Sim City Page 2

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  • Moot_Point 16 Jan 2013 13:51:15 4,594 posts
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    jellyhead wrote:
    I rebought Sim City 4 in the Steam sales this christmas as a form of protest. Hah. Sad.
    Well £2.50 for the deluxe version seemed very reasonable to me. Was there anything bad about Sim City 4 that would require you to ditch 4 to buy 5?

    Edited by Moot_Point at 13:51:35 16-01-2013

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  • Deleted user 16 January 2013 13:52:36
    MetalDog wrote:
    WoW is a pretty good comparison, actually - taking a decent SP game I enjoyed and turning it into an online MP pay forever skinner box. Nope.
    I'm as cynical as anyone about the money machine that is MMOs, but I can still see their validity as a unique gaming concept that relies on an internet connection.
  • UncleLou Moderator 16 Jan 2013 13:52:40 35,849 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    Yeah. It really crushed Diablo 3s sales.
    I am surprised this hasn't made much bigger headlines than it has. The sales of D3 are absolutely astronomical, ridiculously so. Basically unheard of for a PC exclusive. Now one can say it was just the hype, but the numbers are too high for this, imo, much too high.

    Frankly, I am convinced it'll become the standard sooner rather than later, at least for any bigger titles.

    More worrying in the case of EA than Blizzard though with the former's habit to switch off servers after a year.
  • jellyhead 16 Jan 2013 13:53:56 24,350 posts
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    @moot
    Nope and that's why i bought it. Sim City 4 is fine and dandy. I'm not a good enough player to have hit many of the issues that are there :)

    I do need to grab the mods that are suggested for when i reinstall it.

    Edited by jellyhead at 13:54:40 16-01-2013

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  • MetalDog 16 Jan 2013 14:02:58 23,920 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    MetalDog wrote:
    WoW is a pretty good comparison, actually - taking a decent SP game I enjoyed and turning it into an online MP pay forever skinner box. Nope.
    I'm as cynical as anyone about the money machine that is MMOs, but I can still see their validity as a unique gaming concept that relies on an internet connection.
    Oh, so can I - but removing the SP option from an existing IP to do it is going to lose you some of those original SP fans, because it changes the flavour of the game so much and because basically you're relying on their love of the IP to gouge them.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • Cosquae 16 Jan 2013 14:17:45 1,242 posts
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    Sim City MMO is probably the most apt description (take that as a positive or negative).

    That said, SC4 has mods. 5 doesn't and likely won't given the server based multiplayer gameplay.

    SC4 has a larger city area. 5 is more akin to Sim Town in its size.

    SC4 has subways (not the sandwich shops) and farms. 5 doesn't. I can't imagine a SimCity game without an underground mass transit system, but there you go.
  • andytheadequate 16 Jan 2013 14:19:51 8,350 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    jellyhead wrote:
    That depends on what spin you read.
    Here the spin has been helpfully provided in the thread title :)

    Seriously, does WoW have "harsh DRM"? It's an online game that therefore requires an internet connection to play. This is the same.
    There is no reason why it shouldn't be single player as well, same with Diablo. How hard would it be to have a offline and online mode? They're trying to justify the DRM with an unnecessary game feature
  • Sharzam 16 Jan 2013 18:14:32 3,350 posts
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    Diablo yes i agree as it is a single player RPG that just so happens to have small party multiplayer.

    However the new sim city i dont know. Depending how it is structured and designed it might be seriously watered down/compromised if played offline so they thought force all online. However if it just the same as prevous sim city games (possible) then yes i agree forcing online only is DRM that has no place.

    Known as 'Sharzam' in 98.5% of games

  • jellyhead 16 Jan 2013 18:42:06 24,350 posts
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    We're going to have to wait for it to be released before sites an investigate the level of simulation taking place within the cloud. They have said that they had issues running the simulation purely on client nodes which is why the servers are necessary.

    I don't know if that was a prototype and they changed it or if the game was designed to be client/server from the outset and doesn't run well standalone.

    I'd say that always online being a form of anti-piracy DRM is just a happy coincidence. I reckon the game was initially designed during the social media frenzy a couple of years ago before the bubble started to thin hence the focus on social interactions, friend lists and interacting markets.
    Of course this also shuts out the modding community and gives you a ready-made vacuum to place a Sim City store into.

    To some people that interaction is very attractive, for me not so much. Hopefully one of the other City Sims will step in and fill the void with an offline game closer to SC4. I'd buy it.

