Rab Florence / Lost Humanity Page 19

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  • jellyhead 30 Oct 2012 16:02:32 24,350 posts
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    Guardian Article - Video game journalism a response to the controversy - Blimey, he 'got' it.

    Edited by jellyhead at 16:07:18 30-10-2012

    This signature intentionally left blank.

  • tincanrocket 30 Oct 2012 16:24:14 2,897 posts
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    Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose
  • Commander-Keen 30 Oct 2012 16:57:21 806 posts
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    Just a thought: The British Music Press went through something similar in the 90s. I remember a particularly notable example being the NME agreeing to give an Oasis album (Be Here Now I think it was, off the top of my head) a 10/10 review regardless, for exclusive access to review the album first.

    The music industry has more or less been in bed with the music press for decades, but the downside appears to have been a dwindling circulation, killing off several editions, and increased piracy. Ironically, by trying to hawk crap in the short-term, the industry encouraged people to by-pass and disengage from official channels and essentially undermined itself in the longer term. And then the internet took off and they were really fucked.

    Just an observation.
  • tincanrocket 30 Oct 2012 17:04:52 2,897 posts
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    The Commander speaks the truth. The music industry (press and radio) basically works as a shill for music industry PR, at least in terms of the mainstream. This is unfortunately the nature of the beast if you rely on advertising and exclusives for your income, and advertising is effectively the bread and butter of website publishing, as you are not selling a physical product. Gated paid subscriptions might work, but I don't know how that has worked out for the likes of the Times and (not being a subscriber, I can't check), I imagine their paid-for site still runs ads.

    Do many people rely on mainstream radio to dictate which artists' records they should buy (well, anyone over the age of 12)? Surely most people realise that the playlists are dictated by the music publishers and PR executives? Now that the games industry is big business and games cost millions to produce, why would you suppose that mainstream games sites are any different? Ignore the hype around the big games, ignore the 'playlist' reviews of the big hitters (whose ads keep the sites running), and appreciate the other stuff that this pays for - the reviews of indie games, the opinion pieces (hmmm, perhaps not a good example in this particular case), the forum, and so on.
  • Feanor 30 Oct 2012 17:08:17 14,053 posts
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    The latest games journalism controversy - rewriting press releases as news when they are really just advertising, even when your site has a an Ethics policy saying advertorial will be clearly marked.

    http://www.polygon.com/2012/10/30/3575978/halo-4-avatar-costume-offered-free-from-u-k-pizza-huts

    From Polygon's Ethics statement:

    "Our policies do not permit placements of advertorial on Polygon. We will endeavor to clearly mark any advertisement or "infomercial" (videos, Flash animations, etc.) shown on Polygon as an advertisement."
    http://www.polygon.com/pages/ethics-statement

    Edited by Feanor at 17:10:10 30-10-2012
  • Deleted user 30 October 2012 17:08:55
    Correct apart from it having any impact on piracy.
  • Deleted user 30 October 2012 17:11:19
    Feanor wrote:
    The latest games journalism controversy - rewriting press releases as news when they are really just advertising, even when your site has a an Ethics policy saying advertorial will be clearly marked.

    http://www.polygon.com/2012/10/30/3575978/halo-4-avatar-costume-offered-free-from-u-k-pizza-huts

    From Polygon's Ethics statement:

    "Our policies do not permit placements of advertorial on Polygon. We will endeavor to clearly mark any advertisement or "infomercial" (videos, Flash animations, etc.) shown on Polygon as an advertisement."
    http://www.polygon.com/pages/ethics-statement
    The actual article lists the source clearly as pizza hut.
  • infoxicated 30 Oct 2012 18:00:38 1,070 posts
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    So she was pretend all along?

    http://p4r.buzzleberry.com/?p=319

    I'm a bit lost now...
  • mrharvest 30 Oct 2012 18:04:56 5,184 posts
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    I kind of agree on what TotalBiscuit said on the topic: traditional games journalism will lose meaning as there are more and more established crowd-funded bloggers covering games.

    I liked Eurogamer reviews when they were unapologetic and straight to the point. These days I'm not sure what to take and what to discard when I read them. But with independent (maybe, maybe not!) reviewers on Youtube I feel like at least what I get is honestly their opinion.

