Next-gen backwards compatibility Page 4

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  • LeoliansBro 23 Nov 2012 10:00:12 41,864 posts
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    vizzini wrote:
    @LeoliansBro

    The promise of gaming on iOS/apple consoleis the main foundation of Apple's overvalued shares,
    No it isn't. Apple's share price recovery came from making some highly desirable, fashion conscious tech allied with simple functionality and Jobs' genius in convincing the public that what he was selling was something you had to have. Games are nothing to do with it. Apps, maybe.

    Gaming is super important in the world now :)
    No it isn't. More important, but still not very important.

    But a desire to garner added developers from Droid/iOS familiar with ARM, to launch Playstation Mobile was probably the overriding factor. Not wanting to place all their eggs in one basket while the company's overall finances were making a loss would been a large factory in risk management to.
    So, Sony, having ensured technological dominance and superiority for generations by frontloading the R&D costs for developing the Cell, then decided it was too risky, and went with conventional alternatives? Seems a bit of a waste of time then, hey?

    Edited by LeoliansBro at 10:04:29 23-11-2012

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • RobTheBuilder 23 Nov 2012 12:26:16 6,521 posts
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    @vizzini @mal

    But the gamble wasn't about piracy, it was about Sony wanting the big piles of cash that Toshiba got for DVD, not realising that people were never as likely to upgrade to Blu Ray as they were DVD.

    Without Blu Ray the PS3 would have been out sooner, cheaper, have higher production numbers initially, and have faster loading times. It's hard not to see that adding notably to its sales.
  • mal 23 Nov 2012 13:26:40 21,958 posts
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    I'd not heard of Toshiba getting the majority of the DVD money? Is that true? From what I can see, Sony, Philips, Tosh and Panasonic all own rights to DVD, and additionally Sony owns many of the studios that put out DVDs.

    But I agree that Sony thought it could repeat the success of CDs, and DVDs (with its PS2). The decision to go Bluray wasn't just about games consoles though, and given it was designed while Sony had a massive chunk of the market share in consoles, they probably didn't see the PS3 not selling as well as the competition as a serious likelihood. But gamers are even more fickle than the general population, I suspect (Nintendo gamers excepted, of course).

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  • RobTheBuilder 23 Nov 2012 13:33:39 6,521 posts
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    @mal Hmm, I read that from a few sources over the years, but can't see a reference to it at the moment. Either way, solely owning the rights to Blu Ray would have been seen as a money maker, except it was a flawed idea.

    Sony planned poorly, and underestimated Microsoft and Nintendo.
    You could argue they were even a bit arrogant, and we know from Nintendo past what happens when you get arrogant.
  • Psychotext 23 Nov 2012 13:46:58 52,781 posts
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    Thread seems a bit calmer now, and yeah, Toshiba got the lion's share of DVD revenue. As it stands, blu-ray is worth about $40m a year in licensing revenue for Sony (partly because they share it with so many other companies, partly because it's cheap to licence, partly because it's no-where near as popular as DVD was).

    Obviously that's a drop in the ocean compared to what winning the format war cost them.
  • Lyserberg 23 Nov 2012 14:13:24 349 posts
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    Why people are talking about blurays and Apple devices ? O_o...
    Anyways, i see this whole backwards compatibility more of a budget drainer and a true holding back feature to be had on a console, if the PS4 or the XBOX 3 aims a perfect backwards compat features with improved graphics (Improved AA, or higher res...etc) they are definatly obliged to add virtually a "PS3 or an XBOX 360"-like components to achieve this, or at least use a stricted hardware that will hold back the console and will have the same strenghts and weaknesses of the previous hardware...
    So what i would say to you guys, don't sell your 360s, PS3s or any other console you happen to have if you're worried about this, because if eliminating backwards compat out of their plans is helping them improve the hardware, the software and the SDK involved in it, i'm totally in, screw it and make us a very flexible, very developer friendly and very capable next-gen console without worrying about this hassle-full adventure of trying to make console backwards compat, which IMO (and it's a bit the reality of things) is holding back the next-gen hardware more than anything else...