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  • RobTheBuilder 16 Jan 2013 20:18:48 6,521 posts
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    teamHAM wrote:
    I'm sure I read something a while back saying that due to the fact that neighbouring cities to yours are now operated by human controllers, you need to be "always on" to play the game. So this sounds about right.
    So you aren't allowed to sleep or turn your PC off ever then?
  • ronuds 16 Jan 2013 20:20:50 21,788 posts
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    I don't want neighbouring cities operated by human controllers, though. :(
  • jellyhead 16 Jan 2013 20:26:18 24,350 posts
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    @ronuds That's what the Privacy mode is. It's just you and your cities in a region. You still need to be online but the shared datasets are limited to your own region.

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  • teamHAM 16 Jan 2013 20:30:29 3,149 posts
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    Cosquae wrote:
    That said, SC4 has mods. 5 doesn't and likely won't given the server based multiplayer gameplay.

    SC4 has a larger city area. 5 is more akin to Sim Town in its size.

    SC4 has subways (not the sandwich shops) and farms. 5 doesn't. I can't imagine a SimCity game without an underground mass transit system, but there you go.
    Sounds meh.

    Was hoping for a graphical update on 4 maybe with some improved mass transit and transport mechanics and a few tweaks on the overall system, rather than another watered down Sim City Societies job.

    Edited by teamHAM at 20:30:49 16-01-2013

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  • ronuds 16 Jan 2013 20:43:16 21,788 posts
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    jellyhead wrote:
    @ronuds That's what the Privacy mode is. It's just you and your cities in a region. You still need to be online but the shared datasets are limited to your own region.
    That's better, but still not thrilled about it.
  • teamHAM 16 Jan 2013 20:56:22 3,149 posts
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    Quote:

    The negative points of the new SimCity (2013) more mentioned in forums of SimCity fans are:

    - No option 100% offline with single player mode.
    - Always-on connection to Origin (EA servers).
    - Limitations to players in fake single player mode.
    - The presence of empty spaces not editable (useless empty spaces) with automatic road connections.
    - Absence of terraforming.
    - Absence of farms.
    - Not being able to save your maps on the hard drive (you will not be able to reload the city to a stage prior to disasters).
    - Road connections placed in a fixed and pre-determined location in the map.
    - Airport City (the city is only one International Airport, occupying the entire map 2x2km).
    - Absence of subway.
    - Automatic road connections.
    - Player doesn’t have complete control over the zoning by population density (almost automatic zoning).
    - Dead space between all the buildings.
    - Size of the maps is 2km by 2km (small maps).
    - Not being able to control the regional transport.
    - Modding restrictions.
    Edited by teamHAM at 20:56:46 16-01-2013

    XBox Live, Origin, PSN and Steam: teamHAM

  • Cosquae 16 Jan 2013 21:42:26 1,242 posts
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    teamHAM wrote:
    Quote:

    The negative points of the new SimCity (2013) more mentioned in forums of SimCity fans are:

    - No option 100% offline with single player mode.
    - Always-on connection to Origin (EA servers).
    - Limitations to players in fake single player mode.
    - The presence of empty spaces not editable (useless empty spaces) with automatic road connections.
    - Absence of terraforming.
    - Absence of farms.
    - Not being able to save your maps on the hard drive (you will not be able to reload the city to a stage prior to disasters).
    - Road connections placed in a fixed and pre-determined location in the map.
    - Airport City (the city is only one International Airport, occupying the entire map 2x2km).
    - Absence of subway.
    - Automatic road connections.
    - Player doesn’t have complete control over the zoning by population density (almost automatic zoning).
    - Dead space between all the buildings.
    - Size of the maps is 2km by 2km (small maps).
    - Not being able to control the regional transport.
    - Modding restrictions.
    I'm betting 9/10 from EG
  • Rusty_M 16 Jan 2013 22:06:09 4,916 posts
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    I'll be waiting for a few reviews and forum impressions before I buy it.

    The world is going mad. Me? I'm doing fine.
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  • dsmx 16 Jan 2013 22:17:39 7,723 posts
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    From my point of what the new simcity looks like is a glorified facebook game, yes it has some nice tech behind it but it's not a development of simcity 4 which is what previous fans of the series, like me would of wanted.

    So if you've played the series before this game isn't for you, which is probably why there isn't a 5 on the end.

    "If we hit that bullseye the rest of the dominoes will fall like a a house of cards, checkmate." Zapp Brannigan

  • bad09 16 Jan 2013 22:47:54 6,254 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    Aargh. wrote:
    Yeah. It really crushed Diablo 3s sales.
    I am surprised this hasn't made much bigger headlines than it has. The sales of D3 are absolutely astronomical, ridiculously so. Basically unheard of for a PC exclusive. Now one can say it was just the hype, but the numbers are too high for this, imo, much too high.

    Frankly, I am convinced it'll become the standard sooner rather than later, at least for any bigger titles.

