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  • dominalien 12 Jun 2013 12:39:34 6,848 posts
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    I got excited about 7.1 at one point and even got a setup, only to be thwarted by space considerations. Somehow, I never managed to arrange my gaming/movie room so that the couch would be in the middle, so I could put speakers to the sides of it and two more behind.

    Maybe I'll go back to it some day, but 5.1 has been serving me well for years now and I don't really have a compelling reason to change that (apart from the "oooh, new shiny", which I've increasingly been able to resist as time goes by).

    PSN: DonOsito

  • quadfather 12 Jun 2013 12:44:57 11,992 posts
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    @dominalien - that was the situation I was in up until about 2 months ago when I moved house. The living room is exactly square, large and has high ceilings. I've taken advantage of this and put the sofa in a position where I can finally get the speakers in the right place.

    I can say without a doubt that it does make a marked difference when they're all in the right spot.

    At least, it does to me anyway

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • dominalien 12 Jun 2013 12:49:11 6,848 posts
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    I also believe it does, which is why I wouldn't even dream of cramming a 7.1 setup into a room with the sofa against the wall. :-)

    Anyway, all the best with your new system. Good sound is great.

    PSN: DonOsito

  • quadfather 12 Jun 2013 14:20:27 11,992 posts
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    Cheers. Dying to get that bloody amp now and check it out

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • gamingdave 13 Jun 2013 10:54:52 4,216 posts
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    Great bargain you got there quadfather, should be a nice upgrade and more than adequate.

    Personally not as fussed by the upgrade from 5.1 to 7.1 but if I had a dedicated room and the money I would go for it regardless. It is better (assuming the disk is mastered for it) but to me spreading the money on better but fewer speakers makes more of a difference, especially with my current layout.

    I have heard those wharfedales and wasn't impressed, though that was when I was looking for some new stereo speakers for my office. As rear effect speakers they would probably be ok but then it depends how well they balance with the rest of your current setup.

    I'd be very wary of using 2 different subs in the same setup, it will be a nightmare to get them balanced. Sub placement and setup isn't the easiest at the best of times but if they have different ratings it becomes a whole lot harder.

    I'd stick with one good sub. For the best value subs look no further than here: http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers.htm
  • quadfather 13 Jun 2013 11:07:36 11,992 posts
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    @gamingdave - Thanks for the info, it is very much appreciated.

    Agree on quality over quantity too, but as my current receiver is 7.1 and the onkyo is as well + got the room, I might as well take advantage of it. Plus I might experiment with front sides and/or front heights. Not done that before.

    Do you mean the wharfedale diamonds or the wharfedale monitors?

    Thing is, I need to replace the monitors with something anyway, as they can't cut it with the record decks, so that's another thing I need to look at.

    I don't know whether to get some replacements for the deck speakers and then use the wharfedale monitors as surround backs, or what, really.

    What might be a good idea is to get another pair of JBL control 1's for the surround backs, as then, all 4 surround speakers would be the same. The fronts and centre's wouldn't be the same, but at least they're the same as each other, limiting the mixing and matching.

    And I think you're right about the subs. I'll have a look at that site and have a shufty

    And I'll buy another lottery ticket :)

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Armoured_Bear 13 Jun 2013 11:21:45 10,608 posts
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    quadfather wrote:
    @gamingdave - Thanks for the info, it is very much appreciated.

    Agree on quality over quantity too, but as my current receiver is 7.1 and the onkyo is as well + got the room, I might as well take advantage of it. Plus I might experiment with front sides and/or front heights. Not done that before.

    Do you mean the wharfedale diamonds or the wharfedale monitors?

    Thing is, I need to replace the monitors with something anyway, as they can't cut it with the record decks, so that's another thing I need to look at.

    I don't know whether to get some replacements for the deck speakers and then use the wharfedale monitors as surround backs, or what, really.

    What might be a good idea is to get another pair of JBL control 1's for the surround backs, as then, all 4 surround speakers would be the same. The fronts and centre's wouldn't be the same, but at least they're the same as each other, limiting the mixing and matching.