    That, and at the moment I won't buy any new game but wait at least 6 months after launch. The good stuff bubbles to the top -and- I get it cheaper.
  • Inertia 30 Oct 2012 18:05:26 676 posts
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    Eh looking at the other stories I reckon it's a piss-take. Butyou can never be too sure these days.
  • spamdangled 30 Oct 2012 18:10:57 27,269 posts
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    @infoxicated

    It's a pisstake. It cites a tweet by Rab that he never made.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 18:11:18 30-10-2012

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • King_Edward 30 Oct 2012 18:11:34 11,454 posts
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    infoxicated wrote:
    So she was pretend all along?

    http://p4r.buzzleberry.com/?p=319

    I'm a bit lost now...
    Heh.
  • FanBoysSuck 30 Oct 2012 18:14:24 1,441 posts
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    jellyhead wrote:
    Guardian Article - Video game journalism — a response to the controversy - Blimey, he 'got' it.

    Edited by jellyhead at 16:07:18 30-10-2012
    Great to see something good come out of this. I hope it spurs others to do similar disclosures.

    For the emperor!

  • Commander-Keen 30 Oct 2012 18:24:34 806 posts
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    FanBoysSuck wrote:
    jellyhead wrote:
    Guardian Article - Video game journalism — a response to the controversy - Blimey, he 'got' it.

    Edited by jellyhead at 16:07:18 30-10-2012
    Great to see something good come out of this. I hope it spurs others to do similar disclosures.
    Indeed, though the truth is, it's a crooked and loaded game from the start. In a way, the shocking detail to this sorry saga is that there has been such a vocal response.

    I remember writing about the issue of PR and Journalism back 2008 for another website (which has sadly shuffled off to that great dark-space in the sky)and the truth is that this is far from a one-off or a unique experience. What's been outlined in Rab's article is the MO. In fact, it only really touches on part of the MO. The truth is a lot more depressing.

    Did you know that the vast majority of what you read, see and hear these days is an advert? Not just a plug, but a fully-blown, bona-fide advert? Have a think about that for a second and mull it over.

    You see the rules of the game have changed. Companies understand that you dont particularly want to hear about their shitty product and that nine times out of ten youll tune out of any content which overtly tries to change your mind. Conventional advertising still exists of course, but its only one layer of the onion. More media savvy people will be aware of another couple of layers here and there, but it goes far, far deeper than that.

    Approximately seven or eight out of ten articles in local papers are re-written press releases. A cursory look at the repetitive nature of the news stories on something like Newsnow.net indicates that its no different for the internet as well. See, the problem with free information is this: People still need to eat and still want to drive big shiny cars and forcing them to make their paper free kinda puts a dent in that ambition. Cost-effectivity really comes to the fore when you are putting together most businesses, but think, for a second, about how many pages and words your local daily or weekly paper has and how much leg-work would have to go into making every single story in there a genuine, original piece. Its a hell of a lot easier to keep someone in the office re-writing stuff which already comes with an angle, a few pictures and a story than it is to actually send people out to do it from scratch.

    The way we consume media has changed massively in the last ten years. What most people dont realise is that the way the media works has also changed massively in the last ten years. Its had to adapt or die.

    I'll stop there before I get accused of going into full tinfoil hat mode....
  • Deleted user 30 October 2012 18:25:04
    FanBoysSuck wrote:
    jellyhead wrote:
    Guardian Article - Video game journalism — a response to the controversy - Blimey, he 'got' it.

    Edited by jellyhead at 16:07:18 30-10-2012
    Great to see something good come out of this. I hope it spurs others to do similar disclosures.
    "I will no longer commission reviews based on publisher-organised events.
    Often major publishers, rightfully fearful of their game code slipping into the wrong hands and being pirated before release, will hold special review events. This is really specific to the games industry, at least to the best of my knowledge. Journalists are invited to attend and can play forthcoming titles, usually for a couple of days, without distraction. They're convenient, well-managed and well-intentioned, but they also limit the reviewer's time with the game and can be perceived by some as a questionable form of collaboration between publisher and critic. Non-attendance at such events will mean that we sometimes provide our reviews later than other sources. I think it's worth it."

