The sound quality thread Page 2

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  • buggrit 2 Jan 2013 06:16:48 5,178 posts
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    mrharvest wrote:
    This is an interesting thread. My opinion is that sound quality has been getting better, rather than worse, outside of major releases. But I'd also say that the loudness wars are an aesthetic rather than a sound quality issue. However I don't listen to mainstream music so this opinion is purely academic on my part.

    Also I'm of the opinion that vinyl releases sound better because the medium has more distortion, less headroom and weaker stereo separation than CDs. If you are getting more bass from your LPs then there's probably something wrong with your RIAA.
    This post makes no sense.
  • BlackSentoki 2 Jan 2013 06:32:51 917 posts
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    buggrit wrote:
    @mal That's all certainly some of it, but you have to bear in mind that DJ decks allow (even demand) you run a much higher tracking weight than a home turntable - this is to help ensure the needle stays in the grooves under, as you say, more challenging conditions. Lighter tracking weight, differently-shaped styli and a more 'relaxed' listening environment make for a different set of criteria for home decks - I wouldn't recommend using a Technics 1210 at home unless you know what you're doing and have a 'hifi' cartridge rather than a 'DJ' one :) Likewise, don't put your precious first-press Black Sabbath vinyl on a 1210 unless you want it to be potentially ruined...
    Most if not all DJ decks, and certainly a 1210 (which was never originally intended to be a DJ deck), will allow you to adjust the tracking weight and of course to select what cartridge you want to use, so there's no reason why a DJ deck should endanger your vinyl any more than an audiophile deck. You may find you get more noise from a direct drive DJ turntable as the cartridge picks up some of the sound of the motor, but on the other hand you may find that you get a more consistent record speed from direct drive.
  • buggrit 2 Jan 2013 06:42:47 5,178 posts
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    @BlackSentoki Absolutely, but your average person that buys a used 1210 won't know that - you'd be horrified at how many people use the likes of Ortofon Nightclub or Stanton Groovemasters on their home-use decks *shudders*
    You'll hear more mechanical noise from the cart itself (which is usually below the noise floor of vinyl anyway) unless your deck is shagged ;)
  • BlackSentoki 2 Jan 2013 06:50:03 917 posts
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    buggrit wrote:
    @BlackSentoki Absolutely, but your average person that buys a used 1210 won't know that - you'd be horrified at how many people use the likes of Ortofon Nightclub or Stanton Groovemasters on their home-use decks *shudders*
    You'll hear more mechanical noise from the cart itself (which is usually below the noise floor of vinyl anyway) unless your deck is shagged ;)
    If they've set it up correctly then even with a Nightclub cartridge the wear shouldn't be too bad - although I take your point that lots of people just assume the tracking weight should be at maximum regardless (and then tape a penny to the headshell!).

    I use Ortofon S-120 cartridges, set up correctly, on a pair of 1210s, and the vinyl wear is minimal and the sound quality fantastic. Have to admit the sound of the motor on a direct drive turntable isn't something I've heard picked up, but I've heard many audiophiles complain about it and swear by a belt driven deck.
  • buggrit 2 Jan 2013 06:58:49 5,178 posts
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    @BlackSentoki I'd be a lot more comfortable with some of my records not being within a thousand miles of 'club' type carts - way too heavy and way too much tracking weight needed to run them properly!
    I use a DJ deck myself, but running a Shure Whitelabel cart :)
  • BlackSentoki 2 Jan 2013 07:16:36 917 posts
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    Ooh, how are the Whitelabels? I was tempted to get those when I bought the S-120s, not least because they were cheaper, but was so used to Ortofon that I stuck to what I know.

    When Dj in clubs with decks I always take my own cartridges out with me because I worry as to what state the club's decks will be in. Although now it's becoming more the case that there are no decks there at all...

    To bring the thread back on topic - are you noticing that a lot of new music released on vinyl is poorly mastered for the format? It winds me up when the vinyl version is 2 or 3 times the price of the CD or download but then doesn't sound as good, when they should be at least on a par or better.
  • buggrit 2 Jan 2013 07:26:22 5,178 posts
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    @BlackSentoki They're excellent - light and accurate, nice clean sound, track lightly and even look good :) As you say, they're fairly cheap too considering they're a one-piece design and for the sound quality at the price I think they're pretty hard to beat.

    Yes, for most mainstream stuff - so much of it sounds like they've just plonked the CD master onto vinyl, nasty compression/limiting and all. For the more esoteric stuff it's not been a problem at all, really. Some recent albums I have heard on both formats through my system and the vinyl sounds infinitely better in every case bar one (the last Kreator album is far better on CD, oddly). Some labels are just raking in the extra cash, it seems :s
  • BlackSentoki 2 Jan 2013 07:42:01 917 posts
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    @buggrit I'm quite tempted to get some as a spare pair of travelling carts. The S-120s are great, and sound brilliant, but replacement styli are insanely expensive.

    It's the more commercial stuff where it really does sound like the CD master on vinyl - have been buying on both formats and doing listening tests and it's hugely annoying. Especially when they are putting stuff out on 180gm vinyl and it still sounds disappointing. Like you say, more esoteric stuff (if you can find it on vinyl at all), is usually pretty decent.
  • thelzdking 2 Jan 2013 12:47:50 4,357 posts
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    I once bought LP reissue of the Varathron demos and halfway through the first side one of the songs started jumping around; they'd mastered the LP straight from a CD and whilst they were doing it the CD had been skipping so half of the song was missing. One of the most atrocious things I've ever heard.
  • FuzzyDuck 2 Jan 2013 18:12:05 4,003 posts
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    buggrit wrote:
    FuzzyDuck wrote:
    He's up there with Billy Anderson as one of those producers that just leave the music sounding utterly lifeless.
    Billy Anderson has produced a lot of very decent-sounding records - his work with Neurosis, Sleep, Orange Goblin, Jawbreaker, Buzzov-En, Om etc all sounds really good to me. Always better on vinyl though, most likely due to superior mastering.
    I think we'll have to agree to disagree here, just yesterday I was swearing at how shit Holy Mountain sounds! His ultimate no-no for me is Primordial's "The Gathering Wilderness" - what the hell did he do to the toms? They're almost inaudible. They sound similarly shit on "Through Silver and Blood", can't enjoy either of those records.

    I will however, wholehartedly share your venom towards Kevin Shirley :D
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