Rab Florence / Lost Humanity Page 3

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  • MrTomFTW Moderator 25 Oct 2012 15:13:03 39,761 posts
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    Sucks they've edited the article but it seems their hand was forced. Whether rightly or wrongly is another matter, but I'm of the understanding UK libel law is such a messy area you've got to play along, at least at first.

    Makes it seem really suspect on Laura's part though. All Rab did was quote her tweet and mention that to outside parties it could seem like she's being paid to promote the game.

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  • thedaveeyres 25 Oct 2012 15:16:14 11,586 posts
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    Surely if the booth babes non-issue deserved a direct response from Eurogamer, this one does too.

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  • thedaveeyres 25 Oct 2012 15:16:45 11,586 posts
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    MrTomFTW wrote:
    Sucks they've edited the article but it seems their hand was forced. Whether rightly or wrongly is another matter, but I'm of the understanding UK libel law is such a messy area you've got to play along, at least at first.

    Makes it seem really suspect on Laura's part though. All Rab did was quote her tweet and mention that to outside parties it could seem like she's being paid to promote the game.
    Errrm...

    https://twitter.com/Michael_French/status/261466165631647744

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  • onestepfromlost 25 Oct 2012 15:17:18 2,117 posts
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    I think the fact there was no threat of legal action makes EG even worse. I think its time for Intent to put on thier big boy pants. So if i post a quote and my opinion on it = cruel does it. Whole thing is a bloody farce. Dont want people commenting on your statements, delete your fucking twitter.
  • X201 25 Oct 2012 15:19:19 15,743 posts
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    jellyhead wrote:
    Apparently:

    No legal action taken by Intent Media. They asked EG to remove cruel content.

    I wonder if legal action was mentioned and did they ask nicely.


    ah, Intent Media.

    I wondered why MCV was being quiet on this.
  • glo 25 Oct 2012 15:20:21 3,438 posts
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    Feanor wrote:
    Much as I like Bramwell, his site's credibility has gone down the toilet.
    Have to agree with Feanor. There was nothing contentious in what Rab said and it was something that has needed to have been said for a long time. All the lost humanity articles have are tagged clearly as OPINION pieces. He said nothing that was not factually correct and is surely allowed to have his own opinion as to the journalistic integrity of Ms Wainwright.

    Lauren Wainwright should hang her head in shame and piss off back to doing actual PR for a living, rather than the fake PR bollocks she calls games journalism.

    btw lauren, you are welcome to sue me for having an opinion if you wish to try...

    Edited by glo at 15:21:32 25-10-2012
  • brokenkey 25 Oct 2012 15:25:34 7,155 posts
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    CrispyXUK wrote:
    EG have one ball confirmed? Who's this Wainwright bint anyway?
    She's appeared in Playboy. That's all you need to focus on.

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  • doctor_nick 25 Oct 2012 15:27:54 188 posts
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    I read it as that he'd quoted her teet which, apart from one typo, would change the colour of it all a bit.

    On a positive note, all this has made me look up the old consolevania site again. (Is it wrong to love a clown so much?)
  • RobTheBuilder 25 Oct 2012 15:27:58 6,521 posts
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    This whole thing seems incredibly disappointing, I understand why as a pretty independent site EG thought it best to respond quickly, but I think they picked the wrong option.

    Gaming media is very much a suspect industry right now, and I hoped that a non-major owned site like EG would keep saying the things that others won't.

    By avoiding short term damage against the article EG have done long term damage to their whole site with their key audience.

    Someone suggested a 24hr boycott of EG in response and in defence of Rab. Who's in?
  • Nehmis 25 Oct 2012 15:29:30 699 posts
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    I wonder if EG will at least have some sort of official response. (Outside of letting Rob go and editing his articles)Lost Humanity made a nice change and was good for the site, if nothing else.
  • X201 25 Oct 2012 15:29:48 15,743 posts
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    I'd like to hear the Eurogamer side of things first.
  • stryker1121 25 Oct 2012 15:31:36 765 posts
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    Was Wainwright given an option to write a response column, or did EG just pull the quote from Rab's piece after her legal threat? I'd hate to see this get swept under the rug w/o some explanation from EG overlords.
  • glo 25 Oct 2012 15:32:43 3,438 posts
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    Some response from EG is definitely required. To me, this is an issue of much greater seriousness than the whole 'EG expo booth babe' storm in a teacup.
  • Feanor 25 Oct 2012 15:33:01 14,185 posts
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    thedaveeyres wrote:
    Bombs being dropped...

