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Face-offs need to consider PSN versions.

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  • Cjail 6 Nov 2012 09:12:32 12 posts
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    Hi.
    In the past months on the PSN it has been possible to buy full games but never Digital Foundry considered these version in the face-offs.
    If you read face-off regularly, and I do, you will then know that usually Xbox games can be fully installed on the HDD and this usually means an improvement in performance: loading times, texture streaming, etc...
    Now it is possible that PSN versions too have better performance compared to the disc version that allow only partial installation BUT so far DF never considered this in a face-off.
    Full installation on 360 is considered in face-off, is always considered, and it is my opinion that so should PSN versions.
    Nowadays many PS3 players buy form the PSN and if the PSN version performs better than on-disc version we should know it.

    In the future more and more important titles will be available on the PSN as digital download and DF can no longer forget about them.
    Dishonored, Borderlands 2, Assassin's Creed 3 all are available on the PSN and in the face-off the PSN version of this titles, important titles, has never been considered.

    Please DF this can't happen again.
    If there are performance benefits from downloading a PSN version we on PS3 should know it so please DF consider PSN version in the future face-offs as much as you considered full installation for the 360 version.

    I don't know what DF will find out, I really don't know, but whether it will be "good" or "bad" news we should know anyway.

    Edited by Cjail at 09:14:59 06-11-2012
  • darkmorgado 6 Nov 2012 09:17:22 22,604 posts
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    And who is going to buy them all these digital copies? You?

    The differences would be so minor compared to the disc version that barely anyone would notice a second shorter load time here and there, and the number of people who buy their new games through PSN rather than disc-based retail is significantly tiny as to not be worth bothering with.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 09:20:04 06-11-2012

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  • Deleted user 6 November 2012 09:19:12
    They will also have to factor in the extra tenner it costs.
  • Deleted user 6 November 2012 09:21:10
    Nowadays many PS3 players buy form the PSN
    I really don't think you can call it 'many' and I don't think anyone gives a crap about people who can afford £50/60 to download a new game.
  • kosigan 6 Nov 2012 09:22:39 393 posts
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    According to the NFS Most Wanted face-off, the HDD-installed version on 360 loads in half the time the disc-based PS3 version does; comparing a downloaded version to the installed version seems perfectly valid to me.
  • LeoliansBro 6 Nov 2012 09:22:59 35,125 posts
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    Boab wrote:
    They will also have to factor in the extra tenner it costs.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • darkmorgado 6 Nov 2012 09:25:10 22,604 posts
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    /waits for vizzini to turn up and start spouting nonesense about frustem setups

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  • Cjail 6 Nov 2012 09:37:49 12 posts
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    Never heard of "free copies" people?
    DF lives free copies, they don't buy their own copies, nor does EG.
    Every review, every face-off is done with copies that are given them for free by publishers.
    Sony can easily give codes to DF to download PSN version just like they send free PS3 on-disc version .
    Also EG is a partner of Gaikai which, surprise surprise, is now owned by Sony so there are channels they can use to get those PSN codes.

    Also there are sites on the web that make reviews of Televisions that cost even thousandths of Pounds and those sites don't buy those TV.
    They get samples to review, samples for free.
    Sony itself give to those sites their TV to sample so they can afford to give 1 PSN free code to DF for their face-off.


    @darkmorgado
    You say the performance benefits of a PSN will be minor but you don't actually know it, do you?

    Edited by Cjail at 09:40:11 06-11-2012
  • Deleted user 6 November 2012 09:38:22
    Oh lol
  • LeoliansBro 6 Nov 2012 09:43:02 35,125 posts
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    Of course, the face off reviews are solely of interest for people who also get free copies.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • nickthegun 6 Nov 2012 09:50:43 44,590 posts
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    The also need to take into account that its never the newest version, leading to a 15gb download, an hour long install followed by another 1gb's worth of patches to download and install.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    AGP.SRPT

  • Cjail 6 Nov 2012 11:29:12 12 posts
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    ^^^
    Lots of excuses.
    For AC 3 face-off they waited and installed the the day one patch and, really, did you hear them complain? No.

