Building A Gaming PC - Parts Advice Needed Page 23

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  • Dirtbox 2 Mar 2014 21:49:38 77,477 posts
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    terminalterror wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    I'd avoid the AMD junk for all the reasons I've posted numerous times in this and similar threads.
    I haven't posted on the EG forums in bloody ages. I had a quick google for posts by you about AMD, and on the graphics card front you seem very unimpressed by their drivers. I couldn't find anything specifically on AMD vs Intel by you. Do you mind linking to an example?

    If I'm much better off not going with AMD for either GPU or CPU, can somebody suggest an alternative (including motherboard for the latter)?
    I'm more talking about the GPUs, but I've come a cropper before with AMD's CPUs as they don't support virtualisation, which is something I needed at the time and so haven't used them since. Lately having read up on them and looked at other people's problems, I don't in any way trust their manufacturing quality any more either, they're poorly made, inconsistent and cheap for a reason.

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  • terminalterror 2 Mar 2014 22:00:03 18,937 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    terminalterror wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    I'd avoid the AMD junk for all the reasons I've posted numerous times in this and similar threads.
    I haven't posted on the EG forums in bloody ages. I had a quick google for posts by you about AMD, and on the graphics card front you seem very unimpressed by their drivers. I couldn't find anything specifically on AMD vs Intel by you. Do you mind linking to an example?

    If I'm much better off not going with AMD for either GPU or CPU, can somebody suggest an alternative (including motherboard for the latter)?
    I'm more talking about the GPUs, but I've come a cropper before with AMD's CPUs as they don't support virtualisation, which is something I needed at the time and so haven't used them since. Lately having read up on them and looked at other people's problems, I don't in any way trust their manufacturing quality any more either, they're poorly made, inconsistent and cheap for a reason.
    Thanks.

    Can you (or anybody else) recommend what NVidia card would be best in the ~£130 price band the Radeon R9 270 lives in (give or take a bit if it helps)? The GeForce GTX 660 is about that price and seems to benchmark comparably.

    Regarding CPUs, it looks like I'd have to spend quite a bit more to get an Intel one instead of an AMD one, and as I'm not a huge fan of Intel's business practices (e.g. what got them their massive fine from the EU - for illegally bunging money at retailers and computer builders not to use AMD processors) they'd have to be at least a similar price for me to consider them.
  • Fake_Blood 2 Mar 2014 22:11:05 4,077 posts
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    I think you can get an nvidia 750 ti for that price.
  • Dirtbox 2 Mar 2014 22:16:06 77,477 posts
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    You could probably get a 660ti for that price.

    ed: yep

    Edited by Dirtbox at 22:17:12 02-03-2014

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  • Mackhaley 2 Mar 2014 22:22:36 5 posts
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    @Dirtbox hi do u know how to post a message to everyone I'm new I don't know how
  • Dirtbox 2 Mar 2014 22:23:38 77,477 posts
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    @Mackhaley I dunno, ask your main account.

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  • Arrr9 2 Mar 2014 22:38:51 401 posts
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    @terminalterror I've had nothing but AMD graphics cards apart from the last one which was a 660 that was delivered totally knackered. Ordered a 7950 and all is fine. I realise this may be down to a courier being cack handed with it but just wanted to stand up for poor AMD. Never had a problem with them myself but I guess I don't use my PC for work related stuff - mostly gaming.

    Never once had a problem gaming with AMD cards.
  • Dirtbox 2 Mar 2014 22:48:44 77,477 posts
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    So you're saying you don't have any basis for comparison? That's not very useful.

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  • Arrr9 2 Mar 2014 22:51:55 401 posts
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    I'm saying I've never had any problems with AMD cards.
  • ResidentKnievel 2 Mar 2014 23:20:38 6,126 posts
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    Intel versus AMD gaming benchmarks

    From a year a go, so it's comparing AMD's current fx cpu's and Intel's CPU's from 1-2 years a go and not many multi-core games, but it shows an i3 is about on par or better than an 8350 for gaming.

