Childlessness Page 11

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  • silentbob 2 Jan 2013 13:31:30 28,956 posts
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    sport wrote:
    Trust EG to turn a thread about having kids into a discussion about Danish tax law.
    I know. My money's still on bumming by page 18 though.

    Edited by silentbob at 13:32:06 02-01-2013

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  • Psychotext 2 Jan 2013 13:40:28 53,939 posts
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    Bringing things back on topic somewhat... why does this sort of thing seem to be becoming more common? Are we really just so jaded as to the state of the world, or is it a reflection of a self absorbed society?
  • morriss 2 Jan 2013 13:40:44 70,930 posts
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    Post deleted
  • ResidentKnievel 2 Jan 2013 13:42:53 6,181 posts
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    silentbob wrote:
    sport wrote:
    Trust EG to turn a thread about having kids into a discussion about Danish tax law.
    I know. My money's still on bumming by page 18 though.
    It's the cheapest contraceptive for couples wishing to remain childless

    [code]Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Unlike yourself, I don't have a weird obsession with any platform.[/code]

  • silentbob 2 Jan 2013 13:50:30 28,956 posts
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    \o/

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  • Psychotext 2 Jan 2013 13:52:37 53,939 posts
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    I'll try it as a tactic but I suspect a more realistic form of contraception would be no sex at all. =/
  • kalel 2 Jan 2013 14:31:03 86,955 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    I personally find it odd that we don't have a similar system to Denmark. We have publicly funded education for children from age four upwards, so why not have it before then? Is the expectation really that parents will look after their children for the first four years of their lives?
    It's the difference between public funding of a child's wellbeing and public funding of a child's education. Although there's a strong argument in favour of what you're saying once you buy into the idea that social contact is a vital part of upbringing.
    Yeah that, but also the line isn't as clear cut as "social contact and general wellbeing" until four and then WHAM, they're being educated. Nursery is where kids learn to walk and talk, number, colours, alphabet etc. Plus even once they start proper school to a large extent they're still being "looked after" as opposed to 8 hours of education a day.

    Obviously you have to draw a line somewhere, but I reckon aged 1 is actually a perfectly reasonable place to draw that line. That is the point (more or less) when kids start learning important stuff, so I think it's reasonable for it to be publicly funded at that point, particularly as that will result in more working parents and yeah, more rounded and educated kids.

    I'm usually pretty centre-right in truth but I'm with the lefties on this one.
  • LeoliansBro 2 Jan 2013 14:40:24 43,800 posts
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    It's fair, and as you may have noticed I'm totally on the outside looking in on this one.

    I'm not going all Daily Mail and suggesting that there are lazy Danish parents out there who shuffle their kids off the free helper school so they can get a bit of peace and quiet (that's a shocking strawman as well, but there you go). I don't know what is involved with looking after a 1 year old, bonding, teaching etc vs a 3 year old vs a 5 year old.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Chopsen 2 Jan 2013 14:44:08 15,860 posts
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    I guess the current system in the UK is still based around the idea that the man is the bread-winner, and the woman obviously has nothing better to do than stay at home and look after the kids. This hasn't really been the case for a large majority of couple for a very long time now. However, people seem to be able to cope, so I guess it doesn't have much impetus behind change.

    Also, most people who vote don't have young children and wouldn't benefit. Retired people, parents of older children who've grown up and never going to go for this because would inevitably mean more taxation on them. *They* had to cope, so why can't you?

    Pisses me off a bit really. I used to blame everything on either Hitler, The Industrial Revolution and Decartes. I'm now adding Baby Boomers to that list.
  • kalel 2 Jan 2013 14:48:55 86,955 posts
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    Perhaps the system could be something along the lines of "free nurseries for working couples" or something. Then it basically pays for itself (or arguably more so anyway).

    I suppose then you have the issue of it being blatantly geared towards the middle classes, but it's hard to justify needing free nursery if one parent doesn't work isn't it?
  • TheSaint 2 Jan 2013 14:50:21 14,298 posts
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    Isn't the birth rate quite low in Denmark? I'm sure they had a story on the news recently that all the nursery workers had volunteered to work for free one evening to encourage all the parents to get it on and safeguard their jobs.
  • Chopsen 2 Jan 2013 14:53:18 15,860 posts
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    Yeah, you'd think it's a no-brainer, wouldn't you? Not only might it pay for itself but even if it didn't you could argue it has a net positive effect on the economy (parents remain economically active, promote growth in childcare/nursery sector).
  • kickerconspiracy 2 Jan 2013 14:58:06 495 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    Isn't the birth rate quite low in Denmark? I'm sure they had a story on the news recently that all the nursery workers had volunteered to work for free one evening to encourage all the parents to get it on and safeguard their jobs.
    That's awesome.

