The EU thread Page 4

  • Page

    of 9 First / Last

  • LeoliansBro 2 Feb 2013 13:04:52 43,228 posts
    Seen 15 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    It's a shame that Billy stepped away from his computer at this exact moment. It's almost as if he doesn't have a counterargument, but I'm sure he's busy doing other things.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 2 Feb 2013 13:23:23 6,654 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 3 years ago
    Playing devils advocate, surely it's possible to believe that because all systems, not just legislative, tend to become smaller as they are refined; the remit for an all encompassing system of government for a group of member states that crucially don't share the same nationalist idea isn't going to work.

    I think the reason it works in the states is because their system seems to have been built to delegate government responsibility from the ground up, and more importantly imo, all Americans buy into the idea of The United States as a union nationalistically.

    The trade agreements arguments issue you are right, but maybe this isn't a boolean issue with one solution?
  • LeoliansBro 2 Feb 2013 13:27:07 43,228 posts
    Seen 15 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    There are arguments either way but I want to see if billy actually has any.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 2 Feb 2013 13:31:23 6,654 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 3 years ago
    Oh right. On channel 4 news I saw an interesting interview with a French correspondent who expressed the opinion that the Conservatives/UKIP are completely missing the point by focusing on the mechanics of the system, that "Europe" is an idea.

    Personally I agree with her that we should stay in; I like the idea of being grouped as a European.

    Edited by bitch_tits_zero_nine at 13:31:44 02-02-2013
  • senso-ji 2 Feb 2013 15:27:29 5,794 posts
    Seen 29 minutes ago
    Registered 6 years ago
    'Our draft Beer is less expensive than your bottled water'
  • Bremenacht 2 Feb 2013 15:45:28 17,613 posts
    Seen 6 minutes ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    Ha! Very good.

    One interesting thing about the anti-EU lobby is that it's the same people who are often anti-city, anti-banking. Yet, do they not see that the only strong British industry that'd be left following an EU exit is banking? Even then, it might not last for long.

    Germany was an economic powerhouse before the Euro. The Euro made it into an even bigger powerhouse with even more exports. The UK wouldn't be able sell a competitive button outside of the UK if it left the EU. Has anyone in the anti-EU lobby been able to provide any non-quack idea of how the UK economy would improve following an EU exit?

    I'm sure I've said it before in this thread: even though the EU can be horrible den of bureaucracy and red-tape, it's probably no worse than the UK government.
  • Moot_Point 7 Feb 2013 15:00:14 3,917 posts
    Seen 17 hours ago
    Registered 2 years ago
    Aah, right thread!

    The British Prime Minister, David Cameron, says he will not accept an EU budget deal unless further cuts are made in negotiations in Brussels. Article.

    ================================================================================

    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • imamazed 7 Feb 2013 15:20:06 5,520 posts
    Seen 6 days ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    Bremenacht wrote:
    Ha! Very good.

    One interesting thing about the anti-EU lobby is that it's the same people who are often anti-city, anti-banking. Yet, do they not see that the only strong British industry that'd be left following an EU exit is banking? Even then, it might not last for long.

    Germany was an economic powerhouse before the Euro. The Euro made it into an even bigger powerhouse with even more exports. The UK wouldn't be able sell a competitive button outside of the UK if it left the EU. Has anyone in the anti-EU lobby been able to provide any non-quack idea of how the UK economy would improve following an EU exit?

    That's a loaded question inviting you to call any non-mainstream idea, or indeed any idea differing to your own, as "quack". I personally believe the UK economy would be improved vastly by following a collevtive socialist model. Not only could this be done outside the EU, the EU actively denies this opportunity. I'm not saying that outside the EU, this country would suddenly turn away from the collection of mail-reading right-wingers that we are, but the EU is certainly a symbolic barrier. That's the main reason I oppose the EU; it pains me the only mainstream anti-EU platform is UKIP. I can't still can't bring myself to vote for them even in EU elections.

    But hey, I'm a quack right?
  • RedSparrows 7 Feb 2013 15:49:17 22,059 posts
    Seen 44 minutes ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    I'm not sure how a 'collective socialist model' can be seen to be helped by leaving the EU in anything but the most abstract terms, at which point staying in the EU would be about as useful/useless.
  • imamazed 7 Feb 2013 15:56:46 5,520 posts
    Seen 6 days ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    @RedSparrows

    On the contrary, the EU prevents such an outlook in terms of the nitty gritty. Being a part of the single market requires a synchronisation of taxation and corporation policy. And the EU is still very much the 'capitalist club' it was in the 70s in that regard. It's not just about ideals; it was largely due to the EU that France could not pursue its socialist intentions in the 80s under Mitterand, and will not be able to see them through currently. Of course, it makes things worse being in the Euro but we are already firmly entrenched in the whole system.

    Not that abstract terms aren't important as well. It really would be impossible to legitimately call yourself a socialist nation belonging to an organisation based on neoliberalism.

    Edited by imamazed at 15:57:18 07-02-2013
  • RedSparrows 7 Feb 2013 15:57:50 22,059 posts
    Seen 44 minutes ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    Sure.

    But what I'm saying is, leaving the EU would be such a small step towards such a society (because the road would be so long and difficult) that it might as well not occur at all - except at an abstract level.

    Edited by RedSparrows at 15:58:07 07-02-2013
  • imamazed 7 Feb 2013 16:03:34 5,520 posts
    Seen 6 days ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    RedSparrows wrote:
    Sure.

