Rab Florence / Lost Humanity Page 20

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  • Benno 31 Oct 2012 11:09:43 9,391 posts
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    I dont care for games journalism, I prefer to get my reviews from you guys
  • spamdangled 31 Oct 2012 11:47:02 27,197 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    My thoughts exactly. In many ways, the way this industry is presented to the public is done so by the journalists. It is therefore hypocritical of them to wax lyrical about how the medium needs to be taken seriously if they are themselves unwilling to hold themselves up to the standards of their mainstream peers and deflect criticism with defensive cries of "but it's just games journalism".
    I don't think inventing what they're saying is helpful.
    I'm not. More than one of the journalists who flocked to twitter in the last week used the "it's just games journalism" excuse. A lot of the people in article comments also used the same excuse to dismiss the importance of the issue.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • spamdangled 31 Oct 2012 11:47:54 27,197 posts
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    Anyway, VG247 have released a statement saying that they have overhauled their ethical policy in light of what they're calling "Doritosgate" (sigh).

    http://www.vg247.com/2012/10/31/doritosgate-after-the-storm-lets-clean-ourselves-up/

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • Commander Keen 31 Oct 2012 11:48:29 718 posts
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    Another interesting article on this by a Guardian journo: http://maryhamilton.co.uk/2012/10/games-journalism-games-pr/

    Worth a quick read!
  • Deleted user 31 October 2012 11:50:09
    darkmorgado wrote:
    Aargh. wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    My thoughts exactly. In many ways, the way this industry is presented to the public is done so by the journalists. It is therefore hypocritical of them to wax lyrical about how the medium needs to be taken seriously if they are themselves unwilling to hold themselves up to the standards of their mainstream peers and deflect criticism with defensive cries of "but it's just games journalism".
    I don't think inventing what they're saying is helpful.
    I'm not. More than one of the journalists who flocked to twitter in the last week used the "it's just games journalism" excuse. A lot of the people in article comments also used the same excuse to dismiss the importance of the issue.
    Links? And no one gives a fuck about article comments.
  • spamdangled 31 Oct 2012 12:03:34 27,197 posts
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    I'm not going to start trawling through god knows how many twitter accounts in order to provide examples, but it is something that has been said more than once.

    Anyway, Polygon have made a whoopsie:

    http://www.polygon.com/2012/10/30/3575978/halo-4-avatar-costume-offered-free-from-u-k-pizza-huts

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • shamblemonkee 31 Oct 2012 12:41:25 14,039 posts
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    in what way? it's clear what the source is.
  • spamdangled 31 Oct 2012 12:44:51 27,197 posts
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    shamblemonkee wrote:
    in what way? it's clear what the source is.
    In their ethical policy they clearly state that they will not run advertorials.

    The story has since been removed from the front page and previously deleted comments have been reinstated. Still, it's a wee bit embarassing for a site that has set itself up as "different".

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • matrim83 31 Oct 2012 13:02:11 5,585 posts
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    The story is iffy enough as it is but cant believe they were stupid enough to start deleting comments that called out the story as an advertisement.

    Valar morghulis.

  • Deleted user 31 October 2012 13:34:00
    darkmorgado wrote:
    Anyway, VG247 have released a statement saying that they have overhauled their ethical policy in light of what they're calling "Doritosgate" (sigh).

    http://www.vg247.com/2012/10/31/doritosgate-after-the-storm-lets-clean-ourselves-up/
    Doesn't say they're going to get rid of regurgitated press releases that make up 90% of the site content though.
  • Deleted user 31 October 2012 13:37:23
    darkmorgado wrote:
    I'm not going to start trawling through god knows how many twitter accounts in order to provide examples, but it is something that has been said more than once.

    Anyway, Polygon have made a whoopsie:

    http://www.polygon.com/2012/10/30/3575978/halo-4-avatar-costume-offered-free-from-u-k-pizza-huts
    What makes you think they've been paid to put up that? It's a story that somewhere else has a competition on.
  • cowell 31 Oct 2012 13:54:14 667 posts
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    I don't think the suggestion is that they've been paid, more that many are sick of the copy pasting of press releases masquerading as news, especially ones with a junk food brand tacked on.

    Problem is that anything Halo 4 related can drive traffic. If you could up traffic to your website before a rival site does, what you going to do but copy paste as quickly as possible

    Edited by cowell at 13:55:02 31-10-2012
  • jellyhead 31 Oct 2012 13:54:55 24,350 posts
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    @Aargh. As long as they mark them as being adverts or PR then all is good. It's transparency that's the first hurdle to tackle. How they editorialise the PR is up to them. Personally i think they should go the Gamasutra way and have a PR section where the PR/Advertorials are placed separate to the real articles and news.

    Don't call an advert or PR 'News', it isn't.

    Though the fact that some sites have become self-aware and are reappraising how they present information to their readers is a bloody good start.
    Polygon responding with snarky replies and deleting comments was wrong. Especially when it was pointed out that their game changing site apparently had changed nothing, that "Press Reset" could also mean "Press Release" and they needed to actually live up to their own hype. They reevaluated their stance and changed. Which is exactly what we all want.

    Not to get snarky at us because we want our enthusiast press to actually have high standards and be worth reading.