    Hoofuckingray I say. I hate that shit and it needs to stop. It absolutely needs to stop.
  • FanBoysSuck 30 Oct 2012 18:59:45 1,441 posts
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    Commander Keen wrote:
    FanBoysSuck wrote:
    jellyhead wrote:
    Guardian Article - Video game journalism — a response to the controversy - Blimey, he 'got' it.

    Edited by jellyhead at 16:07:18 30-10-2012
    Great to see something good come out of this. I hope it spurs others to do similar disclosures.
    Indeed, though the truth is, it's a crooked and loaded game from the start. In a way, the shocking detail to this sorry saga is that there has been such a vocal response.

    I remember writing about the issue of PR and Journalism back 2008 for another website (which has sadly shuffled off to that great dark-space in the sky)and the truth is that this is far from a one-off or a unique experience. What's been outlined in Rab's article is the MO. In fact, it only really touches on part of the MO. The truth is a lot more depressing.

    Did you know that the vast majority of what you read, see and hear these days is an advert? Not just a plug, but a fully-blown, bona-fide advert? Have a think about that for a second and mull it over.

    You see the rules of the game have changed. Companies understand that you don’t particularly want to hear about their shitty product and that nine times out of ten you’ll tune out of any content which overtly tries to change your mind. Conventional advertising still exists of course, but it’s only one layer of the onion. More media savvy people will be aware of another couple of layers here and there, but it goes far, far deeper than that.

    Approximately seven or eight out of ten articles in local papers are re-written press releases. A cursory look at the repetitive nature of the news stories on something like Newsnow.net indicates that it’s no different for the internet as well. See, the problem with free information is this: People still need to eat and still want to drive big shiny cars and forcing them to make their paper free kinda puts a dent in that ambition. Cost-effectivity really comes to the fore when you are putting together most businesses, but think, for a second, about how many pages and words your local daily or weekly paper has and how much leg-work would have to go into making every single story in there a genuine, original piece. It’s a hell of a lot easier to keep someone in the office re-writing stuff which already comes with an angle, a few pictures and a story than it is to actually send people out to do it from scratch.

    The way we consume media has changed massively in the last ten years. What most people don’t realise is that the way the media works has also changed massively in the last ten years. It’s had to adapt or die.

    I'll stop there before I get accused of going into full tinfoil hat mode....
    It's the reason I avoid TV and radio to be honest, it's all just one big drive for you to consume. One of the reasons I use my spare time to game is to get away from all of it. I'm starting to see how modern advertising works first hand actually, I've been working with a guy in marketing to promote my department and some of the techniques are a bit scary.

    For the emperor!

  • VANGUARD-CAT 30 Oct 2012 19:11:42 27 posts
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    @Feanor I kind of felt like the Pirate's Booty (Borderlands 2) review was like that. It read like an Advertisement instead of a review.
  • Bremenacht 30 Oct 2012 23:13:22 17,600 posts
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    FanBoysSuck wrote:
    Commander Keen wrote:
    FanBoysSuck wrote:
    jellyhead wrote:
    Guardian Article - Video game journalism — a response to the controversy - Blimey, he 'got' it.

    Edited by jellyhead at 16:07:18 30-10-2012
    Great to see something good come out of this. I hope it spurs others to do similar disclosures.
    Indeed, though the truth is, it's a crooked and loaded game from the start. In a way, the shocking detail to this sorry saga is that there has been such a vocal response.

    I remember writing about the issue of PR and Journalism back 2008 for another website (which has sadly shuffled off to that great dark-space in the sky)and the truth is that this is far from a one-off or a unique experience. What's been outlined in Rab's article is the MO. In fact, it only really touches on part of the MO. The truth is a lot more depressing.

    Did you know that the vast majority of what you read, see and hear these days is an advert? Not just a plug, but a fully-blown, bona-fide advert? Have a think about that for a second and mull it over.

    You see the rules of the game have changed. Companies understand that you don’t particularly want to hear about their shitty product and that nine times out of ten you’ll tune out of any content which overtly tries to change your mind. Conventional advertising still exists of course, but it’s only one layer of the onion. More media savvy people will be aware of another couple of layers here and there, but it goes far, far deeper than that.