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  • Zomoniac 23 Nov 2012 16:15:50 7,402 posts
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    I didn't care about PS3 BC because the PS2 slim was so ludicrously small that it could sit alongside everything else without a problem. Keeping even the smaller versions of PS3 and 360 out takes up half a TV stand. Though I can store them away and dig them out when need be, just like I do the N64 and Saturn, it's not a problem. What is a problem is if they turn off all the online authentication servers and my 360 dies and it becomes impossible to play them again.
  • Psychotext 23 Nov 2012 16:26:48 52,781 posts
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    doctor_fraud wrote:
    Does anyone even care about backwards compatibility these days anyway ?
    I'll be massively pissed off if I can't play my XBLA and PSN games on the 720 / PS4.
  • RobTheBuilder 23 Nov 2012 16:29:19 6,521 posts
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    @doctor_fraud People always want backwards compatibility, it's only cost that prevents it being standard.

    It means I'm going to have to keep my Wii for GC games for one...
  • LeoliansBro 23 Nov 2012 16:39:18 41,864 posts
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    @vizzini mate, I'd head over to this thread, there's a bloke in there thinks Nintendo have got it right and Sony are totally wrong this gen.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • crashVoodoo 23 Nov 2012 19:06:37 3,821 posts
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    doctor_fraud wrote:
    @Psychotext If downloads aren't carried over that will be a piss take though I wonder if the PS1 and PS2 classic downloads will work on PS4 some how.

    @RobTheBuilder I'm not saying I don't want it but unlike the PS2 era theres very few games I'd want to replay. The ones I'd want to replay are RDR, Max Payne 3 and GTA V.
    I said sonething along these lines 3 pages ago.  Ive got loads of content tied up in my live account (dlc, xbla and full games) and I will be pissed if any of this doesn't transfer over to the next console.

    Edited by crashVoodoo at 19:07:28 23-11-2012

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  • BillyBoozze 25 Nov 2012 01:42:12 7 posts
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    homelessbaby wrote:
    @Syrette @bitch_tits_zero_nine @revan8 The only fighting game I play is Tekken. I'm not one for fightsticks, and it's kinda made for the Playstation controller.

    I did enjoy the Xbox controller for Skate, though. And it's a better weight than the Dualshock 3.

    Anyway, this all sounds very dicey. I guess the approach to take would be I can always play digital games on the console I bought them on and backwards-compatibility is a luxury. Still, it'd be cool.

    Also after all of this beating around the bush I might just end up getting a Vita. It would feel weird to spend £200 on a 6-year old console. The Xbox at least was a £125 4gb with no mandatory installs.
    I think it would be way better if ppl just invested in pc's bcz with the current trend consoles are slowly moving towards being pc's

  • Deleted user 2 December 2012 17:11:08
    I'm hoping that the next gen actively seeks and sells itself on backwards compatibility. A bit fed up of purchasing games, and then them becoming obselete down the line.

    Be nice if i could have a system that could play everything from that system history. I accepted the HD remakes, i think they done a good job of up porting titles. Now we are in the HD age if they up ported stuff from this gen to next, i be pissed. Theres no need.

    Thinking of getting a vita, mainly so i can have a library of ps1, psp and vita games that i can use forever. And the same with the wii U.

    I hope as well, all the money i spent on psn, i can just transfer or re-download everything i brought from the store again.

    games can last for a long time, but consoles not so much. Theres so many games from the ps2 era i want to replay, but not willing to really reinvest in a ps2 and seeking out the game on ebay to do that.

    With the digital market being probably the fore front of next gen consoles. i half expect a store that i can (Re)download stuff i own. I'm worried that with the rumours of changes to the next ps4 architecture i'm going to have to rebuy shit again.
  • jabberwoky 3 Dec 2012 11:59:25 441 posts
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    If I own a 360 and the nextbox is bc, my natural upgrade is a nextbox. If its not bc then I am totally open about the next machine I buy. Simple economic fact.

    As a side note it was sonys taking bc out of their machine that pushed me to the dark side, and I have been shovelling microsoft money for the last 5 years like there was no tommorow, instead of sony. Simple brutal fact.
  • Widge Moderator 3 Dec 2012 12:04:29 12,595 posts
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    If the Vita is form to go by, I think you will have some store compatibility with the PS4, except about 6 months down the line, and gradually drip fed amounts.