    This signature intentionally left blank.

  • Commander Keen 31 Oct 2012 14:42:16 718 posts
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    Personally i think they should go the Gamasutra way and have a PR section where the PR/Advertorials are placed separate to the real articles and news.
    I agree with this. However, as I touched on before, the problem is that the PRs themselves understand that people don't want to be sold to. While, say, on the tube you've got a captive audience who you can just advertise to, almost no-one in their right mind is going to willingly click on an advert in their spare time. Thus all the dark arts deployed to infiltrate the spaces above the line.

    Without the authority that the apparent authenticity which a journalist lends, the exercise has little to no value.
  • morriss 31 Oct 2012 14:53:48 70,749 posts
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    I still don't know how anyone can't expect full impartiality when people's wages and thereby livelihoods are funded by the companies they are reporting on.

    It doesn't make sense. :)
  • Deleted user 31 October 2012 14:59:18
    darkmorgado wrote:
    I'm not going to start trawling through god knows how many twitter accounts in order to provide examples, but it is something that has been said more than once.
    Oh I missed this before.

    You're still doing your thing of making something up to make a point and then can't be bothered to provide a single link to anyone that has said it once? You'd think a games journalist claiming he doesn't do journalism would have been picked up on by more people (than just those in your head).
  • spamdangled 31 Oct 2012 15:01:55 27,197 posts
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    As others have said, its as much about transparency as it is bias. And whether or not they can completely eliminate the risk of of corruption doesn't mean it isn't a goal worth striving for.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • spamdangled 31 Oct 2012 15:05:03 27,197 posts
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    Aargh. wrote:
    You'd think a games journalist claiming he doesn't do journalism
    That isn't what they were saying. My understanding was that they were saying games journalism isn't capital-J journalism and therefore shouldn't be held to the same standards.

    And just because I'm not going to start trawling through twitter looking for examples to appease you - which we both know is pointless anyway - doesn't mean I'm making the whole thing up. But you can easily read many of the twitter comments simply by following the link on the original story. In fact, in the first dozen or so tweets there's someone from machina.com saying Rab's argument is flawed because games media isnt real journalism.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 15:10:22 31-10-2012

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • kinky_mong 31 Oct 2012 15:22:18 9,607 posts
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    Wish it was Papa John's doing that competition, Pizza Hut tastes like greasy cardboard.

    I'll never get my Orc looking the same again.

  • AcidSnake 31 Oct 2012 15:40:34 7,138 posts
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    @Commander Keen:
    Is that...a space in your name?! Blasphemer!

    AcidSnake - He can't see your sig, avatar, images or vids and talks about himself in the third person because he's proper old-skool...UID 24017

  • Commander Keen 31 Oct 2012 16:22:08 718 posts
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    @AcidSnake Indeed!

    I think I must've registered it before the space Gestapo took control of everyone's profile!

    The downside appears to be that I can't edit my profile or any of my ancient biographical information.

    Some you win...
  • President_Weasel 31 Oct 2012 16:30:45 8,604 posts
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    kinky_mong wrote:
    Wish it was Papa John's doing that competition, Pizza Hut tastes like greasy cardboard.
    Papa John's are super-greasy and give me brutal heartburn every time*

    *well, the few times it took me to learn my lesson and stop ordering Papa John's... FOREVER


    (this post not sponsored by competing pizza franchises, although for full transparency I have often benefited from tokens and 2-for-1 deals)
  • kdsh7 31 Oct 2012 17:03:34 1,163 posts
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    hear that? It sounds like Kotaku backpedalling. (or we could give them benefit of the doubt)

    Kotaku
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 31 Oct 2012 17:18:58 36,276 posts
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    I fucking love Papa Johns and any time they want to offer ME free stuff to pimp their pizzas, I'm in.

    I totally called it.
    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • kinky_mong 31 Oct 2012 17:32:34 9,607 posts
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    MrTomFTW wrote:
    I fucking love Papa Johns and any time they want to offer ME free stuff to pimp their pizzas, I'm in.
    This post I can get behind, unlike that PizzaHut_Weasal shill.

    I'll never get my Orc looking the same again.

  • Rusty_M 31 Oct 2012 18:10:22 4,349 posts
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    Edited: fuck that! stupid post.

    Edited by Rusty_M at 18:10:49 31-10-2012

    The world is going mad. Me? I'm doing fine.

  • Tonka 1 Nov 2012 16:36:59 19,840 posts
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    kdsh7 wrote:
    hear that? It sounds like Kotaku backpedalling. (or we could give them benefit of the doubt)

    Kotaku
    As much as I dislike Kotakulol they do have a history of sticking it to the man. Once.

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

  • mal 2 Nov 2012 01:47:30 21,942 posts
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    There's not much new there. Other than two Future published rags promoted the same Squeenix-published game, which was also reviewed positively by Wainwright in MCV (surprise). If this kerfuffle has taught me one thing - that any game appearing on the front of one of these rags almost certainly paid to get there, especially if it claims to be an exclusive.

    I don't see what that's got to do with EG. Tom's already said that he responded to legal threats from Wainwright, and while many of us assume she must have some monetary backing from PR to do that, there's no way for anyone at EG to know that or not.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

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