    Approximately seven or eight out of ten articles in local papers are re-written press releases. A cursory look at the repetitive nature of the news stories on something like Newsnow.net indicates that it’s no different for the internet as well. See, the problem with free information is this: People still need to eat and still want to drive big shiny cars and forcing them to make their paper free kinda puts a dent in that ambition. Cost-effectivity really comes to the fore when you are putting together most businesses, but think, for a second, about how many pages and words your local daily or weekly paper has and how much leg-work would have to go into making every single story in there a genuine, original piece. It’s a hell of a lot easier to keep someone in the office re-writing stuff which already comes with an angle, a few pictures and a story than it is to actually send people out to do it from scratch.

    The way we consume media has changed massively in the last ten years. What most people don’t realise is that the way the media works has also changed massively in the last ten years. It’s had to adapt or die.

    I'll stop there before I get accused of going into full tinfoil hat mode....
    It's the reason I avoid TV and radio to be honest, it's all just one big drive for you to consume. One of the reasons I use my spare time to game is to get away from all of it. I'm starting to see how modern advertising works first hand actually, I've been working with a guy in marketing to promote my department and some of the techniques are a bit scary.
    Best avoid the Internet too! So much happens *only* because free kit is involved. Best GPU? Best Laptop? Best HiFi component? Best Camera? etc etc etc.
  • superdelphinus 30 Oct 2012 23:30:48 8,011 posts
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    my brief and insignificant opinion on this (I only read about it today) is that it all seems a little bit "ooh look at us having a crisis, we must be truly a proper significant industry/art form (etc) now" by the whole games journalism business.

    harsh?
  • spamdangled 30 Oct 2012 23:44:14 27,269 posts
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    A bit, yes.

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • repairmanjack 30 Oct 2012 23:52:30 5,987 posts
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    FanBoysSuck wrote:
    jellyhead wrote:
    Guardian Article - Video game journalism — a response to the controversy - Blimey, he 'got' it.

    Edited by jellyhead at 16:07:18 30-10-2012
    Great to see something good come out of this. I hope it spurs others to do similar disclosures.
    Is he the guy that does the game reviews in the Saturday supplement in The Guardian? Because I would suggest that ninety-percent of the games they review they've never played. In most cases, they're copying the text from the back of the box. Worst examples of reviews as adverts I've ever seen... but I always assumed their reviewer was too fucking lazy to bother.
  • Mola_Ram 31 Oct 2012 01:30:13 6,946 posts
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    superdelphinus wrote:
    my brief and insignificant opinion on this (I only read about it today) is that it all seems a little bit "ooh look at us having a crisis, we must be truly a proper significant industry/art form (etc) now" by the whole games journalism business.

    harsh?
    If they did intend that, then surely it has been undone somewhat by the "who cares " brigade. If you're one of those people who wants games to be taken seriously, then games journalism also needs to be taken seriously. And that means engaging with the issues that other, grown-up journalists need to deal with.

    (Just a general response; not directed at you or anyone here!)
  • spamdangled 31 Oct 2012 01:48:25 27,269 posts
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    My thoughts exactly. In many ways, the way this industry is presented to the public is done so by the journalists. It is therefore hypocritical of them to wax lyrical about how the medium needs to be taken seriously if they are themselves unwilling to hold themselves up to the standards of their mainstream peers and deflect criticism with defensive cries of "but it's just games journalism".

    Edited by darkmorgado at 01:49:48 31-10-2012

    3DS: 4055-2781-2855 Xbox: spamdangled PSN: dark_morgan Wii U: Spamdangle Steam: spamdangled

  • Tonka 31 Oct 2012 05:14:07 20,010 posts
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    Are they doing that? Sying it's okay since it's only games journalism.

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

  • Mola_Ram 31 Oct 2012 06:37:07 6,946 posts
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    Tonka wrote:
    Are they doing that? Sying it's okay since it's only games journalism.
    No, they seem to be saying it's ok, just because... it's ok. What i'm saying is that, if they want games journalism to be taken seriously at all, they need to be having this conversation. This is what all r journalists should be thinking about.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 06:39:01 31-10-2012
  • Tonka 31 Oct 2012 06:46:41 20,010 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    [No, they seem to be saying it's ok, just because... it's ok.
    Oh, that old argument. Tough one to counter without looking like a five year old.

