Moot_Point wrote:It was a reasonably crazy thing to say hence why I thought he was just being a sarky git.oi wrote:Well the crux of the OP's argument was about him buying a disc
That had to be sarcasm though, surely.based game that required an internet connection. Not downloading a copy from the pirate bay. So, saying that he wasn't allowed to play it as and when he wants is a bit cuntish, no?
From now on I'll just download the games to save me the hassle that IS DRM • Page 2
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darkmorgado 22,515 posts
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Registered 4 years agoAnyway, Bulletstorm on PC costs about a fiver now (if that), so it's not exactly like he just dropped 40 quid on the thing.Now with 80% more Cthulhu!
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bad09 4,572 posts
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Registered 6 years agodarkmorgado wrote:
Like I said you can blame consumer ignorance if you want doesn't really solve anything just highlights how people just do not expect such shit treatment when they buy entertainment products.
And it isn't retarded to buy a PC game without checking whether or not you will be able to run it?
Not every consumer knows how shit the industry is now, not every consumer has learnt to deal with the crud side of this industry and find out the DRM before details on the game. People don't expect to be held to ransom by an unrelated thing, of course these people find out the hard way like this guy here but I honestly don't think it's their fault. You don't scan every bit of detail when buying a console game and you didn't on PC games years ago.
We shouldn't have to research the stupid ineffective anti-consumer hoops this industry wants for paying consumers while pirates just download a copy with no hassle. I don't see why a consumer needs to research every aspect of a purchase just to ensure it will start. -
kalel 76,447 posts
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Registered 10 years agoI do sympathise with the OP. It's annoying to have that happen (and not such a ridiculously stupid thing to do in fairness, it's probably fairly easily done). It doesn't justify piracy though. -
darkmorgado 22,515 posts
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Registered 4 years agobad09 wrote:
It's been common sense to check the system requirements on a PC game for well over two decades now.
You don't scan every bit of detail when buying a console game and you didn't on PC games years ago.Now with 80% more Cthulhu!
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darkmorgado 22,515 posts
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Registered 4 years agokalel wrote:
Quite.
I do sympathise with the OP. It's annoying to have that happen (and not such a ridiculously stupid thing to do in fairness, it's probably fairly easily done). It doesn't justify piracy though.Now with 80% more Cthulhu!
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bad09 4,572 posts
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Registered 6 years agodarkmorgado wrote:
Well you can just go round looking down on people for making the mistake of thinking something they buy will work out of the box, for me things like this just highlight the problem and how it breeds and encourages piracy rather than stop it.bad09 wrote:
It's been common sense to check the system requirements on a PC game for well over two decades now.
You don't scan every bit of detail when buying a console game and you didn't on PC games years ago. -
bad09 4,572 posts
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Registered 6 years agokalel wrote:
It's all good saying it doesn't justify piracy but when you are stood there with a disc and a key yet you still can't play you do feel stupid for buying.
I do sympathise with the OP. It's annoying to have that happen (and not such a ridiculously stupid thing to do in fairness, it's probably fairly easily done). It doesn't justify piracy though.
It may not justify it but it sure does encourage it, which is the problem. -
Moot_Point 1,071 posts
Seen 6 days ago
Registered 8 months agobigbandluva wrote:
This statement doesn't say in any way he would download future games off TPB. It merely says it would be easier to do so. Time to dismount the horse!
The thing that makes me even more mad is the fact that I would've avoided all of these problems if I were to simply downloading it, free of charge. I know I'm not the first one to make this remark, but something is seriously fucked up when the buying customer gets a product that's worse than the one you find for free on TPB, isn't it? What the fuck is wrong with PC gaming?mowgli wrote: I fucking love willies.
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kalel 76,447 posts
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Registered 10 years agoThe thing is, pretty much everyone who pirates games has an internet connection, so it's not outrageous logic to make that the requirement for verification. -
darkmorgado 22,515 posts
Seen 47 minutes ago
Registered 4 years agobad09 wrote:
I will. PC games are not console games. You ALWAYS need to check that your computer is able to run it. If the game had nothing on the box stating a connection was required to activate the game, then I would have a lot more sympathy with him.