    But what I'm saying is, leaving the EU would be such a small step towards such a society (because the road would be so long and difficult) that it might as well not occur at all - except at an abstract level.
    Fair enough. If I'm honest, I do see it as a larger step than perhaps you do, althought I freely admit that it wouldn't be the answer in itself.
  • mcmonkeyplc 7 Feb 2013 16:05:51 39,387 posts
    Seen 2 days ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    Fuck me,

    Tax's are not harmonised in the EU.

    Socialism would be dandy if it ever worked.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • imamazed 7 Feb 2013 16:10:34 5,520 posts
    Seen 6 days ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    Fuck me,

    Tax's are not harmonised in the EU.

    Socialism would be dandy if it ever worked.
    It's not harmonised in terms of legislature, but it very much is in practice. Harmonisation to the market.

    And I cba with that last comment. Lazy, naive...

    Edited by imamazed at 16:11:00 07-02-2013
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 7 Feb 2013 16:18:39 6,654 posts
    Seen 5 hours ago
    Registered 3 years ago
    Isn't the 'harmony to the market' you speak of both a global effect and happening organically; impossible to reverse through legislature I mean? irrespective of whether we want in or out?
  • mcmonkeyplc 7 Feb 2013 16:20:11 39,387 posts
    Seen 2 days ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    Yeah but he doesn't believe in a free market. The free market is evil.

    It is if left alone

    Edited by mcmonkeyplc at 16:21:12 07-02-2013

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • imamazed 7 Feb 2013 16:23:45 5,520 posts
    Seen 6 days ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    bitch_tits_zero_nine wrote:
    Isn't the 'harmony to the market' you speak of both a global effect and happening organically; impossible to reverse through legislature I mean? irrespective of whether we want in or out?
    To a certain extent, yes; it does have a large impact and there's no way you can get away from that. But the global effect is often overstated imo, especially when compared to the supranational behemoth that is the EU. However, I believe the state (outside the EU mind) does hold enough power to reverse the harmonisation trend.
  • mcmonkeyplc 7 Feb 2013 16:25:26 39,387 posts
    Seen 2 days ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    So you think increasing corporation taxes in the UK above the level in the EU is a good thing?

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • imamazed 7 Feb 2013 16:29:51 5,520 posts
    Seen 6 days ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    So you think increasing corporation taxes in the UK above the level in the EU is a good thing?
    We're getting away from the point here really; I don't think my opinion on corporation taxes are strictly relevant. I just think the ability to be able to make big fiscal decisions that deter from the EU standard is important, and allows a more sustainable socialist vision.

    Edited by imamazed at 16:30:06 07-02-2013
  • mcmonkeyplc 7 Feb 2013 16:45:20 39,387 posts
    Seen 2 days ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    We are ABLE to.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • imamazed 7 Feb 2013 16:47:37 5,520 posts
    Seen 6 days ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    mcmonkeyplc wrote:
    We are ABLE to.
    Well, I disagree, clearly. Moving on...
  • LeoliansBro 11 Feb 2013 08:52:01 43,228 posts
    Seen 15 minutes ago
    Registered 8 years ago
    Here's what staying in the EU gives us: bargaining leverage.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • mcmonkeyplc 11 Feb 2013 09:19:58 39,387 posts
    Seen 2 days ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    Shows just how retarded the process is really.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • TheSaint 11 Feb 2013 09:21:52 14,201 posts
    Seen 12 hours ago
    Registered 9 years ago
    All well and good until the Euro MPs hide behind a secret ballot and then vote it down.
  • RedSparrows 11 Feb 2013 09:46:13 22,059 posts
    Seen 44 minutes ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    'And as a result the EUís seven-year budget will cost less than 1% of Europeís gross national income'

    What did it cost before? 1.1%?
  • mcmonkeyplc 11 Feb 2013 10:05:29 39,387 posts
    Seen 2 days ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    It's just a massive game of national dick waving. It needs to be lowered in line with all the other budgets of the EU states but it's such a tiny amount of the overall GDP that it's embarrassing the lengths national leaders go to just so they can go their national legislatives and get a pat on the back.

    They seriously need to refocus it away from CAP faster.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • mcmonkeyplc 11 Feb 2013 10:07:02 39,387 posts
    Seen 2 days ago
    Registered 12 years ago
    Why aren't we competitive... because we seem to care more about making sure our farmers can sit ideal than investing into research and infrastructure.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Moot_Point 11 Feb 2013 10:08:25 3,917 posts
    Seen 17 hours ago
    Registered 2 years ago
    Heh. How can you trust anything the French say when they sell us horse products packaged as beef?

    Article about more countries in the EU being affected by horse sold as beef.

    All processed beef products are safe to eat but consumers must be prepared for more unwelcome news in the ongoing horsemeat scandal, the government says.
    Edited by Moot_Point at 10:26:05 11-02-2013

    ================================================================================

    mowgli wrote: I thought the 1 married the .2 and founded Islam?

  • Bremenacht 11 Feb 2013 12:44:30 17,613 posts
    Seen 6 minutes ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    The EU gives us the right to dine at Germany's table.
  • RedSparrows 11 Feb 2013 13:30:19 22,059 posts
    Seen 44 minutes ago
    Registered 7 years ago
    Moot_Point wrote:
    Heh. How can you trust anything the French say when they sell us horse products packaged as beef?

    Article about more countries in the EU being affected by horse sold as beef.

    All processed beef products are safe to eat but consumers must be prepared for more unwelcome news in the ongoing horsemeat scandal, the government says.
    Free trade + uninterested consumers + unscrupulous providers/middle-men shock!
  • Page

    of 9 First / Last

Log in or register to reply