    BOOOM

    lolzors
    Who is that guy? I like his style.
  • RobTheBuilder 25 Oct 2012 15:34:13 6,521 posts
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    glo wrote:
    Some response from EG is definitely required. To me, this is an issue of much greater seriousness than the whole 'EG expo booth babe' storm in a teacup.
    Absolutely.
  • opalw00t 25 Oct 2012 15:34:44 11,297 posts
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    If you google 'rev stu cowards' you may be able to find the original article if you're interested.

    not a force for good

  • Deleted user 25 October 2012 15:35:20
    There is an image doing the rounds on the internet this week. It is an image of Geoff Keighley, a Canadian games journalist, sitting dead-eyed beside a garish Halo 4 poster and a table of Mountain Dew and Doritos. It is a tragic, vulgar image. But I think that it is the most important image in games journalism today. I think we should all find it and study it. It is important.

    Geoff Keighley is often described as an industry leader. A games expert. He is one of the most prominent games journalists in the world. And there he sits, right there, beside a table of snacks. He will be sitting there forever, in our minds. That's what he is now. And in a sense, it is what he always was. As Executive Producer of the mindless, horrifying spectacle that is the Spike TV Video Game Awards he oversees the delivery of a televisual table full of junk, an entire festival of cultural Doritos.

    How many games journalists are sitting beside that table?

    Recently, the Games Media Awards rolled around again, and games journos turned up to a thing to party with their friends in games PR. Games PR people and games journos voted for their favourite friends, and friends gave awards to friends, and everyone had a good night out. Eurogamer won an award. Kieron Gillen was named an industry legend (and if anyone is a legend in games writing, he is) but he deserves a better platform for recognition than those GMAs. The GMAs shouldn't exist. By rights, that room should be full of people who feel uncomfortable in each other's company. PR people should be looking at games journos and thinking, "That person makes my job very challenging." Why are they all best buddies? What the hell is going on?

    Whenever you criticise the GMAs, as I've done in the past, you face the accusation of being "bitter". I've removed myself from those accusations somewhat by consistently making it clear that I'm not a games journalist. I'm a writer who regularly writes about games, that's all. And I've been happy for people who have been nominated for GMAs in the past, because I've known how much they wanted to be accepted by that circle. There is nothing wrong with wanting to belong, or wanting to be recognised by your peers. But it's important to ask yourself who your peers are, and exactly what it is you feel a need to belong to.
    2

    Just today, as I sat down to write this piece, I saw that there were games journalists winning PS3s on Twitter. There was a competition at those GMAs - tweet about our game and win a PS3. One of those stupid, crass things. And some games journos took part. All piling in, opening a sharing bag of Doritos, tweeting the hashtag as instructed. And today the winners were announced. Then a whole big argument happened, and other people who claim to be journalists claimed to see nothing wrong with what those so-called journalists had done. I think the winners are now giving away their PS3s, but it's too late. It's too late. Let me show you an example.

    One games journalist, Lauren Wainwright, tweeted: "Urm... Trion were giving away PS3s to journalists at the GMAs. Not sure why that's a bad thing?"

    Now, a few tweets earlier, she also tweeted this: "Lara header, two TR pix in the gallery and a very subtle TR background. #obsessed @tombraider pic.twitter.com/VOWDSavZ"

    And instantly I am suspicious. I am suspicious of this journalist's apparent love for Tomb Raider. I am asking myself whether she's in the pocket of the Tomb Raider PR team. I'm sure she isn't, but the doubt is there. After all, she sees nothing wrong with journalists promoting a game to win a PS3, right?

    Another journalist, one of the winners of the PS3 competition, tweeted this at disgusted RPS writer John Walker: "It was a hashtag, not an advert. Get off the pedestal." Now, this was Dave Cook, a guy I've met before. A good guy, as far as I could tell. But I don't believe for one second that Dave doesn't understand that in this time of social media madness a hashtag is just as powerful as an advert. Either he's on the defensive or he doesn't get what being a journalist is actually about.


    I want to make a confession. I stalk games journalists. It's something I've always done. I keep an eye on people. I have a mental list of games journos who are the very worst of the bunch. The ones who are at every PR launch event, the ones who tweet about all the freebies they get. I am fascinated by them. I won't name them here, because it's a horrible thing to do, but I'm sure some of you will know who they are. I'm fascinated by these creatures because they are living one of the most strange existences - they are playing at being a thing that they don't understand. And if they don't understand it, how can they love it? And if they don't love it, why are they playing at being it?
    3

    This club, this weird club of pals and buddies that make up a fair proportion of games media, needs to be broken up somehow. They have a powerful bond, though - held together by the pressures of playing to the same audience. Games publishers and games press sources are all trying to keep you happy, and it's much easier to do that if they work together. Publishers are well aware that some of you go crazy if a new AAA title gets a crappy review score on a website, and they use that knowledge to keep the boat from rocking. Everyone has a nice easy ride if the review scores stay decent and the content of the games are never challenged. Websites get their exclusives. Ad revenue keeps rolling in. The information is controlled. Everyone stays friendly. It's a steady flow of Mountain Dew pouring from the hills of the money men, down through the fingers of the weary journos, down into your mouths. At some point you will have to stop drinking that stuff and demand something better.

