Google campaign for free and open internet Page 2

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  • kalel 3 Dec 2012 15:48:24 88,336 posts
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    How exactly does this issue affect Google's finances? As said, they already operate in many countries that actively censor and limit the internet. How do they profit from this initiative?

    I'm not saying they don't, and I'm not so naive as think Google are being totally altruistic, but again, it seems quite easy to allude to their sinister motives without actually being specific about them.

    I also like how some are pointing at Google being a profitable business as being the REAL EVIL here compared to "state censorship". Some perspective needed there.
  • b0rk 3 Dec 2012 15:48:55 2,875 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    As easy as there being no censorship in the first place?
    Well, no. It isn't as easy getting onto The Pirate Bay as it used to, now it takes one more click to get to it. See what I'm getting at? People will find a way not matter what happens.
  • Deleted user 3 December 2012 15:52:38
    kalel wrote:
    How exactly does this issue affect Google's finances? As said, they already operate in many countries that actively censor and limit the internet. How do they profit from this initiative?

    I'm not saying they don't, and I'm not so naive as think Google are being totally altruistic, but again, it seems quite easy to allude to their sinister motives without actually being specific about them.

    I also like how some are pointing at Google being a profitable business as being the REAL EVIL here compared to "state censorship". Some perspective needed there.
    Not that it's particularly comparable, but I found it funny when people started claiming Humble Bundle are now the most evil company in existence because they did a DRM, Windows only bundle with THQ. Which also turned out to be massively, massively successful.

    Some people seem to think that the business of making money is all 80s suits and Michael Douglas chanting "GREED IS GOOD", and that everyone who wants to make a profit follows Machiavelli's The Prince to the letter. It's weird.

    Edited by meme at 15:53:34 03-12-2012
  • kalel 3 Dec 2012 15:52:39 88,336 posts
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    B0rked_Gamer wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    As easy as there being no censorship in the first place?
    Well, no. It isn't as easy getting onto The Pirate Bay as it used to, now it takes one more click to get to it. See what I'm getting at? People will find a way not matter what happens.
    Try getting onto Pirate Bay from North Korea. See how many clicks that is.

    I feel like you're slightly missing the bigger picture here anyway. This isn't about access necessarily. It's about what's legitimate. Is it ok to make all gay and lesbian sites illegal if people can still access them through dodgy means? Is it ok to limit a country's news source to one government controlled channel if you can still get other channels using an illicit VPN? etc etc
  • LeoliansBro 3 Dec 2012 15:54:08 44,503 posts
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    There's also a bit of a difference between 'no censorship' and 'no IP protection'. Approving of the OP and the message behind it doesn't mean I endorse piracy.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • nickthegun 3 Dec 2012 15:55:32 60,415 posts
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    Dear everyone.

    For your convenience, pretend this campaign has been put forward by valve, Nintendo or a local nunnery.

    Edited by nickthegun at 15:56:03 03-12-2012

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Deleted user 3 December 2012 15:58:35
    It being good for Google is irrelevant, it's good for the individuals. Google has lots of money and influence so they are in a position to make a difference.

    Your mother has to have been drinking bleach while you were in the womb to not grasp those basic facts.
  • b0rk 3 Dec 2012 15:59:22 2,875 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    B0rked_Gamer wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    As easy as there being no censorship in the first place?
    Well, no. It isn't as easy getting onto The Pirate Bay as it used to, now it takes one more click to get to it. See what I'm getting at? People will find a way not matter what happens.
    Try getting onto Pirate Bay from North Korea. See how many clicks that is.

    I feel like you're slightly missing the bigger picture here anyway. This isn't about access necessarily. It's about what's legitimate. Is it ok to make all gay and lesbian sites illegal if people can still access them through dodgy means? Is it ok to limit a country's news source to one government controlled channel if you can still get other channels using an illicit VPN? etc etc
    I'm not missing the whole picture here, I understand and fully endorse the message Google is promoting of course, but I don't like who is promoting the message and at the end of the day it is ultimately impossible to keep information from people on the internet.
  • kalel 3 Dec 2012 16:06:17 88,336 posts
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    And because you keep on saying how it's "impossible to keep information from people on the internet", I feel you're missing the point. Weather or not that is true (I don't think it is), it's the attempt to do it that is the issue, especially as it will work for the vast majority of people who don't know how to work around these things (which is significantly harder to do outside of countries where you have freedom of internet).

    Also I really have no idea what you mean by "Google: you are the product".
  • Deleted user 3 December 2012 16:11:30
    Any attempt to suppress or outlaw things that aren't morally wrong ultimately results in two outcomes - the fostering of a criminal network to bypass it (which, by virtue of being organised crime, usually involves other criminal activities alongside it) and the corruption of those in charge of it. Look at pretty much any sort of prohibition or mass censorship in history and you'll see an identical pattern. Saying there'll be ways around it isn't a solution.
  • b0rk 3 Dec 2012 16:23:20 2,875 posts
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    Sigh, look I'm not saying it's the best solution but it is a possible workaround should things go bad. At the end of the day internet censorship is a bad thing, I just wish it was someone else doing this campaign is all.