    Do they provide complimentary Barry White?
  • LeoliansBro 2 Jan 2013 15:01:30 43,800 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    Yeah, you'd think it's a no-brainer, wouldn't you? Not only might it pay for itself but even if it didn't you could argue it has a net positive effect on the economy (parents remain economically active, promote growth in childcare/nursery sector).
    Show me proof of this and I'll bang the drum for free childcare.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Chopsen 2 Jan 2013 15:10:50 15,860 posts
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    Policy needs proof now?
  • LeoliansBro 2 Jan 2013 15:12:14 43,800 posts
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    No, I just like the angle of the argument and wondered whether it was bourne out in practice.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • DaisyD 2 Jan 2013 18:46:46 11,818 posts
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    I think free childcare would be awesome. I'm actually sat here searching for nurseries locally & comparing prices etc. I'm going back to work full time in March & going back will involves some nights a week away from home, so the hubby will have to become the full time carer, as he's home based anyway, but we do need some days where he can get on with his stuff too. Also useful for the days I'll be working from home. Of course I'd love to be a stay at home mum, but that's not a possibility.

    As for childlessness, I didn't want kids for a long time. I think I only started thinking about it when I hit 30, & still put it off. Now I'm 36 & had my 1st this year. Until you have a child, I just don't think it is possible to understand how much you can love one person. Of course I love my OH, but I cannot possibly began to describe how much love I feel for my little man & I know the hubby feels the same. I've always been a bit funny about clearing up sick or any other excrement that may be left by one of my pets, but it just doesn't seem as bad when it's your own baby. There's nothing wrong with not wanting children either. With the ever expanding population of this planet, it actually may be a good thing for some to choose not to have any at all.
  • Bremenacht 2 Jan 2013 20:37:23 17,780 posts
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    @meme

    So. Anything you've read to alter your existing viewpoint?
  • elstoof 2 Jan 2013 20:42:55 7,000 posts
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    He's out buying a turtle.
  • morriss 2 Jan 2013 20:49:54 70,930 posts
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    kickerconspiracy wrote:
    TheSaint wrote:
    Isn't the birth rate quite low in Denmark? I'm sure they had a story on the news recently that all the nursery workers had volunteered to work for free one evening to encourage all the parents to get it on and safeguard their jobs.
    That's awesome.

    Do they provide complimentary Barry White?
    Not low, but not high enough. And yeah, that story is true. They offered to baby sit for free on a Wednesday night so parents could have some time to themselves. :)

    That was just in one constituency, however. it's not a nationwide issue.
  • Deleted user 2 January 2013 21:01:52
    Bremenacht wrote:
    @meme

    So. Anything you've read to alter your existing viewpoint?
    In all honesty, no, nor was I expecting to (nor was it why I made this thread, really). And to clarify my viewpoint somewhat so morriss doesn't think me an unspeakable monster, I don't want kids because I don't want kids. All other considerations (lifestyle changes etc etc) are utterly secondary, tertiary even, but they're still factors, even if they're currently minor ones - I've seen lifestyle as a reason bandied around by other childless couples, and was curious if any existed on this forum and what their experience of such a decision was.
  • Dougs 2 Jan 2013 21:09:47 67,170 posts
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    This whole free child care thing, you get 15 hours free after the age of 3, and I'm sure there's a lib dem policy to bring this down to 2. Some good discussion here, I knew I always wanted kids, probably because I saw first hand how awesome they can be with my nieces and nephew (who are now 19,23 and 25) but didn't meet the right person until I was 30 and even then we knew we wanted to wait 5 or 6 years before having any, just so we could enjoy being together as a couple. It is hard, but totally worth it in every way.
  • morriss 2 Jan 2013 21:12:51 70,930 posts
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    meme wrote:
    Bremenacht wrote:
    @meme

    So. Anything you've read to alter your existing viewpoint?
    In all honesty, no, nor was I expecting to (nor was it why I made this thread, really). And to clarify my viewpoint somewhat so morriss doesn't think me an unspeakable monster, I don't want kids because I don't want kids. All other considerations (lifestyle changes etc etc) are utterly secondary, tertiary even, but they're still factors, even if they're currently minor ones - I've seen lifestyle as a reason bandied around by other childless couples, and was curious if any existed on this forum and what their experience of such a decision was.
    I shudder at the thought of you not having kids, gremmi.
  • Psychotext 2 Jan 2013 21:18:29 53,939 posts
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    meme wrote:
    All other considerations (lifestyle changes etc etc) are utterly secondary, tertiary even, but they're still factors, even if they're currently minor ones - I've seen lifestyle as a reason bandied around by other childless couples, and was curious if any existed on this forum and what their experience of such a decision was.
    We're not allowed to talk about it... what with being heartless robot monsters and all.
  • elstoof 2 Jan 2013 21:27:51 7,000 posts
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    Do the world a favour and donate some sperm meme.
  • Psychotext 2 Jan 2013 21:33:36 53,939 posts
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    Surely it would just be more fun if he got passed around the EG wives?
  • elstoof 2 Jan 2013 21:42:00 7,000 posts
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    Wives? Oh right, wives, yeah. I wasn't thinking about myself. My wife, that's it.
  • localnotail 2 Jan 2013 21:42:50 23,093 posts
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    Nice idea, and I do think he should spawn, but I don't want another child, not even a mini-gremmi-meme.

    Congratulations Daisy, glad to hear you are enjoying being a parent :)

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  • ZuluHero 2 Jan 2013 22:00:45 4,099 posts
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    That makes him sound like a salmon.

    Should we hire out a pool for him and our significant others for a night? ;)
  • Psychotext 2 Jan 2013 22:07:31 53,939 posts
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    It would certainly be entertaining.
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