    For demanding games going forward that utilize multiple cores, such as Planetside 2, an i3 is still better than an 8350.

    So in conclusion, only get an AMD CPU if you're a bit of a mong and don't do research, like what I did.

    Edited by ResidentKnievel at 23:22:19 02-03-2014

    [code]Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Unlike yourself, I don't have a weird obsession with any platform.[/code]

  • Dirtbox 2 Mar 2014 23:26:54 77,477 posts
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    Arrr9 wrote:
    I'm saying I've never had any problems with AMD cards.
    That's fair enough. I've had a couple of AMD/ATi cards that weren't a particular problem, but I've also had sporadic horror shows from most, up to the point where I wouldn't install a new driver unless I absolutely had to.

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  • terminalterror 3 Mar 2014 00:06:44 18,937 posts
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    ResidentKnievel wrote:
    Intel versus AMD gaming benchmarks

    From a year a go, so it's comparing AMD's current fx cpu's and Intel's CPU's from 1-2 years a go and not many multi-core games, but it shows an i3 is about on par or better than an 8350 for gaming.

    For demanding games going forward that utilize multiple cores, such as Planetside 2, an i3 is still better than an 8350.

    So in conclusion, only get an AMD CPU if you're a bit of a mong and don't do research, like what I did.
    The Tom's Hardware one says that Intel is a smidge better than AMD at the i3 price point (for gaming), but doesn't imply you'd have to be a mong to get an AMD.

    The conclusions page of the second article you linked to has AMD (FX 4300) then Intel (i3 4130) then AMD (FX6300) at the top of their average performance value chart. If you look at the chart for Metro Last Light, the FX6300 comes top and outperforms the similarly priced i3 4130.

    I'm willing to accept Intel being marginally better than AMD (at comparable prices), but unless I've missed something in your links, you appear to be overstating your case. It seems like AMD's disadvantage is where multiple cores aren't used properly, and it seems like that should improve over time as games are built to take advantage of the PS4/XBOne.

    Edited by terminalterror at 00:15:26 03-03-2014
  • Dirtbox 3 Mar 2014 00:35:56 77,477 posts
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    An i3 would bottleneck a 660, so I assume that AMD CPU would be considerably worse with the r270.

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  • ResidentKnievel 3 Mar 2014 10:05:08 6,126 posts
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    terminalterror wrote:

    I'm willing to accept Intel being marginally better than AMD (at comparable prices), but unless I've missed something in your links, you appear to be overstating your case. It seems like AMD's disadvantage is where multiple cores aren't used properly, and it seems like that should improve over time as games are built to take advantage of the PS4/XBOne.
    But where they are used properly there's barely any difference between an AMD CPU and Intel one at the same price point. It's better to have a CPU that's strong in both multi-core and single-core situations than one that's only good in multiple core situations.

    I'd rather buy a CPU that's known to be good now than one that may be better in the future in intensive multi-core games but hasn't so far been better in intensive multi-core games.

    A single i3 core is stronger than the entire CPU in the next gen consoles, so what if a cross-gen game maximizes CPU usage in the next-gen consoles? it'll still run smoother on a PC with an i3 at the same settings. BF4 is probably doing that already judging by the big fps dips whenever more than a few things appear on screen on the console versions.

    Edited by ResidentKnievel at 10:06:09 03-03-2014

    [code]Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Unlike yourself, I don't have a weird obsession with any platform.[/code]

  • ResidentKnievel 3 Mar 2014 12:36:40 6,126 posts
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    In an attempt to be actually helpful, if you have to stick to a budget an i3 and 660 combo is your best bet. A 770 + i5 is best value for money is it would probably be quite a while before you feel the need to upgrade and spend more money again.

    [code]Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Unlike yourself, I don't have a weird obsession with any platform.[/code]

  • terminalterror 3 Mar 2014 13:20:14 18,937 posts
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    ResidentKnievel wrote:
    In an attempt to be actually helpful, if you have to stick to a budget an i3 and 660 combo is your best bet. A 770 + i5 is best value for money is it would probably be quite a while before you feel the need to upgrade and spend more money again.
    770 + i5 would add ~£160 to my budget, but I'll have a think if that is manageable. Thanks for all the posts, ResidentKnievel.

