sales to the likes of Germany have been at their highest for years, and we'll do away with that to appease little englanders.
    Even when we don't like the decision, democracy has to mean democracy. You might look down on some hypothetical, poorly educated person, voting against EU membership, but all that does is paint you into the position of being the pig in animal farm. Equality and democracy are tightly intertwind.

    @chopsen

    I'm not sure, I'd have to look at the books, and put my chaos theory hat on :).
  • Chopsen 23 Jan 2013 00:57:04 15,740 posts
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    So you want a regular referendum on something you aren't interested in enough to have an opinion on?
  • LetsGo 23 Jan 2013 00:59:02 5,175 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:

    You might be surprised, but then I suppose it depends how successful the usual newsmedia are at scaring up the the result they want.
    And it's started already... :(

  • Deleted user 23 January 2013 01:06:28
    Chopsen wrote:
    So you want a regular referendum on something you aren't interested in enough to have an opinion on?
    The fact we import, more than export, and have road repair bills from non-green supermarket use of EU roads, and rising petrol costs because of it, I'd probably lean more towards opting out for a term, at this exact moment. I'd do more research before voting.

    The way the world is, it might be more beneficial for capitalist prospectors to lose some loan money, and the Plasticine EU countries to go back in their separate coloured boxes to get the unique colours back that made them individually prosperous and special. Then try again.
  • Bremenacht 23 Jan 2013 01:09:28 17,614 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    So if there was an referendum now, how would you vote?
    To stay in.
  • Moot_Point 23 Jan 2013 01:09:43 3,920 posts
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    MetalDog wrote:
    He'll promise it and then not deliver it, surely?

    Haha - I was about to say 'he'll say they'll give it after the next election if they get in' and I took a look at the link and what a surprise:
    The pledge to hold a referendum if the Conservatives win the next election...

    Yeah - there's not going to be one, it's a lie. They don't want us deciding things like that one way or the other.
    I doubt we'll get a say at all. The CONservatives have always promised something they cannot deliver, and this time its the referendum. The only party that would give us our say (without a hidden agenda) is UKIP.

    ================================================================================

    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • Bremenacht 23 Jan 2013 01:14:52 17,614 posts
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    vizzini wrote:
    You might look down on some hypothetical, poorly educated person, voting against EU membership, but all that does is paint you into the position of being the pig in animal farm.
    No, it doesn't. And paint all you want.
  • mal 23 Jan 2013 01:18:06 22,341 posts
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    vizzini wrote:
    That isn't the same thing, that is political slight of hand. You know just as well as I do, the EU need a proper mandate from every EU nation on a regular basis, just like any other political system.
    Didn't seem to stop the Lib/Con coalition choosing to govern the country when no one gave either of them a mandate to rule. But hey, I'm just bitter.

    So, what happened to the idea of a two speed europe? Seems like a jolly good idea if we could join together with the other less-integrationist countries without throwing out the EU baby with the bathwater. Although now I've written that, I must admit, an alliance of anti-integrationists does seem a somewhat perverse idea, but you know what I mean.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Sid-Nice 23 Jan 2013 01:21:02 15,852 posts
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    I remember the last referendum on whether we should join the Common Market on the 09/06/1975 1 day before my 18th birthday. The Tory tabloids were telling the morons to vote “Yes” while the Labour run rags were saying “No” to Europe. The broadsheet newspapers gave details of how the British workforce needed to be reduced by 1/3 to be in line with other European communities.

    The Sun Newspaper sold Europe to the UK general public with the promise of cheap plonk.

    NNID Sid-Nice

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