DOTA 2 Page 3

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  • LockeTribal 16 Jul 2013 20:43:31 4,515 posts
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    Screw EuGaS I'm going home!

    Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
  • JiveHound 16 Jul 2013 21:01:41 2,440 posts
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    Righto, I quite enjoyed the Lord of The Rings one with Red, Tom et al (when it worked) so I'll be up for some bona fide noob games.

    When is everyone thinking of having a go?

    Live: Jive Hands
    PSN: Jive_Hands

  • neilka 16 Jul 2013 21:16:08 15,953 posts
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    I keep getting a guild invitation but every time I accept it says failed to join :/

    A map is like comparing velocity and speed.

  • Moz 16 Jul 2013 21:16:23 494 posts
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    @asa_nocturna it's not really any worse then any other multiplayer communities, the difference is that it's easier for people to see what your doing wrong compaired to an fps. And there's a handy mute function :-)
  • Slurmseh 16 Jul 2013 21:39:35 2,339 posts
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    So the test client is on Mac, hooray!

    It runs like shit, boo!
  • RedSparrows 16 Jul 2013 22:34:18 22,722 posts
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    Sorry I disappeared earlier, my PC has started crashing again.

    FFS.
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 16 Jul 2013 22:36:26 38,210 posts
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    Well that didn't go well :(

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • Sharzam 16 Jul 2013 22:40:08 2,876 posts
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    I have no experience in DOTA, but if you want another monkey for the grinder let me know tommorow night.

    Known as 'Sharzam' in 98.5% of games

  • Fat_Pigeon 16 Jul 2013 22:45:26 9,812 posts
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    thanks for firing me an invite to the EG thingy. I may have to make a Sock account to play with you guys if your just starting out though, its addicting once you get into it.

    And Go read the purge guide Welcome to Dota you suck.

    http://www.purgegamers.com/welcome-to-dota-you-suck#.UeW-2_mG13M
  • graysonavich 16 Jul 2013 22:45:54 7,353 posts
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    neilka wrote:
    I keep getting a guild invitation but every time I accept it says failed to join :/
    Working as intended.
  • CloisterBlack 16 Jul 2013 23:50:17 18 posts
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    Just so you know, MrTom, RedSparrows and Preacherman69 can also invite people to the guild, so if you don't feel like adding me in steam, ask one of the guys.

    RedSparrows wrote:
    Sorry I disappeared earlier, my PC has started crashing again.
    FFS.
    MrTomFTW wrote:
    Well that didn't go well :(
    It was a bot match don't sweat it.
    Next time, if we can have a 5 man party and have the time to commit for a full match, we can go co-op matches against bots, instead of practice with bots.
    Exactly the same as practice with bots, except abandonment counts and there is a chance to have item drops (items you otherwise buy from the store) in the end.

    Edited by CloisterBlack at 00:24:42 17-07-2013
  • Fat_Pigeon 17 Jul 2013 11:21:04 9,812 posts
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    and if you have some spare time I recommend watching some of purges videos for the hero you want to play he is really good at explaining what he is doing and more importantly why.
  • rivuzu 17 Jul 2013 11:21:26 1,874 posts
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    ): I really need to get my home internet situation sorted out. Playing via mobile phone tethering just doesn't cut it anymore!
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 17 Jul 2013 11:58:48 38,210 posts
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    CloisterBlack wrote:
    Just so you know, MrTom, RedSparrows and Preacherman69 can also invite people to the guild, so if you don't feel like adding me in steam, ask one of the guys.

    RedSparrows wrote:
    Sorry I disappeared earlier, my PC has started crashing again.
    FFS.
    MrTomFTW wrote:
    Well that didn't go well :(
    It was a bot match don't sweat it.
    Next time, if we can have a 5 man party and have the time to commit for a full match, we can go co-op matches against bots, instead of practice with bots.
    Exactly the same as practice with bots, except abandonment counts and there is a chance to have item drops (items you otherwise buy from the store) in the end.
    I'll just know not to play a match unless I have at least an hour to spare next time :)

    I should play the tutorial as well really.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • shamblemonkee 17 Jul 2013 12:55:36 14,392 posts
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    Once you guys are up to speed game times should typically come down to 30 or 40 mins.
  • Roddles 17 Jul 2013 12:57:14 1,897 posts
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    How long?!
  • rivuzu 17 Jul 2013 13:48:45 1,874 posts
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    30-40mins sounds about right. It goes significantly quicker than you'd imagine.