    Standards are important. They are hard to live up to, sure, but that's the point of them. The trouble with games journalism is that there are no standards. We expect to see Geoff Keighley sitting beside a table of s***. We expect to see the flurry of excitement when the GMAs get announced, instead of a chuckle and a roll of the eyes. We expect to see our games journos failing to get what journalistic integrity means. The brilliant writers, like John Walker for example, don't get the credit they deserve simply because they don't play the game. Indeed, John Walker gets told to get off his pedestal because he has high standards and is pointing out a worrying problem.

    Geoff Keighley, meanwhile, is sitting beside a table of snacks. A table of delicious Doritos and refreshing Mountain Dew. He is, as you'll see on Wikipedia, "only one of two journalists, the other being 60 Minutes correspondent Mike Wallace, profiled in the Harvard Business School press book 'Geeks and Geezers' by noted leadership expert Warren Bennis." Geoff Keighley is important. He is a leader in his field. He once said, "There's such a lack of investigative journalism. I wish I had more time to do more, sort of, investigation." And yet there he sits, glassy-eyed, beside a table heaving with sickly Doritos and Mountain Dew.

    It's an important image. Study it.
    Here's the unedited article
  • onestepfromlost 25 Oct 2012 15:37:58 2,117 posts
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    careful youll get banned for being "cruel"
  • Deleted user 25 October 2012 15:41:29
    Surprised it's not been 'edited' yet.
  • thedaveeyres 25 Oct 2012 15:43:58 11,586 posts
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    Edited by thedaveeyres at 15:44:34 25-10-2012

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  • MrTomFTW Moderator 25 Oct 2012 15:46:06 39,761 posts
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    I doubt any of the user mods will edit/ban over this. We're not on the payroll after all, and we've not been told to take any action. In fact we've heard as much you guys have.

    Personally I see nothing wrong with the original article.

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  • ecu 25 Oct 2012 15:50:25 77,313 posts
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    glo wrote:
    Some response from EG is definitely required. To me, this is an issue of much greater seriousness than the whole 'EG expo booth babe' storm in a teacup.
    Their response will just be that they agree with the points raised but they didn't want to name names or imply that said journalists were on a games publishers payroll.
  • LockeTribal 25 Oct 2012 15:51:22 4,539 posts
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    Agreed that there has to be a response from EG about all this. They should bring back the editor's blog bit of the site that seems to have disappeared after the revamp.

    Also:
    Rusty_M wrote:
    Why does anything slightly scandalous have to be called "gate"? It's bloody annoying. Watergate was not a scandal about water!
    Surely you mean Watergate-gate.

    Edited by LockeTribal at 15:51:46 25-10-2012
  • onestepfromlost 25 Oct 2012 15:52:00 2,117 posts
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    MrTomFTW wrote:
    I doubt any of the user mods will edit/ban over this. We're not on the payroll after all, and we've not been told to take any action. In fact we've heard as much you guys have.

    Personally I see nothing wrong with the original article.
    yeah i know just my (poor) attempt at being amusing :p
  • AaronTurner 25 Oct 2012 15:52:54 7,886 posts
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    Presumably as this has all gone tits up the next thing to happen will be that she tweets that she never asked for the article to be altered or removed and Intent Media or whatever mention that they may have been slightly over zealous in protectig their client, but it was all friendly and no law action was taken.

    presumably.
  • AaronTurner 25 Oct 2012 15:53:13 7,886 posts
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    Then Rupert Murdoch flies in!
  • Ziz0u 25 Oct 2012 15:53:19 8,648 posts
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    doctor_nick wrote:
    I read it as that he'd quoted her teet which, apart from one typo, would change the colour of it all a bit.

    On a positive note, all this has made me look up the old consolevania site again. (Is it wrong to love a clown so much?)
    I like your typo.
  • glo 25 Oct 2012 15:55:18 3,438 posts
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    ecureuil wrote:
    Their response will just be that they agree with the points raised but they didn't want to name names or imply that said journalists were on a games publishers payroll.
    But Ms Wainwright is a freelance employee of Square/Enix. Therefore the implication that she was on a games publisher's payroll would have been factually correct.
  • onestepfromlost 25 Oct 2012 15:55:21 2,117 posts
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    ZizouFC wrote:
    doctor_nick wrote:
    I read it as that he'd quoted her teet which, apart from one typo, would change the colour of it all a bit.

    On a positive note, all this has made me look up the old consolevania site again. (Is it wrong to love a clown so much?)
    I like your typo.
    Maybe thats how all this came about. someone told her he was talking about her teets and she got all offended saying its cruel. Hilarity ensues
  • repairmanjack 25 Oct 2012 15:55:32 6,079 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    Then Rupert Murdoch flies in!
    In a coffin filled with his native soil.
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