    Mola_Ram wrote:
    What i'm saying is that, if they want games journalism to be taken seriously at all, they need to be having this conversation. This is what all r journalists should be thinking about.
    Well, I don't think there's a sustainable market for "serious" games journalism. Sure, plenty of people would like to read good reviews and in depth stories about Evo moment #37 but enough to pay for a mortage and put food on the table?

    I honestly don't think so.

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

  • FanBoysSuck 31 Oct 2012 09:41:47 1,441 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    FanBoysSuck wrote:
    Commander Keen wrote:
    FanBoysSuck wrote:
    jellyhead wrote:
    Guardian Article - Video game journalism — a response to the controversy - Blimey, he 'got' it.

    Edited by jellyhead at 16:07:18 30-10-2012
    Great to see something good come out of this. I hope it spurs others to do similar disclosures.
    Indeed, though the truth is, it's a crooked and loaded game from the start. In a way, the shocking detail to this sorry saga is that there has been such a vocal response.

    I remember writing about the issue of PR and Journalism back 2008 for another website (which has sadly shuffled off to that great dark-space in the sky)and the truth is that this is far from a one-off or a unique experience. What's been outlined in Rab's article is the MO. In fact, it only really touches on part of the MO. The truth is a lot more depressing.

    Did you know that the vast majority of what you read, see and hear these days is an advert? Not just a plug, but a fully-blown, bona-fide advert? Have a think about that for a second and mull it over.

    You see the rules of the game have changed. Companies understand that you don’t particularly want to hear about their shitty product and that nine times out of ten you’ll tune out of any content which overtly tries to change your mind. Conventional advertising still exists of course, but it’s only one layer of the onion. More media savvy people will be aware of another couple of layers here and there, but it goes far, far deeper than that.

    Approximately seven or eight out of ten articles in local papers are re-written press releases. A cursory look at the repetitive nature of the news stories on something like Newsnow.net indicates that it’s no different for the internet as well. See, the problem with free information is this: People still need to eat and still want to drive big shiny cars and forcing them to make their paper free kinda puts a dent in that ambition. Cost-effectivity really comes to the fore when you are putting together most businesses, but think, for a second, about how many pages and words your local daily or weekly paper has and how much leg-work would have to go into making every single story in there a genuine, original piece. It’s a hell of a lot easier to keep someone in the office re-writing stuff which already comes with an angle, a few pictures and a story than it is to actually send people out to do it from scratch.

    The way we consume media has changed massively in the last ten years. What most people don’t realise is that the way the media works has also changed massively in the last ten years. It’s had to adapt or die.

    I'll stop there before I get accused of going into full tinfoil hat mode....
    It's the reason I avoid TV and radio to be honest, it's all just one big drive for you to consume. One of the reasons I use my spare time to game is to get away from all of it. I'm starting to see how modern advertising works first hand actually, I've been working with a guy in marketing to promote my department and some of the techniques are a bit scary.
    Best avoid the Internet too! So much happens *only* because free kit is involved. Best GPU? Best Laptop? Best HiFi component? Best Camera? etc etc etc.
    Ha well at least with the internet I get to choose what gets rammed down my metaphorical throat! ;)

    Gpu's are a bad example, numbers don't lie :p

    I also like to think that I stick to review site that actually do critiques rather than press releases with a number at the bottom. I'm probably living in fairy land on that point though.

    For the emperor!

  • FanBoysSuck 31 Oct 2012 09:47:49 1,441 posts
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    @Tonka Maybe not but I'd love to see someone try. I'd buy/subscribe, especially if it was ad free.

    Edge are the closest thing to it really although it's gone down the pan a bit with about a third of the mag taken up with what are essentially infomercials.

    For the emperor!

  • Deleted user 31 October 2012 09:51:52
    darkmorgado wrote:
    My thoughts exactly. In many ways, the way this industry is presented to the public is done so by the journalists. It is therefore hypocritical of them to wax lyrical about how the medium needs to be taken seriously if they are themselves unwilling to hold themselves up to the standards of their mainstream peers and deflect criticism with defensive cries of "but it's just games journalism".
    I don't think inventing what they're saying is helpful.
  • repairmanjack 31 Oct 2012 11:02:00 5,987 posts
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    I don't need serious games journalism. (Whatever the fuck that is.) I just need honest reviews.
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