    And I think you're right about the subs. I'll have a look at that site and have a shufty

    And I'll buy another lottery ticket :)
    The most important matching is with Centre and Front Speakers, far more important than matching front and backs.

    XBL : ecosse011172
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  • Dougs 13 Jun 2013 11:24:30 67,264 posts
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    Any decent resources/advice on placement? I have a very small front room, with a set up not dissimilar to this:

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/speakers/1317467-5-1-setup-corner-tv-two-sofas-small-room-help.html

    I've stuck the rears behind the sofa on the lefthand wall, rather than try and spread them out around the room, with fronts and centre by the telly. Sub is on a fireplace hearth to the left of the telly.
  • quadfather 13 Jun 2013 11:33:37 11,992 posts
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    @Armoured_Bear - Yes, I specifically got the same 'range' model of centre speaker with the fronts.

    Still thinking that 4 jbl's would sort both the surround and the deck speakers out though. Or at least 2 for surround and then save up for something better for the decks

    ah shit, forgot about the sub, need that too, heh

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • quadfather 13 Jun 2013 12:10:48 11,992 posts
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    @Dougs - Can the telly be moved, or does it have to stay where it is?

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Dougs 13 Jun 2013 12:14:54 67,264 posts
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    Nup, has to stay where it is. There's a fireplace in the middle (and wall mounted has been ruled out), that side is the only place with power points.
  • quadfather 13 Jun 2013 13:09:05 11,992 posts
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    ok,

    Any chance of moving the sofa so it's in the bottom left at an angle so that it faces the tv? If so, I'd try and separate the fronts as much as physically possible from each other (if you can)

    You need to put the centre speaker either above or below the tv, no matter where you're sitting

    If you do move the sofa, you could wall mount the surround speakers to the left and right of the sofa (or slightly behind it if possible), or put them on stands at your ear height as you sit down

    If you can't move the sofa, I'd still try and move the fronts away from each other if possible and then I'd focus on having the surround on one of the sofa's instead of both (I'd go for the 3 seater and try and fit the surround behind it, if at all possible - you'll at least have a good surround in one area, but not on the 2 seater. But I think that's better than having poor surround on either sofa

    I've seen a website somewhere that focuses on odd shaped 5.1 setups - I can't find it at the moment, but I'll see if I can dig it out

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Dougs 13 Jun 2013 13:21:50 67,264 posts
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    Cheers - sadly can't move the sofas either (as that's where the way to the door is!). I have got the rears to the L&R of the LH sofa (the pic above was just illustrative, not exactly my set up) - as you say, at least I get one sofa with good surround! Will see what can be done about fronts. Limited where they can go though, as I've no bases for them so they have to perch somewhere - and given the shape of the room, might look odd wall mounted (not that I'd get permission..) Centre speaker I can move to the TV cabinet below (or would underneath on the floor work better?). It's one of the reasons I haven't gone all out on a set-up and am using an ageing Pioneer inherited - I know the room is far from ideal.
  • quadfather 13 Jun 2013 13:42:38 11,992 posts
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    Ok, with you now I think

    So you've got your surrounds in possibly the best place. That's a good start

    The centre speaker needs to be as close as humanly possible to the tv to give the illusion of the dialogue coming from the screen. It doesn't matter whether it goes above or below, but what does matter is to try and get it to your ear level when you're sitting down looking at the screen. It's always a pain trying to get everything spot on and with tricky rooms (and girlfriends/wives!) it makes it even harder, but that's the spot you need to aim for either way.

    As for the fronts, is getting some stands a viable solution? Are they massive speakers, or bookshelves, or satellites, or?