    Also a one hour long installations aren't a problem anyway.
    It's not like DF must spent that hour long (this estimate is also purely arbitrary) staring a the screen doing nothing.
    They can't, let's say, do the face-off of the disc versions and then, when the download is finished, analyze the PSN version.

    DF duty is to inform people, this is what journalists do and they do it well, so waiting for the game to install is a small "price" to pay fo the sake of better information.
  • nickthegun 6 Nov 2012 11:31:49 44,590 posts
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    Cjail wrote:

    Also a one hour long installations aren't a problem anyway.
    Its good to hear that your time is absolutely worthless

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    AGP.SRPT

  • darkmorgado 6 Nov 2012 11:37:56 22,604 posts
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    Cjail wrote:
    ^^^
    Lots of excuses.
    For AC 3 face-off they waited and installed the the day one patch and, really, did you hear them complain? No.

    Also a one hour long installations aren't a problem anyway.
    It's not like DF must spent that hour long (this estimate is also purely arbitrary) staring a the screen doing nothing.
    They can't, let's say, do the face-off of the disc versions and then, when the download is finished, analyze the PSN version.

    DF duty is to inform people, this is what journalists do and they do it well, so waiting for the game to install is a small "price" to pay fo the sake of better information.
    I'll ask you again - who is going to buy all these extra digital copies for Digital Foundry (you're incorrect in thinking they will just be able to get everything for free simply by wishing it so)? What makes you so confident that the difference is significant enough to be worth it?

    And out of EG's readership, roughly what percentage do you honestly believe regularly buy their games digitally through PSN?

    To me, this just sounds like the demands of a fanboy who's butthurt over the fact that the 360 version of multiplat games is so frequently better performing and wants to find anything, no matter how slight, to try and wave around as some sort of advantage.

    Now with 80% more Cthulhu!

  • LeoliansBro 6 Nov 2012 11:39:21 35,125 posts
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    Well, clearly. He's come up with this thread.

    If you're going to include this as a face off, I'd want to know whether it is worth me spending £10 extra and waiting an hour for it to install to get the download version. I couldn't give a shit what the reviewer paid or how long he waited: only what applies to me matters. Because I am the audience.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Deleted user 6 November 2012 11:40:50
    You could also just buy the non gimped 360 version for the same wacky price and save all the hassle.
  • Cjail 6 Nov 2012 11:41:07 12 posts
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    As I said they can use that time to do SOMETHING ELSE.

    When I download a title form the PSN I do something else: cook, read, take a walk, whatever.
    I use that time TO DO OTHER THINGS.

    Edited by Cjail at 11:41:47 06-11-2012
  • darkmorgado 6 Nov 2012 11:42:25 22,604 posts
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    Not to mention the god knows how long it will take to download in the first place. In the time it takes most games to download from PSN I could literally go out to the shops, buy the game on disc, and be back home in a shorter time.

    Now with 80% more Cthulhu!

  • darkmorgado 6 Nov 2012 11:43:34 22,604 posts
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    Cjail wrote:
    I use that time TO DO OTHER THINGS.
    Like creating shit threads?

    Now with 80% more Cthulhu!

  • LeoliansBro 6 Nov 2012 11:54:17 35,125 posts
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    New VW Golf GTi vs Seat Leon Cupra R comparison in Autocar should throw a Ferrari 458 into the mix as well. It is much more expensive, but the test driver got to try all three for free, which is apparently what matters. Also the waiting list for a 458 is over a year, but that's OK as well because I can cook, read, take a walk, whatever.

    Note - after the wait, it turned out the Ferrari drove pretty much identically to the VW and Seat.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • darkmorgado 6 Nov 2012 11:56:35 22,604 posts
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    :D

    Now with 80% more Cthulhu!

  • monkman76 6 Nov 2012 12:01:40 1,835 posts
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    Good grief, is that supposed to be an analogy to the OP?
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 6 Nov 2012 12:02:16 31,315 posts
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    I see someone has already pointed out that EG don't get "free" review copies on all formats. These DF face-offs are done with purchased copies. So yeah, the fact that PSN titles are stupidly priced will be one of the main reasons they don't take downloadable versions into account.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
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  • Dirtbox 6 Nov 2012 12:04:20 73,744 posts
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    These comment cunts need to fuck off back to Africa.