    If I went with an i5, would the i5-4570 be the one to go for?
  • ResidentKnievel 3 Mar 2014 13:51:21 6,126 posts
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    The 4570k version which you can overclock?

    An overclocked CPU will help for Wii/GC emulation but doesn't really offer a performance boost in most games over stock. Personally if I was building again I'd get it as I want to play Wii and GC games in the HD's without slowdown.

    [code]Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Unlike yourself, I don't have a weird obsession with any platform.[/code]

  • ResidentKnievel 18 Apr 2014 21:16:11 6,126 posts
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    No 20nm GPU's this year from AMD

    And Given the 750ti is a maxwell part I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia stick with 28nm for their next GPU's, too.

    Nvidia have stated in the past that 20nm is a dead end

    Here's a write up from PC-Perspective about the difficulties of manufacturing on a smaller than 28nm process node

    GPU performance isn't likely to increase anytime soon, which is a shame what with 4k and high framerate monitors starting to become a thing.

    [code]Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Unlike yourself, I don't have a weird obsession with any platform.[/code]

  • viegasn 20 Apr 2014 12:53:32 14,197 posts
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    Just buy 4 Titan Z and shut up! They'll be to of the line for like 1 month man!

    Podcast #49
    Gajo Incrivel em Geral

  • Dirtbox 20 Apr 2014 14:56:10 77,477 posts
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    14k posts in 2 years, no doubt of a similarly high quality. The .pt forum must be a riot.

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  • ZuluHero 26 May 2014 09:46:44 4,023 posts
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    Sorry to bump this old thread.

    I built the DFPC the first time around, and while its been great for the price and the past 2 years its time to upgrade that old G840 cpu.

    Again, price is an issue, hence why I built the PC in the first place (for the princely sum of £287), but I fear that my CPU is bottlenecking most modern games.

    I'm looking to just replace the CPU (I ignored the advice that 4gb RAM was enough and have 8gb atm) and was thinking about an i5 of some description. The problem is there are so many choices!

    Can anyone help me narrow down some of the choices, or help me avoid any of the obvious pitfalls in this potential minefield?

    You can get a Intel Core i5 4440 3.10GHz for ~£128 on ebuyer atm.

    Intel Core i5 4440 3.10GHz

    Reviews seem pretty good, but maybe other people have better advice?

    Thanks in advance guys :)

    EDIT: Just in case you don't know, the main board is a socket 1150 (if that helps) :)

    Edited by ZuluHero at 10:00:36 26-05-2014
  • PirateRoberts 26 May 2014 10:42:26 210 posts
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    ZuluHero wrote:
    Sorry to bump this old thread.

    I built the DFPC the first time around, and while its been great for the price and the past 2 years its time to upgrade that old G840 cpu.

    Again, price is an issue, hence why I built the PC in the first place (for the princely sum of £287), but I fear that my CPU is bottlenecking most modern games.

    I'm looking to just replace the CPU (I ignored the advice that 4gb RAM was enough and have 8gb atm) and was thinking about an i5 of some description. The problem is there are so many choices!

    Can anyone help me narrow down some of the choices, or help me avoid any of the obvious pitfalls in this potential minefield?

    You can get a Intel Core i5 4440 3.10GHz for ~£128 on ebuyer atm.

    Intel Core i5 4440 3.10GHz

    Reviews seem pretty good, but maybe other people have better advice?