Well you can just go round looking down on people for making the mistake of thinking something they buy will work out of the box
As it is though, this is someone trying to justify piracy after wasting a fiver (big woop) on a game because he didn't think to check the system requirements. He only has himself to blame, frankly.
For me, this isn't that different from a parent that buys 8-year-old Timothy the latest CoD and then complains to the Daily Mail about how violent it is despite the big fat 18 slapped on the box.
Edited by darkmorgado at 09:30:42 12-11-2012Now with 80% more Cthulhu!
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bad09 4,572 posts
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Registered 6 years agoInternet should not be a system requirement though DM, it's not needed to run the game that's a requirement of their useless DRMs. That's the entire point..gif)
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bad09 4,572 posts
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Registered 6 years agokalel wrote:
Never get this.
The thing is, pretty much everyone who pirates games has an internet connection, so it's not outrageous logic to make that the requirement for verification.
The internet is not there as a chain for consumer products. How would you feel if your CDs or DVDs needed "verification"?
Verification happened when the product was bought, a luxury internet service shouldn't become a utility for consumers as the games industry loses it's mind with the power of control it's given itself.
Edited by bad09 at 09:41:00 12-11-2012 -
MetalDog 23,448 posts
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Registered 11 years agoIt's not crystal clear from the boxes what games need Steam/GFWL/FUCKING UBISOFT accounts and it bloody well should be.
As a long time developer, speaking purely for myself, I am more annoyed by DRM than I am by piracy.-- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.
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RyanDS 7,612 posts
Seen 55 minutes ago
Registered 5 years agoI pretty much stopped PC gaming years ago when it got to the point I would buy the game, then go and downloaded the pirate version to get a better experience. Or at the least download a nocd patch. The DRM is really ridiculous.
Almost as bad as the DVD shit that makes you watch 45 seconds of "DONT STEAL THIS!!!!!!" on the version you paid good money for. This is why I have all the super deluxe Star Trek / Babylon 5 etc box sets on my shelves, but I generally watch the actual episodes from torrents I downloaded as I can just start watching and not have to sit through copyright shit. To be fair though DVDs have cut back a lot on that, nowadays it's just a 5 second copyright notice as opposed to screaming about theft. -
darkmorgado 22,515 posts
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Registered 4 years agoMetalDog wrote:
GFWL games come with a huge banner across the front, and "internet connection required" clearly stated on the back. Short of playing an audio recording when someone picks up the box I'm not sure how much more obvious they could make it.
It's not crystal clear from the boxes what games need Steam/GFWL/FUCKING UBISOFT accounts and it bloody well should be.
As a long time developer, speaking purely for myself, I am more annoyed by DRM than I am by piracy.Now with 80% more Cthulhu!
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darkmorgado 22,515 posts
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Registered 4 years agobad09 wrote:
And if you didn't buy it.....?
Verification happened when the product was boughtNow with 80% more Cthulhu!
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MetalDog 23,448 posts
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Registered 11 years agoThat's the fundamental nub of the matter. Piracy protection should inconvenience pirates more than it inconveniences the paying customer. Ideally, protection wouldn't be visible to the paying customer at all.-- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.
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darkmorgado 22,515 posts
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Registered 4 years agoWell yes. I've yet to hear anyone suggest a solution to that problem though.Now with 80% more Cthulhu!
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MetalDog 23,448 posts
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Registered 11 years agodarkmorgado wrote:
Fair enough - and the rest of them captain pedantic?
GFWL games come with a huge banner across the front, and "internet connection required" clearly stated on the back. Short of playing an audio recording when someone picks up the box I'm not sure how much more obvious they could make it.
When you buy boxed copies online the DRM is usually absent from the product description. You often find it mentioned in the rating comments though =)-- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.
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kalel 76,447 posts
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Registered 10 years agobad09 wrote:
You have a valid point that is somewhat undermined by the frothiness of that final statement.kalel wrote:
Never get this.
The thing is, pretty much everyone who pirates games has an internet connection, so it's not outrageous logic to make that the requirement for verification.
