Gérard Depardieu to return French passport Page 2

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  • elstoof 18 Dec 2012 16:00:10 8,314 posts
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    If these impoverished resenters of high earners got a substantial pay rise tomorrow, they'd soon be singing a different tune.
  • SClaw 18 Dec 2012 16:00:37 826 posts
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    Basically, yes they did. Please don’t tell me that Depardieu’s contribution to the world is actually worth a hundred or a thousand times more than what one toilet cleaner, kitchen helper or sandwich maker does. Obviously not.

    All these arguments have the same ring to them; a false one. As I said they are paying a lot of tax but they are still earning a SHIT LOAD of money beyond that. Oh no… he won’t be able to eat truffles on toast every morning! He might have to have readybreak twice a week instead! He’s definitely worse off than all those people who need to use food banks simply to live at all. Poor him!
  • LeoliansBro 18 Dec 2012 16:01:44 44,956 posts
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    elstoof wrote:
    If these impoverished resenters of high earners got a substantial pay rise tomorrow, they'd soon be singing a different tune.
    Heh indeed, although they'd probably be singing 'Inflation' by the Economic Numbskulls.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • AcidSnake 18 Dec 2012 16:02:57 7,297 posts
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    SClaw wrote:
    I'm not sure I agree. That's a lot of money for one person to earn, and the 250,000 (or whatever) left isn't anything to scoff at. It IS a hamfisted way to make society a little more equal but fuck rich people, frankly, they got there by standing on the backs of the improverished so they should be taxed heavily.
    Surely that 75% is on every euro he makes that goes over 1000000? So over that 1000000 he keeps more than 250000, and every euro after that only nets him 25 cents...

    AcidSnake - He can't see your sig, avatar, images or vids and talks about himself in the third person because he's proper old-skool...UID 24017

  • LeoliansBro 18 Dec 2012 16:04:54 44,956 posts
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    SClaw wrote:
    Basically, yes they did. Please don’t tell me that Depardieu’s contribution to the world is actually worth a hundred or a thousand times more than what one toilet cleaner, kitchen helper or sandwich maker does. Obviously not.


    Oh good, we're doing the Fallacy of Intrinsic Value again are we? It's all about supply and demand.

    Alternatively, show me an sandwich maker who's paid £200m in taxes and I'll listen to your follow up arguments on why he's as useful as a France's best known actor who isn't Vincent Cassel.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • JuanKerr 18 Dec 2012 16:05:13 36,445 posts
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    SClaw wrote:
    Basically, yes they did. Please don’t tell me that Depardieu’s contribution to the world is actually worth a hundred or a thousand times more than what one toilet cleaner, kitchen helper or sandwich maker does. Obviously not.

    All these arguments have the same ring to them; a false one. As I said they are paying a lot of tax but they are still earning a SHIT LOAD of money beyond that. Oh no… he won’t be able to eat truffles on toast every morning! He might have to have readybreak twice a week instead! He’s definitely worse off than all those people who need to use food banks simply to live at all. Poor him!
    What's your suggestion then? Everyone to earn exactly the same?
  • chopsen 18 Dec 2012 16:05:25 16,290 posts
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    SClaw wrote:
    Basically, yes they did. Please don’t tell me that Depardieu’s contribution to the world is actually worth a hundred or a thousand times more than what one toilet cleaner, kitchen helper or sandwich maker does. Obviously not.

    All these arguments have the same ring to them; a false one. As I said they are paying a lot of tax but they are still earning a SHIT LOAD of money beyond that. Oh no… he won’t be able to eat truffles on toast every morning! He might have to have readybreak twice a week instead! He’s definitely worse off than all those people who need to use food banks simply to live at all. Poor him!
    Hmm. First off the argument in that 1st paragraph is a fallacy. Is someone who earns 10 zorkmids an hour worth twice as much as someone who earns five zorkmids an hour. As a human being, obviously not. As someone to perform a task for which there is a demand for? Yes, in general terms, unless there is corruption. That is how they ended up earning more. How do you think people's pay was determined? By lottery?

    Also, the second paragraph. I don't think he's expecting sympathy. He saw his options, thought fuck this and went where his money went further. He's not begging for someone else to sort his problems out. He did it himself. Ironically, it's people that think like that who tend to end up earning more.

    Edited by Chopsen at 16:05:50 18-12-2012
  • elstoof 18 Dec 2012 16:06:14 8,314 posts
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    Here's the point SClaw - .