    @kalel

    You don't understand "Google: you are the product"? That actually saddens me. You could always Google it. :D
  • kalel 3 Dec 2012 16:32:21 88,336 posts
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    B0rked_Gamer wrote:
    You don't understand "Google: you are the product"? That actually saddens me. You could always Google it. :D
    Right, got it.

    It is the world we live, and Google are frankly more open than most about how they use your data - I'm thinking Tescos, Boots etc.
  • Deleted user 3 December 2012 16:32:34
    Post deleted
  • Deleted user 3 December 2012 16:33:35
    Yeah, I don't think google have ever been less than completely open about their gathering and use of data.
  • Deleted user 3 December 2012 16:33:48
    kalel wrote:
    B0rked_Gamer wrote:
    You don't understand "Google: you are the product"? That actually saddens me. You could always Google it. :D
    Right, got it.

    It is the world we live, and Google are frankly more open than most about how they use your data - I'm thinking Tescos, Boots etc.
  • b0rk 3 Dec 2012 16:38:07 2,875 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    B0rked_Gamer wrote:
    You don't understand "Google: you are the product"? That actually saddens me. You could always Google it. :D
    Right, got it.

    It is the world we live, and Google are frankly more open than most about how they use your data - I'm thinking Tescos, Boots etc.
    Sure it's the world we live in but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Boots eh? I'll have to look into that.
  • oceanmotion 3 Dec 2012 16:41:49 16,001 posts
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    You are the product to Google but they don't sell you to others, just ads targeted to your profile. I think that's how it works, still profiling you but only Google have it and whatever gov agency.
  • kalel 3 Dec 2012 16:46:32 88,336 posts
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    Any company that has a loyalty card is likely to make a fortune off the back of selling your data. I think I read once that it's Tesco's greatest source of income.

    I personally think Google's use of data is fairly benign. They use it to make advertising less random and more likely to resonate with me. That's good for advertisers as their ads are more likely to hit their targets, and it's good for consumers as we're more likely to ses ads that are useful to our lives.

    Of course to think that's good you have to accept that ads are an ok thing, but marketing and advertising are part and parcel of capitalism, and I frankly quite like capitalism. I honestly think Google are towards the lighter side of the force in this respect, although again, one or two things they've done I take slight issue with.
  • b0rk 3 Dec 2012 16:49:12 2,875 posts
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    oceanmotion wrote:
    You are the product to Google but they don't sell you to others, just ads targeted to your profile. I think that's how it works, still profiling you but only Google have it and whatever gov agency.
    They sell the information to their advertisers.
  • kalel 3 Dec 2012 16:55:09 88,336 posts
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    B0rked_Gamer wrote:
    oceanmotion wrote:
    You are the product to Google but they don't sell you to others, just ads targeted to your profile. I think that's how it works, still profiling you but only Google have it and whatever gov agency.
    They sell the information to their advertisers.
    And what do you think companies do with this information? Voodoo dolls? Identity theft? Clones?

    Or is it that they use this information to develop products and services that address consumer needs and demands?

    Full disclosure, I word in brand design and am the kind of person that uses this data. Honestly, it's nowhere near as sinister as people think. Having your "personal data sold" sounds scary but the reality is it's completely impersonal (the data just adds up to number on charts, it's not about individuals) and ultimately it's about giving consumers want they want (and thereby selling stuff and making money).

    And again, if you don't like that idea then fair enough, but that's capitalism, and frankly anyone that likes playing video games, or watching movies, or eating nice food, or wearing cool clothes or whatever benefits from this dark and sinister system.

    Edited by kalel at 16:55:37 03-12-2012
  • b0rk 3 Dec 2012 16:56:17 2,875 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Any company that has a loyalty card is likely to make a fortune off the back of selling your data. I think I read once that it's Tesco's greatest source of income.

    I personally think Google's use of data is fairly benign. They use it to make advertising less random and more likely to resonate with me. That's good for advertisers as their ads are more likely to hit their targets, and it's good for consumers as we're more likely to ses ads that are useful to our lives.

    Of course to think that's good you have to accept that ads are an ok thing, but marketing and advertising are part and parcel of capitalism, and I frankly quite like capitalism. I honestly think Google are towards the lighter side of the force in this respect, although again, one or two things they've done I take slight issue with.
    Fair enough, to each their own. Personally ads make my skin crawl, so does capitalism.

    /breaks out into The Internationale
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