National Novel Writing Month 2012 Page 42

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  • Salaman 10 Dec 2012 10:53:24 19,594 posts
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    Blerk wrote:
    I've got loads of stuff that's not up on the blog yet, I'll try to sort that out tonight too.
    That was 4 days ago. Get to it Blerk! Stop doing that Sloth impression and get posting!
  • TechnoHippy 10 Dec 2012 10:57:15 14,716 posts
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    Agreed!

    My books, contests, reviews and author interviews on my blog

  • Blerk Moderator 10 Dec 2012 11:24:59 48,225 posts
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    I was... ah... washing my hair?

    I did do some writing over the weekend, another couple o' thousand words. But my free time is being severely impacted by the missus being off work. She's back in on Wednesday so I'm hoping to get properly back on the writing train then.

    In the meantime, I'll get the damn stuff on the blog. Keep nagging me. :)
  • Salaman 10 Dec 2012 13:19:50 19,594 posts
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    It's your lack of posting finished work that worries me. lack of time to write more is acceptable and excusable. Not uploading ready content isn't. :-)
  • MetalDog 10 Dec 2012 13:36:56 23,920 posts
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    You got them hooked, Blerk, now be a responsible pusher and give them their fix ;)

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • Blerk Moderator 10 Dec 2012 14:00:41 48,225 posts
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    The lack of publishing is entirely down to my inability to just throw stuff up onto the blog without giving it a quick proof-read once-over. Which invariably leads to me making some changes. And then a five minute 'get all the latest stuff on the internet' turns into a three hour 'those four words aren't quite right'. :)
  • Salaman 10 Dec 2012 14:11:31 19,594 posts
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    Oh you writers. *rolls eyes*
    We'll proof read. Less drama and more posting from you, you diva. =)

    Edited by Salaman at 14:49:09 10-12-2012
  • MetalDog 10 Dec 2012 14:14:05 23,920 posts
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    I've posted several updates with bits in that I absolutely hate - Blerk, you fix those later!

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • Blerk Moderator 10 Dec 2012 14:37:25 48,225 posts
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    I know! I know.

    But I can't do it. :D
  • Blerk Moderator 10 Dec 2012 22:55:01 48,225 posts
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    Okay, here you go - Chapter 9 in its entirety.

    I've got a sizeable chunk of Chapter 10 done too, but I'll post that later. Probably. :D
  • MetalDog 10 Dec 2012 23:11:21 23,920 posts
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    Oh Blerk, you tease =D

    An update from me too:
    overtime 3

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • Salaman 11 Dec 2012 00:20:48 19,594 posts
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    Blerk wrote:
    Okay, here you go - Chapter 9 in its entirety.

    I've got a sizeable chunk of Chapter 10 done too, but I'll post that later. Probably. :D
    Yaaay. None too soon that. :-)

    Whether it was the same boy that Jake had seen on our first day I had no idea,

    Dan, not Jake

    Your transition from the gate of the compound to the cottage is a little too sudden.
    They're outside the gate, the gate shuts, they head off then next thing is they realise jenson is gone but the catches their attention with a stone. It makes it seem as if the cottage is a stone's throw from the gate. If you can insert another sentence that mentions the time spent walking or the distance covered walking before that you're golden.

    Minor niggle but I found it a little weird that Jake would lose track of the boys instantly in the house. If three people enter an abandoned place and one lingers a little, it'd presumably be quite easy to locate the other two just from the sound of their footsteps or voices. Two teenagers in a deserted house, bound to be some excited conversation going on.

    Thankfully there was once again no sign Simpson at reception
    sign of

    “Professor?” I asked after he had spent a few minutes lost in thought. He looked up as though just noticing me for the first time.
    Did Jake really stand there for a few minutes, looking expectantely at Carver? Otherwise it might be better to make it "what seemed like a few minutes". If you've ever done a minute of silence, you know it's a bloody long time. 2 people in conversation, with one zoning out for a few entire minutes seems a little weird. Although him zoning out perfectly matches Carver's character.

    Aaaaah nice long read that. :-)
    I'm more and more intrigued by your G-man, Kurt not to mention what the hell happened on that planet to all the people recently (well we arrived most likely) why it didn't happen to that boy, what the military is up to exactly as I assume once we know all that we also know who killed Jake's wife. /spoiler]
    Write on man. Write on. ;-)
  • Salaman 11 Dec 2012 00:34:15 19,594 posts
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    MD ... good stuff. Some answers and people on the move.
    Dumb question maybe but is cyan the same as red?
    So is it blue -> red -> black (although I think at one point you mentioned yellow as well or am I imagining that?).
    Not sure where cyan fits in but if it's red, maybe call it red as a concession to male readers. :-)
  • RobTheBuilder 11 Dec 2012 01:58:36 6,521 posts
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    Chapter 25 - Part Two