    And you're totally missing it.
  • SClaw 18 Dec 2012 16:06:47 826 posts
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    AcidSnake wrote:
    SClaw wrote:
    I'm not sure I agree. That's a lot of money for one person to earn, and the 250,000 (or whatever) left isn't anything to scoff at. It IS a hamfisted way to make society a little more equal but fuck rich people, frankly, they got there by standing on the backs of the improverished so they should be taxed heavily.
    Surely that 75% is on every euro he makes that goes over 1000000? So over that 1000000 he keeps more than 250000, and every euro after that only nets him 25 cents...
    True. But don't ask me to do figures. I was in the retard math class at school. We played bingo all day. Nowadays I have minions to do maths for me. Take that, paying attention in class!
  • JuanKerr 18 Dec 2012 16:08:50 36,445 posts
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    SClaw wrote:
    True. But don't ask me to do figures. I was in the retard math class at school. We played bingo all day. Nowadays I have minions to do maths for me. Take that, paying attention in class!
    Do these minions get paid less than you? YOU FUCKING RICH SCUM.
  • SClaw 18 Dec 2012 16:12:45 826 posts
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    JuanKerr wrote:
    SClaw wrote:
    True. But don't ask me to do figures. I was in the retard math class at school. We played bingo all day. Nowadays I have minions to do maths for me. Take that, paying attention in class!
    Do these minions get paid less than you? YOU FUCKING RICH SCUM.
    And I call them math monkeys too. That's what they get for being smart instead of being smarmy.
  • Salaman 18 Dec 2012 16:14:00 19,604 posts
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    Mr-Brett wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    See what happens when you try to tax the rich more?
    So this isn't an isolated case?
    Richest frenchmen moved to Belgium last month. In other news. Say hello to Belgium's most famous actor. Gerard Depardieu. \0/
  • Mr-Brett 18 Dec 2012 16:38:42 12,894 posts
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    JuanKerr wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Mr-Brett wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Mr-Brett wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    See what happens when you try to tax the rich more?
    So this isn't an isolated case?
    Nope. LVMH chap (richest Frenchman) is moving to Belgium as well. But it's a useful illustration of why Higher Taxes and More Tax revenue isn't the same. Don't forget, you're targeting both the most beneficial (from a tax revenue perspective) and the most mobile portion of society.
    Lets not forget the most greedy too :)
    It's interesting to see that it's not all hot air.
    Greedy? They give the most to charity, both in total and as a proportion of their income. They pay the most taxes. They spend the most money, therefore directly energising the economy the most. They employ the most people. etc etc :)
    But they've got more money than me, so I must instantly resent all of them.
    I think you need to be at least quite greedy to get to the super rich category, it's not necessarily a negative, it is a capitalist society after all.

    Some of the rich of course are very generous, the obvious example is the gates foundation. You're naturally going know more about this than I am so please educate :)

    You mention taxes, charity, economy and employment. So how much of the taxes are given freely? the charity given for reasons other than reducing amounts to pay in taxes? economy well this is surely involuntary? and employment is also a necessity too right?

    I guess there are instances like: company Y could have moved their operates to third world country Y but didn't because they love country Z. Is that part of what you're talking about since there are obviously economic and employment factors involved?

    @juan, I may be a bit of a lefty but I try not to resent others for having more money although I may occasionally make sweeping judgements of them on the internet.

    Level 37 Social Justice Warrior

  • Mr-Brett 18 Dec 2012 16:40:08 12,894 posts
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    @Salaman Don't let Van Damme hear you say that, he'll be heart broken!

    Level 37 Social Justice Warrior

  • LeoliansBro 18 Dec 2012 16:41:33 44,956 posts
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    From my experience, most of the super wealthy are either a) inheritors interested in preserving their way of life, or b) driven individuals who have little interest in the money because it isn't why they do what they do.

    Both will act in ways which can be called greedy to protect their own wealth, but neither has greed as the primary reason for their being wealthy in the first place.