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • quadfather 13 Jun 2013 13:46:49 11,992 posts
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    can someone recommend me a subwoofer around the 200 mark? I can't really afford the BW ones that GamingDave suggested. I'd just like one that would work well with the onkyo txsr608. Mines on the blink - it can't handle what I've got already, never mind what I'm about to connect it up to when I get the other amp

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Dougs 13 Jun 2013 13:49:48 67,264 posts
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    Gotcha, centre speaker is in the right place then, just below the telly. L&R more difficult. Might try and put one on the mantlepiece so it's further away. The other might be more difficult. Appreciate the advice. :)
  • quadfather 13 Jun 2013 14:02:44 11,992 posts
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    if you can't move them it's not the end of the world. It'll just sound better if they're a few metres apart / how much ocd you have for these things :)

    Good job on the centre. Just the fronts left.

    Where's the sub?

    No prob on advice, I'm still trying to find that website. I enjoy torturing myself with speaker placement. I need a therapist :)

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • gamingdave 13 Jun 2013 14:02:47 4,216 posts
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    quadfather wrote:
    can someone recommend me a subwoofer around the 200 mark? I can't really afford the BW ones that GamingDave suggested. I'd just like one that would work well with the onkyo txsr608. Mines on the blink - it can't handle what I've got already, never mind what I'm about to connect it up to when I get the other amp
    Oh yes you can, the Gemini is only 215. Seriously, you're not going to find a better value sub on the market at that price.
  • gamingdave 13 Jun 2013 14:06:24 4,216 posts
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    @Dougs It's all about experimentation, but the center placement is key. Does your amp allow for any calibration of speakers independently such as setting distance.

    Don't be afraid with experimenting with the angle of them either, it may be that you can compensate for one speaker being closer to you or the center by angling it out, or indeed angling the other further in.

    I wouldn't get too het up about the surrounds either. When perfectly positioned they certainly do add, especially in action films, but even without perfect layout they will still add an extra layer to films. If they sound too unbalanced again try angling and if you can turn them down (volume, not position) so they are less intrusive in the sound mix.
  • Dougs 13 Jun 2013 14:12:01 67,264 posts
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    There's certainly calibration, but it's been a while since I set it up and I can't remember whether it includes distance. (and when I did set it up I was flying blind, really). As for angle, I have a 3 year old who is forever mucking about with them, they're normally pointed at the wall (or on the floor!) before I notice! Sub is below the TV to the left (and can't move much either - it's a US system so is connected to a step-down transformer and is on a short cord!). I could move it behind the TV, but I quite like it where it is.
  • quadfather 13 Jun 2013 15:13:12 11,992 posts
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    gamingdave wrote:
    quadfather wrote:
    can someone recommend me a subwoofer around the 200 mark? I can't really afford the BW ones that GamingDave suggested. I'd just like one that would work well with the onkyo txsr608. Mines on the blink - it can't handle what I've got already, never mind what I'm about to connect it up to when I get the other amp
    Oh yes you can, the Gemini is only 215. Seriously, you're not going to find a better value sub on the market at that price.
    Excellent! thanks - why the hell didn't I see that first time round?! :)

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • quadfather 2 Jul 2013 14:42:55 11,992 posts
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    billythekid wrote:
    Eighty fucking pounds???!?!?!?!?
    I've got that amp and I love it, can't really fault it at all.
    I have it connected to Q Acoustics speakers and personally think it sounds great.

    As said, for 80 it's a no brainer!
    Well, I've got it - all boxed with manual - very good nick. Going to set it up tonight now I've got all the speakers sorted.

    Do you (or anyone else) have any tips for setting up this amp for the first time? The guy that I got it from said that it'd need completely resetting as it's currently configured for his setup.

    I am assuming that he means the Audyssey speaker calibration? Or is there some other mystery I'm unaware of? Another guy at works says to not turn it on with any speakers connected to first time round, although when I questioned why, he said "A mate said that once"

    Sigh :)

    Hence I'm asking here!

    Just reading the pdf too

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Armoured_Bear 2 Jul 2013 14:46:30 10,608 posts
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    quadfather wrote:
    billythekid wrote:
    Eighty fucking pounds???!?!?!?!?
    I've got that amp and I love it, can't really fault it at all.
    I have it connected to Q Acoustics speakers and personally think it sounds great.