    More worrying in the case of EA than Blizzard though with the former's habit to switch off servers after a year.
    Didn't they give it away with WOW subs or something? I suspect it didn't actually "sell" as much as you think. Not to mention no matter how much it sold people had trouble the next one may not sell as much after the connection troubles people had.

    No, I don't agree it works, Ubi held on to it for years before finally giving in and now are quite reasonable DRM wise (even if UPlay is useless crap), Capcom backed out of using something similar. An indie tried on some game recently and got a basklash from it.

    EA do like to roll it out here and there, of course only because of the multiplayer features, I mean if you play single player you need to be connected for the multiplayer :)

    If it did get bigger, the backlash would be huge I reckon but consumers still need to keep these companies in check. Vote with your wallets, encourage and educate others and it WILL go away....well at least it better we are losing the DRM war enough already.
  • UncleLou Moderator 17 Jan 2013 07:51:45 35,849 posts
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    @bad09 They gave away about 1 million copies with WoW, almost negligible in the context of >10 million copies in 6 months. The difference to Ubisoft is that the DRM worked, due to parts of the game running server-side - which is exactly what EA are doing now with Sim City. I don't think that's a coincidence. They might just think they have found a form of copy protection that actually works.
  • teamHAM 17 Jan 2013 07:52:43 3,149 posts
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    Aye, IIRC there were at least 1.5m sales from WoW Annual Passes.

    XBox Live, Origin, PSN and Steam: teamHAM

  • bad09 17 Jan 2013 08:51:14 6,254 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    @bad09 They gave away about 1 million copies with WoW, almost negligible in the context of >10 million copies in 6 months. The difference to Ubisoft is that the DRM worked, due to parts of the game running server-side - which is exactly what EA are doing now with Sim City. I don't think that's a coincidence. They might just think they have found a form of copy protection that actually works.
    Ah I see. so one million given away so that leave 9 million and looking at Diablo 2 sales it seems the sales aren't actually that weird. 17 million sales apparently so as huge as sales were for 3 it's actually a lot less than the previous one. Personally I would say looking at the figures it sold well yes but the DRM could possibly have done more damage than good. They did certainly lose people with the DRM.

    I am pretty sure I've read it was cracked and playable to so I honestly don't think the DRM made that much difference.

    I don't know it seems most who try it back down eventually so it doesn't seem a good way to sell games given the bad relationship with customers it creates and, given the strength of the brand, Diablo might just be have been the exception rather than the way forward. Either way it goes in the future it's 100% the end of gaming for me if it ever did go that way I am already spending more on other entertainment products in this DRM war we are losing as customers, I pay more more for my DVDs than my games nowadays! :)

    Edited by bad09 at 08:53:16 17-01-2013
  • Cosquae 17 Jan 2013 09:45:07 1,242 posts
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    bad09 wrote:
    I am already spending more on other entertainment products in this DRM war we are losing as customers, I pay more more for my DVDs than my games nowadays! :)
    Has anyone ever thought of making a 'Steam for Movies' idea?

    Download movies / TV shows but with the occasional 50-80% sale?
  • UncleLou Moderator 17 Jan 2013 09:47:42 35,849 posts
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    I don't think you can compare the sales in 6 months to those D2 made in ... what, 12 years? And the game was from a different era.

    Obiovusly, the numbers are open to inerpretation. It's just my opinion that the reason for the D3 sales is that the copy protection actually worked. Yeah, it was cracked, but as far as I know, the crack does not work properly.

    Once more I am a bit surprised that people are not more surprised about these numbers. They are monstrous for a PC exclusive.
  • UncleLou Moderator 17 Jan 2013 09:58:42 35,849 posts
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    I am pretty sure the expansion pack will sell millions, but that's not really the point. If D3's reputation is really that bad, the numbers are even more surprising, actually.

    Anyway, it will be very interesting to see if Sim City can be cracked, and how it will sell. I guess it's a test for EA.
  • bad09 17 Jan 2013 10:03:26 6,254 posts
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    @UncleLou

    Well it's not a test for EA, they already tried and bombed in C&C4 but for some reason they are continually trying it on for some reason, under the same guise to "oh it's for the multiplayer".
  • magicpanda 26 Jan 2013 20:18:45 13,469 posts
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  • nickthegun 26 Jan 2013 20:35:08 61,270 posts
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    PCs are the future of gaming

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  • Spectral 26 Jan 2013 20:46:59 5,019 posts
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    Given EA's fondness for shutting down servers every year there is no way in hell I'll be buying this. Shame really as it looks like a good game. Yes other companies use similar online requirements but they dont have a reputation of shutting down the servers as soon as they want you to buy the new shiny version. Chances are in 2-3 years this will literally be unplayable.
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