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  • convercide 23 May 2013 09:13:52 5,748 posts
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    Is the lack of backward compatibility really an issue? Not many consoles have actually been backwards compatible. Is the uproar mainly due to the popularity of the PS1 and then consumers buying PS2's en masse and assuming that it's actually the norm? I couldn't play Master System games on a Mega Drive (ok, I know you could get the Power Base Converter but that was basically only compatible with the Mega Drive's first design and was extra expense). Do people just expect it for free?

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  • sega 23 May 2013 09:24:08 548 posts
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    Yes it's important. I have thousands of pounds worth of games (mostly digital) and I'm not a kid anymore who can have a ton of consoles around the TV. Just because consoles have done this in the past doesn't mean we should just accept it forever. It's time for games to grow up and give the past (and in this case, the present) more respect, along with more respect for the consumer.
  • Dizzy 23 May 2013 09:29:16 2,443 posts
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    I am seriously considering skipping next gen because of no BC and sticking to PC. If MS brings out a cheapo 360-mini as rumoured, I will get that as an XBLA box and X1 and PS4 can kiss my ass goodbuy.

    I will just spend my money on an Oculus Rift instead.

    Edited by Dizzy at 09:31:29 23-05-2013
  • Spunkweazle 23 May 2013 09:32:37 470 posts
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    For certain games I think it is an issue, this gen will end with a massive library of games that do not use the available power because they don't need it. How will a next gen console improve games like Limbo or braid?

    The xbone launch started with a film from 2009, have special effects plateaued? Because I believe certain genres of game have

    Why are hd remakes considered relevant this gen, but won't be after Christmas.

    And the comparisons with previous generation jumps just don't hold water because of the shear amount of downloaded content floating about

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  • Psychotext 23 May 2013 09:43:51 52,781 posts
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    sega wrote:
    Yes it's important. I have thousands of pounds worth of games (mostly digital) and I'm not a kid anymore who can have a ton of consoles around the TV. Just because consoles have done this in the past doesn't mean we should just accept it forever. It's time for games to grow up and give the past (and in this case, the present) more respect, along with more respect for the consumer.
    Yup. :(

    Whole thing has seriously reduced the likelihood that I even get a next gen console... and even if I did I'd certainly think twice about buying anywhere near as many digital downloads again.
  • Frogofdoom 23 May 2013 09:50:04 801 posts
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    yeah i would pretty much be writing off around 300 games when i say goodbye to my 360. My ps3 wont be nearly as many but still some damn fine exclusives.

    3 consoles and my pc in front of the tv is pretty much the limit for me so will be some tough choices.
  • sega 23 May 2013 09:52:47 548 posts
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    Yeah same here. I'm not sure what to do either. Got really excited this generation re-buying all my favourite games like Rez, Nights, Jet Set Radio, Daytona USA and Guardian heroes thinking "yes, this is it, finally a version of these games I can keep forever" but no. Looks like the easiest option is still going to be to dig out the Saturn and the Dreamcast in the next generation.
  • DFawkes 23 May 2013 09:54:36 22,059 posts
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    If I'm buying a new box, I want it to go where the old box went. As such, if it doesn't play stuff from the old box, I'd prefer to wait until there are enough games out to warrant the replacement of the old box. Moot point for me given I don't have the old box, but I did keep some of my favourite 360 games because I knew I'd want to come back to them. Now I know Xbox One won't play them I'd be more inclined to just buy a 360 again. Not that Microsoft will mind, still a sale for them.

    I just feel that, for a system designed to be the One go-to box for all your movie, music, TV and game needs, not having it backwards compatible (so it can't be that One box) seems a bit contradictory. Don't get me wrong, I realise there are technical issues in the way, and it might've only been used by the minority. Still disappointing though.

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  • Ironlungs76 23 May 2013 09:55:59 4,930 posts
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    convercide wrote:
    Is the lack of backward compatibility really an issue?
    From a personal point of view I'd miss it immensely. I still regularly play Morrowind and KOTOR's on 360 and my old PSX games on my PS2 (FF's, Tomb Raider etc).

    If I theoretically bought a XB1 I'd probably like to revisit Skyrim, Dark Souls etc without the necessity of having to have older machines under the TV as well as the new gadgets.

    Hardly a deal-breaker in my eyes but certainly an inconvenience.
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