    +1 / Like / Tweet this post

  • LeoliansBro 6 Nov 2012 12:09:31 35,125 posts
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    monkman76 wrote:
    Good grief, is that supposed to be an analogy to the OP?
    I'd love to know where you think it falls down.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Cjail 6 Nov 2012 12:11:05 12 posts
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    darkmorgado wrote:
    I'll ask you again - who is going to buy all these extra digital copies for Digital Foundry (you're incorrect in thinking they will just be able to get everything for free simply by wishing it so)? What makes you so confident that the difference is significant enough to be worth it?

    And out of EG's readership, roughly what percentage do you honestly believe regularly buy their games digitally through PSN?

    To me, this just sounds like the demands of a fanboy who's butthurt over the fact that the 360 version of multiplat games is so frequently better performing and wants to find anything, no matter how slight, to try and wave around as some sort of advantage.
    Really I explained to you that every review site gets codes, copies for free.
    Do you understand it? For free.
    They don't buy copies now and won't have to but them in the future: period.

    Also frankly PSN titles are a reality, they exist, they are downloaded by people and so they should be considered in a face-off.
    Whether you like it or not, whether you do it, PSN IT IS a REALITY and ignoring it is not right.
    You want to know the exact percentage of readers/players that download full titles form the PSN just to discourage DF from considering PSN version in face-off but you could try to see that this coudl help others.
    Personalty I don't download PSN version and yet I think it would be useful to analyze them in face-offs.
    My proposition is completely selfless.
    No greedy goal, not personal gain here: I ask this not for me, but for other people.

    Finally as I said in my OP I don't know what DF will find out analyzing the PSN version, I said it clearly.
    This is why they should do it: the goal is to INFORM people.
    If the PSN version don't benefit from full installation on the HDD so be it: I can live with that BUT I want to know that.

    Edited by Cjail at 12:12:33 06-11-2012
  • LeoliansBro 6 Nov 2012 12:14:08 35,125 posts
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    Oh shut up you tiresome window licking shambles.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • MrTomFTW Moderator 6 Nov 2012 12:17:59 31,315 posts
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    Cjail wrote:
    Really I explained to you that every review site gets codes, copies for free.
    Do you understand it? For free.
    They don't buy copies now and won't have to but them in the future: period.
    Firstly: No they don't.
    Secondly: No, they don't.

    Now I know that's technically the same point, but since it's such a massive flaw in your argument I felt it needed mentioning twice.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
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  • monkman76 6 Nov 2012 12:18:19 1,835 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    monkman76 wrote:
    Good grief, is that supposed to be an analogy to the OP?
    I'd love to know where you think it falls down.
    So the PSN version of a game is as different from the disc version as a Ferrari from a Golf? Right..
  • darkmorgado 6 Nov 2012 12:20:15 22,604 posts
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    Cjail wrote:
    They don't buy copies now and won't have to but them in the future: period.
    Except that they DO buy their own copies now.
    Also frankly PSN titles are a reality, they exist, they are downloaded by people and so they should be considered in a face-off.
    Some people will buy Nickelodeon Dance 2 this week as well, does that mean it should be reviewed?

    Finally as I said in my OP I don't know what DF will find out analyzing the PSN version, I said it clearly.
    Seeing as it will be running identical code to the disc version of the game, the only possible differences will be very minor increases to loading time, and *possibly* streaming of textures. For such utterly minor things, that will only be experienced by a very tiny proportion of buyers, who will be paying a premium price well above the retail cost of a physical copy.

    What next? Should they also compare GOD versions alongside the disc version of the game on Xbox? Because even when it's installed, it still reads data off the disc.

    What about PC? Should they compare Steam versions to GOG versions to Origin to Disc?

    Where does it end? Should they also review the game on every possible SKU? I don't know if there will be a difference, but it's a possibility and some people will be running on those SKUs. So it would be completely selfless to ask for it, wouldn't it?

    What you're asking for is a lot of additional expense and a lot of additional time for what will be trivial differences that will only matter to a small handful of the readership.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 12:22:22 06-11-2012

    Edited by darkmorgado at 12:22:51 06-11-2012

    Now with 80% more Cthulhu!

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