From now on I'll just download the games to save me the hassle that IS DRM Page 3

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  • Deleted user 12 November 2012 10:13:11
    Just because DRM isn't effective doesn't mean its intent isn't to combat piracy. Anyway, PCGA have been adamant that pirating has been in decline since DRM measure have been introduced. Just because it can still be done doesn't mean that less do it.
  • andytheadequate 12 Nov 2012 10:13:42 8,364 posts
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    I can't believe anyone is defending requiring an internet connections when buying a new game. The fact it cost £5 isn't the point, he could easily have paid full pride for it on release and had the same problem. Not everyone who buys games is as knowledgeable. If someone has a decent computer they know can play anything, why would they expect not to be able to install it?

    On a different note, I recently bought the boxed version of empire total war and it didn't come with a cd key so had to contact Sega support to get one after jumping through some hoops. Reminds me of why I gave up on pc gaming all those years ago. DRM is an inconvenience to people who buy the game, I'm sure pirates can still get round it
  • PenguinJim 12 Nov 2012 10:16:33 6,010 posts
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    bad09 wrote:

    Maybe that was the thinking long ago but honestly I can't believe DRM is still there for piracy as that would tell you how utterly clueless this industry really is in "combating" piracy.
    It's not there for piracy.
  • RyanDS 12 Nov 2012 10:17:48 9,857 posts
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    PenguinJim wrote:
    bad09 wrote:

    Maybe that was the thinking long ago but honestly I can't believe DRM is still there for piracy as that would tell you how utterly clueless this industry really is in "combating" piracy.
    It's not there for piracy.
    What is it there for then?

    Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to idiocy etc.
  • andytheadequate 12 Nov 2012 10:23:39 8,364 posts
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    Having to log into an account is obviously for marketing purposes, not piracy. Is that what you mean?
  • bad09 12 Nov 2012 10:23:44 6,255 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Just because DRM isn't effective doesn't mean its intent isn't to combat piracy. Anyway, PCGA have been adamant that pirating has been in decline since DRM measure have been introduced. Just because it can still be done doesn't mean that less do it.
    well if it is ineffective the intent doesn't matter. Surely if it it's pointless and paying consumers make purchase decisions based on what DRM you use it makes no sense to use it?

    As for the PCGA, I don't recall them using DRM as a reason for the decline to honest.
  • bad09 12 Nov 2012 10:25:22 6,255 posts
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    RyanDS wrote:
    PenguinJim wrote:
    bad09 wrote:

    Maybe that was the thinking long ago but honestly I can't believe DRM is still there for piracy as that would tell you how utterly clueless this industry really is in "combating" piracy.
    It's not there for piracy.
    What is it there for then?

    Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to idiocy etc.
    It's there for control. Control over the consumer and how they use the products they buy. Data farming for marketing, internet to watch you play and how you play and phone it home (I'm not making that up BTW).

    Oddly the only thing DRM is useless for IS stopping piracy :)

    Edited by bad09 at 10:26:10 12-11-2012
  • nickthegun 12 Nov 2012 10:27:45 61,325 posts
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    DRM does work, though. Even if you put a minor stumbling block in front of most people, they wont bother. They wont necessarily go out and buy the game but they wont pirate it either.

    The problem with leaving out DRM entirely is that you put a lot of trust in the community and, largely, the community are twats. If you can get something for free, no hassle, most people will take it.

    DRM isnít ideal but what else can you do? I know it penalises legitimate users blar blar blar but they are only being penalised because a large part of the gaming community are freeloaders.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • PenguinJim 12 Nov 2012 10:32:17 6,010 posts
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    RyanDS wrote:
    PenguinJim wrote:
    bad09 wrote:

    Maybe that was the thinking long ago but honestly I can't believe DRM is still there for piracy as that would tell you how utterly clueless this industry really is in "combating" piracy.
    It's not there for piracy.
    What is it there for then?

    Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to idiocy etc.
    It's there for many reasons. To lower/prevent second-hand sales. To show shareholders that "something is being done" about "piracy". To prevent friends from sharing games and make families purchase multiple copies. To track marketplace data and increase information on customers (to our obvious detriment).

    Although I don't know why I need to state the obvious. :|

    Am I really the only person here who's heard of "Chaos Theory"? :p

    Edit: nickthegun, you may want to check out my links, if you know what I mean. WINK

    Edited by PenguinJim at 10:34:04 12-11-2012
  • spamdangled 12 Nov 2012 10:35:05 27,475 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    What is the problem with the old fashioned, offline, "CD-keys"? Is it just easy to hack out/bypass?
    Yes.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • chopsen 12 Nov 2012 10:40:34 16,290 posts
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    That heavily pirated content tends to also sell well does not lead to conclusion that piracy generated sales. Demand acts as a confounder, as both the amount something is pirated and the amount something is bought both depend on how desirable it is.
  • PenguinJim 12 Nov 2012 10:42:59 6,010 posts
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    I thought Karl Pilkington was the only Brit who read the headline instead of the article... :p
  • nickthegun 12 Nov 2012 10:44:26 61,325 posts
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    PenguinJim wrote:

    Edit: nickthegun, you may want to check out my links, if you know what I mean. WINK
    Its a bit of an apples and oranges comparison, though. I download comics and that myself and I do buy more collections as a result, largely because a bound format is more pleasurable to read and looks good on a bookshelf.