    Edit: To break it down
    Every 30 seconds 1 creep wave of 3 Melee creeps + 1 Ranged creep spawn at base and run down the lane.
    Every 3 minutes 1 Catapult creep joins that creep wave.
    Every 2 minutes a rune spawns in the river with some temporary game changing effect (double damage, haste, invisibility)
    Roshan respawns every 10 minutes
    Aegis of the Immortal (Roshans item he drops, enabling you to respawn on the spot if you die) only lasts 6 minutes.
    You can only buyback from death every 6 minutes (I think, as of 6.78?)
    Glyph of Fortification to make towers temporarily invulnerable has a cooldown of 5 minutes.

    I think most of those timings are spot on. Also, each creep wave is worth approx. 170-200 gold (maybe more?) if you get the last hit on each one. When you consider basic items like Boots cost 450, and big game items like Blink Dagger cost 2150, you can see how the gathering of funds for items gets a bit drawn out.

    Kills also give gold, but it's dependant on the person your killings level. Never a fixed amount. Normally about 300 to the person who gets the kill, and some assist gold for any friendly heroes around.

    Edited by rivuzu at 13:56:27 17-07-2013
  • Roddles 17 Jul 2013 14:01:21 1,897 posts
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    /uninstall
  • shamblemonkee 17 Jul 2013 14:31:54 14,392 posts
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    heh, daunting eh?

    although my experience is from LoL rather than DOTA2, i'm quite sure this is the same in terms of making time zip by and your evenings dissapear in what seems like a form of time-travel.

    there are a few phases to each game that are typicaly 10 minutes in length each. which means that it's not at all the same thing over and over for the duration.

    the early phases will be about estabilishing a foothold in your lane, working out the capabilities of your opponents by 'poking' then with test attacks, denying the enemy creep kills, securing your own last hits, etc, etc - before moving into a more fluid phase of opportune ganks, buff hunting and finally teamfights to press any advantage or defend incursions.

    i'm sure rivuzu can provide a more definitive breakdown.

    Edited by shamblemonkee at 14:34:18 17-07-2013
  • mskemp85 17 Jul 2013 15:00:32 19 posts
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    Sorry I had to dash off last night. Should be able to commit the time from now on. Should be on later to noob it up some more
  • rivuzu 17 Jul 2013 15:06:50 1,874 posts
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    There are a few critical changes from LoL to Dota 2 that disturb that description there. There's no neutral buffs for example, which is a big thing - if anyone in Dota could have Golem Buff and spam their spells in the same fashion, I'd of ragequit life.

    And really, the phases depend on your team composition and strategy. Common strats include the 4 Protect 1 (4 early/midgame dominant heroes protecting 1 lategame carry, so they can singlehandedly power through everything later) Dual/Tri cores (3 carries, one on each lane, dividing up farm but more of a midgame powerhouse team), fast push strats involving those heroes who have minions or tower damaging abilities, and more.

    The benefit of having 104 completely different heroes is new combinations are always being thought of and used. LoL is stuck in the meta though unfortunately (1-1-2 with 1 Jungle) whereas Dota you'll sometimes see 1-1-3, 3-1-1, 1-2-2 or even 1-1-1 with two roaming supports constantly ganking.
  • graysonavich 17 Jul 2013 15:10:30 7,353 posts
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    ..yyyeeeeeaaaaah
  • Roddles 17 Jul 2013 15:12:48 1,897 posts
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    Vizzini of the Moba world.
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 17 Jul 2013 15:13:01 38,210 posts
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    I was OK up until the 2nd sentence.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • Benno 17 Jul 2013 15:15:19 9,900 posts
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    It could just be someone talking football formations or rugby strategies. The MOBA genre is the only game genre I can imagine as a sport.

    Even I have tuned in to some of the big LoL games and been thoroughly entertained.
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 17 Jul 2013 15:17:35 38,210 posts
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    It's like when someone is trying to catch you with wake-up SRK, and it's not punishable because of the 3 frame wind down. I just sit there spamming QCF + HP hahahaha.