    So given your definition, I'd agree.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Mr-Brett 18 Dec 2012 16:48:49 12,894 posts
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    Fair enough, its good to know :)

    Level 37 Social Justice Warrior

  • Deleted user 18 December 2012 16:49:45
    Not that it has a great deal of bearing on the discussion, but one problem with super-rich is when poor people lose all their money through economic problems, it means poverty and hardships and having to work three jobs and eating stale bread and pot noodles for dinner. When super rich people lose all their money through economic collapse, it means not being able to finish building their $75 million castle and having to perhaps get rid of a maid or two. It doesn't help garner much in the way of sympathy. Watch the documentary Queen of Versailles for some interesting faux-drama and a good dose of utter divorce from reality.
  • elstoof 18 Dec 2012 16:54:23 8,314 posts
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    Very broad strokes there meme, no money left is no money left wether you previously had lots of it or not very much.
  • Deleted user 18 December 2012 17:09:04
    Well, that's the point, they (in the documentary) defined it as losing "all their money" even though they could still afford a house larger than my entire apartment complex, personal staff, and children so spoilt they literally don't understand what money is.

    Edited by meme at 17:09:35 18-12-2012
  • LeoliansBro 18 Dec 2012 17:13:06 44,956 posts
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    Not sure what point you're making.

    That the super rich are divorced from the hardships of reality through their wealth? Yep, absolutely, just like we don't know what it's like to live in a wooden hut in Bangladesh.

    That they never really fall as far as those with less money? Yep, most probably, which is why a solid welfare system is so important.

    That they don't pay enough tax to contribute their fair share to this welfare system? Maybe, but they generally pay a whole lot more than any of us, and there's a huge difference between what they pay and what they would pay if they were taxed more, which would be zero given they'd move.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Deleted user 18 December 2012 17:19:12
    I'm not making any point, really, like I said it had no bearing on the discussion at hand. Just saying that it's hard to feel any real sympathy for ridiculously rich people complaining about tax and worrying about money when you're sitting closer to the other end of the spectrum. I understand the logical arguments behind tax and the rich and so on, but it doesn't mean a great deal when you're eating slightly-gone off grapefruit for breakfast because you live on paycheque to paycheque and the next one's still a couple of days away.
  • elstoof 18 Dec 2012 17:21:19 8,314 posts
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    The subjects of this documentary don't really sound like decent humans, but their cash value is a seperate argument really. In any case, they aren't any further detached from reality as someone who exists on state handouts but still manages to buy 40 cigarettes a day, propping up the local bar wearing Juicy Couture and a fake tan.
  • LeoliansBro 18 Dec 2012 17:22:46 44,956 posts
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    Ah, I see. I think 'sympathising' isn't quite the right word maybe. 'Understanding' their decisions is what I would use. And, because at heart I am a bastard, there's a small flicker of vindicated triumph because I've been banging on about such tax rises as these being self defeating and stupid for ages ;)

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • GeezaTap 18 Dec 2012 17:48:24 288 posts
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    He shouldn't have a passport anyways after he pissed himself on a flight last year (2 years ago?).

    Sean Connery's done the same thing for years yet Salmond never gives him grief.
  • Ginger 18 Dec 2012 18:30:04 6,917 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    You remember that Swiss chap caught speeding in his Merc SLS who was fined CHF600k or something? it was because they have a scale for criminal fines, dependent on the severity of the illegal action but also the income of the perpetrator.

    That struck me as a defensible and moral way to both ensure the super rich don't consider themselevs above the law, and (if you must) take a little cash off them. This though? This is bonkers.
    I'm pretty sure that the Finns have a similar law regarding times relative to income. I always thought it was a pretty elegant solution, but I'm sure a clever accountant could show an individual had no income or assets pretty easily, so you'd still need changes to tax law.

    London open taekwondo champion

  • JoeBlade 18 Dec 2012 18:52:52 2,635 posts
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    Bizarre choice in moving to Belgium, a country with marginally less severe taxation on the rich than what Hollande has imposed in France.
    Ok, bit of an overstatement but still, taxes are pretty murderous over here.

    EU nation (= no migration issues) with French as an official language + right next door to his home turf I guess...
  • SYS64738 18 Dec 2012 19:07:14 1,713 posts
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    Belgium's been a tax haven for the well off for ages. No capital gains tax for a start. Not sure what's so bizarre about that.

    PSN: SYS64738_UK

  • Fake_Blood 18 Dec 2012 19:34:16 4,450 posts
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    You guys are missing the point here, Belgium is just super awesome.
  • neilka 18 Dec 2012 19:55:38 16,531 posts
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    #I am me
    And you are you
    And you are I
    And I am too
    But someone obscures my view of you
    Really, who?
    Gerard Depardieu!#

    BAAANG!!!!! EXPLOTION!!!!!

  • grey_matters 18 Dec 2012 20:03:43 3,863 posts
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    :D
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