The internet is not there as a chain for consumer products. How would you feel if your CDs or DVDs needed "verification"?
Verification happened when the product was bought, a luxury internet service shouldn't become a utility for consumers as the games industry loses it's mind with the power of control it's given itself.
Again, the industry has done this out of necessity. It knows it is annoying customers and even losing them. It would not do that unless if felt it was gaining more than it was losing. Painting this as "greed" is churlish. This is business and any business will seek to stop people getting what they are selling for free. It is fair enough. -
darkmorgado 22,515 posts
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Registered 4 years agoMetalDog wrote:
Not really pedantic, as it's a GFWL game the OP is whinging about because his internet was on the blink.darkmorgado wrote:
Fair enough - and the rest of them captain pedantic?
GFWL games come with a huge banner across the front, and "internet connection required" clearly stated on the back. Short of playing an audio recording when someone picks up the box I'm not sure how much more obvious they could make it.
When you buy boxed copies online the DRM is usually absent from the product description. You often find it mentioned in the rating comments though =)Now with 80% more Cthulhu!
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MetalDog 23,448 posts
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Registered 11 years agodarkmorgado wrote:
Where there's a will there's a way. Look at all the backtracking Ubisoft has done because of customer pressure. Piss people off enough and they simply won't buy.
Well yes. I've yet to hear anyone suggest a solution to that problem though.
The model is very much moving towards 'added value' in the form of microtransactions which is its own can of worms. You need to support what you want with your wallet - nothing else will change things.-- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.
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PenguinJim 3,496 posts
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Registered 6 years agokalel wrote:
Piracy is not the reason for publishers including DRM. Ubisoft have actually proved this.
We wouldn't be in this situation with DRM if people hadn't been pirating so much in the first place.
Wait a second... aren't you one of those people who rips off game developers through taking advantage of obvious pricing errors? -
darkmorgado 22,515 posts
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Registered 4 years agoHow is that ripping off the devs? Retailers purchase stock in advance. Once it's in a shop, the publisher has already been paid.Now with 80% more Cthulhu!
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Chopsen 13,721 posts
Seen 16 minutes ago
Registered 8 years agoWhat is the problem with the old fashioned, offline, "CD-keys"? Is it just easy to hack out/bypass?
Re the better solution: why not encrypt a key part of the disk/software, and that has to be decrypted at install time by using a key, which is basically the CD-key? Different copies of the disk could be provided which are encrypted with different keys, so cutting down on key sharing.
More of a faff for the producer, or course...Thanks for expressing interest in my signature!
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PenguinJim 3,496 posts
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Registered 6 years agodarkmorgado wrote:
If memory serves, it wasn't in a shop.
How is that ripping off the devs? Retailers purchase stock in advance. Once it's in a shop, the publisher has already been paid. -
kalel 76,447 posts
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Registered 10 years agoPenguinJim wrote:
Um, what? Don't think so.kalel wrote:
Piracy is not the reason for publishers including DRM. Ubisoft have actually proved this.
We wouldn't be in this situation with DRM if people hadn't been pirating so much in the first place.
Wait a second... aren't you one of those people who rips off game developers through taking advantage of obvious pricing errors? -
PenguinJim 3,496 posts
Seen 9 minutes ago
Registered 6 years agoAh, my mistake. I thought you'd "stolen" Uncharted: Golden Abyss for 79p. Please accept my apologies and carry on! -
kalel wrote:
Yet DRM time and time again provides little or no protection. Games are up at launch with only a very small handful being delayed yet companies continue with an ineffective method of stopping piracy that also puts many people off buying and actively encourages them to pirate your product??
You have a valid point that is somewhat undermined by the frothiness of that final statement.
Again, the industry has done this out of necessity. It knows it is annoying customers and even losing them. It would not do that unless if felt it was gaining more than it was losing. Painting this as "greed" is churlish. This is business and any business will seek to stop people getting what they are selling for free. It is fair enough.
Maybe that was the thinking long ago but honestly I can't believe DRM is still there for piracy as that would tell you how utterly clueless this industry really is in "combating" piracy. -
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