    However, I also pirate the odd video game (if its easy) but I never buy a boxed copy of it because I dont give a shit if its sat on my shelf or not and will likely never play it more than once.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • spamdangled 12 Nov 2012 10:47:05 27,475 posts
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    On the flip side, I like to have boxed games on my shelf because you never know if that digital distribution source will always exist or always offer that game.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • disusedgenius 12 Nov 2012 10:48:27 5,625 posts
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    Meh, if we get to tat stage we've got bigger issues.

    Besides, THAT'S when it's time to pirate something.
  • nickthegun 12 Nov 2012 10:48:50 61,325 posts
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    You arenít the most typical example of a collector, to put it midly.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • RyanDS 12 Nov 2012 10:49:49 9,857 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    On the flip side, I like to have boxed games on my shelf because you never know if that digital distribution source will always exist or always offer that game.
    But the box is useless. Thanks to DRM there is no point to having the physical copy at all...
  • PenguinJim 12 Nov 2012 10:49:57 6,010 posts
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    I've pirated probably over a hundred games and bought them all (except Star Trek: Legacy. What a FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!!).

    But I don't tend to apply my own personal habits across global markets. I feel that it's probably slightly more accurate to read thousands of comments and look at reports and statistics to get a more general view.

    And, of course, y'know... Chaos Theory. That famously uncracked game (for over 400 days) that as a result stayed at #1 in the charts for over a year and is perhaps the best-selling PC game of all time.
  • Deleted user 12 November 2012 10:55:12
    Chaos Theory?
  • disusedgenius 12 Nov 2012 10:56:41 5,625 posts
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    #1 in the charts for over a year?

    What chart was that?
  • Deleted user 12 November 2012 10:57:28
    The fact is as with many things related to the internet and ownership, we're in a slightly awkward transitional period at the moment. It is an issue and I can understand the frustrations some have, but it's going to solve itself very quickly. Before long we'll be looking at a completely different picture with regards to the concepts of ownership and distribution, and all of this will be moot. Think Netflix and I suspect you won't be far off.
  • andytheadequate 12 Nov 2012 10:58:21 8,364 posts
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    Piracy can generate sales. A friend of mine pirated minecraft, loved it so much that he bought it. He then bought it on the 360 and convinced 4 friends to buy it, who all went on to recommend it to their friends. The pirated version was basically used as a glorified demo.

    Wasn't it arkham asylum that allowed players to play the game without DRM but wouldn't allow them to glide, so after 45 minutes they got stuck? That's a much better way to combat piracy...
  • spamdangled 12 Nov 2012 11:00:32 27,475 posts
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    andytheadequate wrote:
    Piracy can generate sales. A friend of mine pirated minecraft, loved it so much that he bought it. He then bought it on the 360 and convinced 4 friends to buy it, who all went on to recommend it to their friends. The pirated version was basically used as a glorified demo.
    That argument would hold more water if there wasn't a freely available demo of the game in the first place.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • PenguinJim 12 Nov 2012 11:02:12 6,010 posts
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    CrispyXUK wrote:
    Chaos Theory?
    You young pups! Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory! Ask your grandad! :p


    disusedgenius wrote:
    #1 in the charts for over a year?

    What chart was that?
    Sorry! I was being sarcastic. With 100% effective DRM (0% piracy), you'd expect some sort of increase in sales, wouldn't you? Even (or perhaps especially) with a Splinter Cell game (they were quite popular at the time).
  • spamdangled 12 Nov 2012 11:04:25 27,475 posts
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    PenguinJim wrote:
    CrispyXUK wrote:
    Chaos Theory?
    You young pups! Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory! Ask your grandad! :p
    I think he knew what game you were talking about, but was rather expressing incredulity that a crap port of a last-gen console game would be that much in demand on PC.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • disusedgenius 12 Nov 2012 11:04:39 5,625 posts
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    PenguinJim wrote:
    With 100% effective DRM (0% piracy), you'd expect some sort of increase in sales, wouldn't you?
    An increase from what?
  • andytheadequate 12 Nov 2012 11:05:05 8,364 posts
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    @darkmorgado - how does the demo work for minecraft though? Unless it gives you 10+ hours with the full game then it wouldn't really work. Of course it might not happen like that for everyone, but piracy can undoubtedly generate sales in some instances.
  • bad09 12 Nov 2012 11:06:01 6,255 posts
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    PenguinJim wrote:
    I've pirated probably over a hundred games and bought them all (except Star Trek: Legacy. What a FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!!).

    But I don't tend to apply my own personal habits across global markets. I feel that it's probably slightly more accurate to read thousands of comments and look at reports and statistics to get a more general view.

    And, of course, y'know... Chaos Theory. That famously uncracked game (for over 400 days) that as a result stayed at #1 in the charts for over a year and is perhaps the best-selling PC game of all time.
    :)

    AC2 smashed sales expectations on PC to and Ubisoft often shout about how many Hawx 2 copies get sold.
  • nickthegun 12 Nov 2012 11:07:05 61,325 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Before long we'll be looking at a completely different picture with regards to the concepts of ownership and distribution, and all of this will be moot. Think Netflix and I suspect you won't be far off.
    Completely. I recently discovered the joys of PS+ which is, basically, a monthly sub for free old games. A couple of big, old, releases and a handful of PSN titles for the price of you sub. Its great.

    If there was a Netflix for comics, I would also be all over that. I know marvel do a subs based model, but I donít want a sub here, a sub there, I want a single site that I can pay to stream my pull lists to me.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Deleted user 12 November 2012 11:08:57
    You can't really ever use sales figures as a meaningful stat as it's impossible to have a control.
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