    As said, for 80 it's a no brainer!
    Well, I've got it - all boxed with manual - very good nick. Going to set it up tonight now I've got all the speakers sorted.

    Do you (or anyone else) have any tips for setting up this amp for the first time? The guy that I got it from said that it'd need completely resetting as it's currently configured for his setup.

    I am assuming that he means the Audyssey speaker calibration? Or is there some other mystery I'm unaware of? Another guy at works says to not turn it on with any speakers connected to first time round, although when I questioned why, he said "A mate said that once"

    Sigh :)

    Hence I'm asking here!

    Just reading the pdf too
    I'd do a factory reset and run the audyssey calibration.
    The guy at work is talking pish.

    XBL : ecosse011172
    PSN : ecosse_011172
    NNID : armoured_bear

  • quadfather 2 Jul 2013 14:49:46 11,992 posts
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    Cool, nice one. I'll scan the document for the factory reset.

    Sorted out the back speakers now too with some more wharfedales and some stands. I don't think I can get them in a better position than how they are now, so if it's not ideal, it's tough shit basically

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • quadfather 19 Nov 2013 13:10:48 11,992 posts
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    Hi again.

    I've got a really stupid question which will hopefully get answered quickly to end this, but I'm trying to work out what speakers I can connect to the onkyo tx-nr608 receiver. It's down as a 7.2 amp.

    And it has these connections

    I've currently got it wired up to fronts, centre, surround and surround backs. But I've recently got a projector which is fairly high up on the wall. As the room has high ceilings, I was thinking about putting some front height speakers in. I know they're only presence speakers and I'm not expecting to be blown away by configuring it this way, but it will hopefully make good use of the size of the wall. Plus the 4 surrounds sometimes are taking over the sound stage, so it might help rebalance everything.

    Question is, I was under the impression that I'd have to sacrifice my surround backs and wire them up as the front heights, but looking at the manual, it's not 100% clear (to me, at least)

    On page 13 of the manual, on the left side of the page you can see what speaker options are available. Now look at where it explains the notes 1 and 2. Especially 2 - Front high, surround back and front wide speakers cannot be used at the same time.

    Do you read that as you can't have all those 3 sets of speakers setup, or do you read it that you can't have any 2 combinations of those 3 setups running at the same time?

    As if you go back to the connections picture, you can see that one says, "Front high or front wide" and the next one says, "surround back, or front high, or front wide"

    so I was thinking, why can't I have the first set as front high, and the second set as surround back?

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • quadfather 19 Nov 2013 17:15:27 11,992 posts
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    Anyone have any idea on this before I start drilling into walls?

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • istandfreed 19 Nov 2013 18:04:43 2,388 posts
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    It sounds like it would be an awesome setup, if you can pull it off. Remember reading an article where a guy visted Dolby's studios and they had 9.2 set up, believe they had four heightened front speakers that created an amazing waterfall effect.

    Only thing I can say is, you're likely better off asking in avforums, those guys know their stuff. Good luck, let us know if it works.
  • istandfreed 19 Nov 2013 18:04:43 2,388 posts
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  • quadfather 19 Nov 2013 18:18:15 11,992 posts
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    Yeah I did post something there but not had any replies yet and I'm an impatient sod :)

    My amp is only 7.2 and I'm effectively trying to wire up 9.2 though so unless the last 2 channels are matrixed instead of discrete I'm not sure how its going to work.

    I'll check the receiver menus tonight to see what options I have.

    Gotta make use of the wall - its about 12-14 feet high so I'm hoping some front heights will make an effect.

    I'll be in touch :)

    psn quaddy456, Dark Souls tips

  • Armoured_Bear 9 May 2014 23:11:56 10,608 posts
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    My cunting Pioneer Receiver has decided to shit itself a few months out of warranty.
    Arse biscuits.

    XBL : ecosse011172
    PSN : ecosse_011172
    NNID : armoured_bear

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