    Thanks in advance guys :)

    EDIT: Just in case you don't know, the main board is a socket 1150 (if that helps) :)
    Are you sure about the 1150 socket? DFPC article shows a motherboard that is socket 1155

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-introducing-the-digital-foundry-pc

    So assuming you went with the DFPC motherboard(ASrock H61M-VS) the follow manual

    ftp://europe.asrock.com/manual/H61M-VS.pdf

    states on page 6 the board:

    CPU - Supports 2nd Generation Intel®
    CoreTM i7 / i5 / i3 in
    LGA1155 Package
    - Supports Intel®
    Turbo Boost 2.0 Technology
    - Supports K-Series unlocked CPU
    - Supports Hyper-Threading Technology (see CAUTION 1)

    So if you don't want to check your bios version or update it, and are set for an i5. You can pick from this list of CPUs

    http://ark.intel.com/products/family/59134/2nd-Generation-Intel-Core-i5-Processors#@All


    Or if you are keen to update the bios to a newer version or the latest, then you can pick from this list, by matching bios version or better, to the CPU option.

    http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/H61M-VS/?cat=CPU

    Getting the best out of the CPU might need a bios update and a memory upgrade. Personally, I go for the option within your budget that has the largest L1, L2, L3 cache, in that order of priority; short of looking at gaming benchmarks for each and every CPU.
  • ZuluHero 26 May 2014 10:57:26 4,023 posts
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    Yes you're right. I just did a search on ebuyer for a 1155 socket i5, and that one still comes up. I guess i was just seeing the price and not paying attention.

    Thanks for all the links, and the advice, its all a big help!
  • PirateRoberts 26 May 2014 11:06:58 210 posts
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    No worries, hope you get through the minefield of options to get a CPU that (fits,) works well and doesn't break the bank. Good luck.
  • ZuluHero 26 May 2014 11:46:42 4,023 posts
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    @PirateRoberts Well you've already helped me avoid the first one ;)
  • Bremenacht 26 May 2014 11:46:51 17,613 posts
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    Good job PirateRoberts turned up, and not vizzini.
  • richardiox 26 May 2014 11:51:54 5,547 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    Good job PirateRoberts turned up, and not vizzini.
    Agreed. Vizzini would have nothing to contribute to a pc gaming thread as he's dismissed Pc gaming as something he gave up on when HL2 came out, about 10 years ago.
  • Banyans 6 Jun 2014 16:44:27 49 posts
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    Hi guys, quick bit of advice needed.
    Just got hold of an old gaming pc for a small amount.

    Athlon II x2 2.2
    Asrock m3aucc motherboard
    4GB ram
    GPU 4850HD

    Looking to mainly upgrade the CPU and after checking the specs of the motherboard im restricted to Athlon, Phenom and Sempron processors. Anyone had any experience with the Athlon II x4 CPU or the Phenom II X4?

    I am assuming that the GPU is pointless upgrading without a CPU upgrade first.

    Thanks!

    Edited by Banyans at 16:46:24 06-06-2014
  • Dirtbox 6 Jun 2014 16:54:41 77,477 posts
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    Doubt you can find a decent CPU that'll fit in the socket.

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  • Sharzam 6 Jun 2014 17:07:40 2,721 posts
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    Can you use the Phenom X6 CPUs?

    As one of them over clocked should give you enough clout in the more modern multi threaded games, i recommend trying to find the 1100T and you will probably need to do a BIOS update.

    Otherwise the best you can probably do is the 965, which is not a bad chip just not very good by today standards.

    edit:

    As anecdotal evidence goes, i had a 965 years ago then upgraded to 1100T as it was the best my motherboard could take. When i did a full system rebuild (i wanted a few other toys) i got a Sandybridge based i5-2500k and i didnt really notice any difference in gaming terms.

    So with my limited experience 965, 1100T, 2500k all behaved the same in the games i was playing at the time and games in general flew. All three of those chips were real troopers at overclocking. What made a real difference was when i changed to SSD and upgraded the GPU.

    But this was all a few years ago and no idea how that system would hold up now.

    Oh and regarding bottlenecks, you right in that a CPU can restrict a GPU. But it is a fairly low ceiling you have to hit. Any semi decent Quad shouldn't hold back standard mainstream graphics cards. Things get 'special' when we start talking fancy high end cards and sli arrangements.

    Edited by Sharzam at 17:22:47 06-06-2014

    Known as 'Sharzam' in 98.5% of games

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