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • shamblemonkee 17 Jul 2013 15:17:49 14,392 posts
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    i understood all of it, should i go end it all now? :D
  • Roddles 17 Jul 2013 15:21:28 1,897 posts
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    I wrote a class guide to help a fellow guild member play better in WoW. Suffice to say he was overwhelmed, continued to play shite, and gave up.


    Stats

    [list]Intellect: Our new base stat. 1 Int = 1 Spellpower (plus a minute amount of crit).

    Spirit: This now provides hit as well as mana regen. 1 Spirit = 1 Hit.

    Haste: Since the base casting times of Starfire and most importantly Wrath are alot higher than 3.3.5 this is now our strongest secondary stat.

    Mastery. Boosts damage during an eclipse state.

    Crit: Our worst state. Avoid/reforge away where possible.




    Reforging, Gems and Enchants

    Try to balance your gearset and reforges around the fact that our new Hit Cap is 1742. Always create Haste on gear that is lacking any. If possible reforge Hit rather than Spirit wherever possible, otherwise convert your crit. If you are over the hitcap and can't reforge it into haste because the gear currently already has haste, then reforge the hit/spirit into Crit.

    Use the 54 Intellect + 3% Critical Damage Metagem.

    [/strike]
    Glyphs

    Primary: Insect Swarm, Moonfire and Starsurge. Replace Starsurge with Wrath on strictly 1 mob boss encounters (ie Patchwerk!).

    Major: Starfall, Rebirth. Thorns, Innervate and Monsoon are all situational.

    Minor: Dash, Unburdened Rebirth. The third doesn't really matter. I chose Aquatic Form for herb farming.


    Combat rotation and tips

    [list]If there is no warrior or rogue in the raid, put 3xFaerie Fire on the boss to help melee with the 5% armor reduction debuff.

    Put thorns on the tank to help with threat straight away.*

    Open with Insect Swarm and Moonfire. Cast Wrath/Starfire till you hit 100 then switch until you hit the other 100.**

    Always try to cast Starsurge in an eclipse.

    Try to refresh your dots in an eclipse. If you think there will be more than 3 seconds of no dots outside of an eclipse then refresh it straight away. Don't refresh your dots early (this includes overwriting Moonfire with Sunfire***)

    Always cast Starsurge when it becomes instant.

    Cast starfall whenever it is off cooldown.

    Use your Treants whenever they are off cooldown

    If you have to move and all your dots are up, spam moonfire.

    For Aoe use starfall then cast Insect Swarm on every target. Then cast Moonfire on every target. Use 3xMushrooms + Explode if you think you can pull it off.


    * Every time the tank gets hit with Thorns the boss loses around 1.3k health per hit for 20 seconds. That can be alot with fast hitting bosses (and rogues in PvP - nothing funnier than being stunned and watching a rogue stab himself to death)

    ** Balance Power Tracker (http://wowinterface.com/downloads/info18000-BalancePowerTracker.html) is an absolute must to get the most out of your dps and eclipses. It also includes a great feature that works rather like healbot, wherein it will show how full your Eclipse bar is, including the spell that's currently being cast, so you know when to instantly queue up the opposite spell (ie Starfire then Wrath).

    Squawk and Awe (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/squawk-and-awe.aspx)
    Use Squawk and Awe or an equivalent addon to track the time remaining on your dots to make sure you refresh them at the correct time. Disable every option apart from Insect Swarm and Moonfire.
    So yeah, I'd like to get into a MOBA, but mental game language like above doesn't really help.

    Edited by Roddles at 15:24:54 17-07-2013
  • shamblemonkee 17 Jul 2013 15:23:02 14,392 posts
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    @rivuzu Do you reckon DOTA will get stuck in the same rut as LoLs meta if it gains the same level of popularity?

    AS far as i can see the structure of each game 'could be' as fluild as you've described for DOTA but people are just so ingrained in the curent set that they wont try something different out of fear of failure? sort of like the cookie cutter builds on WoW where over time the optimal as pioneered by actual pros filters down to the base community who then use that as gospel despite the pros having moved on by then and on gos the cycle.
  • graysonavich 17 Jul 2013 15:24:03 7,353 posts
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    Today I learnt what MOBA means. I'll leave it there for the day.
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