    Tony and co enter the rock club...

    http://nanowrimo-theentertainer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/25-oh-what-night-part-two.html
  • MetalDog 11 Dec 2012 07:49:30 23,920 posts
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    @Salaman
    Cheers dude.
    Cyan.
    Did you know, the more colours you can name, the more colours you can see? Resist the so-called 'manly' urge to reduce your world to the colour palette of a box of bargain crayons and embrace the awesome diversity of shade and tone. To make a musical comparison, to do otherwise is to deny the value of minor key. Foodwise, it's insisting on white sliced bread. =D

    Heppa goes like this:
    White - antidote
    Tan - entry level
    Yellow
    Green
    Cyan
    Blue
    Violet
    Red
    Black - top level (officially)

    Although I'm not sure how important it is for you to have that spelled out so blanky.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • Blerk Moderator 11 Dec 2012 08:33:04 48,225 posts
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    @Salaman
    Man, you don't hang about, do you? :D

    Super thanks for the feedback, as usual - I'm finding little that I don't agree with in that little lot! I'll try and get the first half of Chapter 10 up tonight. And maybe do a little more actual writing too, if I'm really pushing the boat out. :)
  • sunjumper 11 Dec 2012 09:08:57 3,248 posts
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    OMG a Blerk update? Maybe the rumors are right and the universe will end soon!

    No up-date from me yesterday because my new chapter is being an obnoxious little monster. I did get somewhere between 1k and 1.5k written yesterday. So it is getting closer.
    To answer your question MetalDog I am at least two thirds through the story. It should be done somewhere between the 60k and 70k mark.


    Wrapping it up though is somewhat complicated.
  • Salaman 11 Dec 2012 09:44:00 19,594 posts
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    MetalDog wrote:
    @Salaman
    Cheers dude.
    Cyan.
    Did you know, the more colours you can name, the more colours you can see? Resist the so-called 'manly' urge to reduce your world to the colour palette of a box of bargain crayons and embrace the awesome diversity of shade and tone. To make a musical comparison, to do otherwise is to deny the value of minor key. Foodwise, it's insisting on white sliced bread. =D

    Heppa goes like this:
    White - antidote
    Tan - entry level
    Yellow
    Green
    Cyan
    Blue
    Violet
    Red
    Black - top level (officially)

    Although I'm not sure how important it is for you to have that spelled out so blanky.
    It's nice to know for frame of reference. I started reading your story and heppa and refresh is constantly mentioned, so it seems fairly important. Then blue and black heppa is mentioned, so you mentally adjust from "some type of performance enhancing or altering drug / boost" to "a spectrum of performance enhancing or altering drugs / boosts".
    Then red gets mentioned and this presumed spectrum broadens. Then yellow gets a mention, then violet gets chucked in at some point Cyan is brought out.

    I guess how many there are isn't in any way relevant to the story but it's very relevant to the overall universe the story is set in. Being new to this universe, I just build a hypothesis of how it works and its mechanics. When the story throws up stuff that doesn't fit in the model of your universe that I've built, I have to adjust it. When new information is added that I hadn't taken into account, I adjust it as well.

    With the heppa it was clear it's important and inferred what it does. It becomes apparent there's 2 different sorts. No wait 3 different sort. Actually 4. And there's a hierarchy. So then you start to guess at the hierarchy and how it's linked to organisational hierarchy. Then there's 5. Well there's 6 actually. And it's not 100% clear anymore what the order is. So it ends up being a distraction + you wonder if there's just 6 then or 8? 10? 12? It's good to have it fixed so it doesn't distract.

    Another new thing learned today: cyan is a blue-green-ish colour. Not some form of red as I thought. I have to admit non standard colours do my head in a bit. Mostly because they're so vague. When I looked up cyan, wikipedia helpfully defined it as "may be used as the name of any of a number of colours in the blue/green range of the spectrum."
  • MetalDog 11 Dec 2012 10:02:35 23,920 posts
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    @Salaman
    It may be used that way by some, but to me it will always be the neon-pale-bluer-than-green of the ZX Spectrum colour 5 =)

    There's more than one type of each colour class of Heppa too - tech, exec, constabulary, etc. I may list the basic colours on the pre-chapter one flysheets as an experiment, but the subtleties aren't important this time around.

    @Sunjumper
    Always is!

    I have notes for you and techno, I'll type them up when I get a moment.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • Salaman 11 Dec 2012 10:08:28 19,594 posts
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    .

    Edited by Salaman at 10:09:03 11-12-2012
  • MetalDog 11 Dec 2012 10:11:36 23,920 posts
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    Haha! God, it almost is that chart, isn't it? Cyan is a bit out, the blue is way out and Tan is missing, but yeah - my subconscious is a sneak thief =D

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • Salaman 11 Dec 2012 11:06:17 19,594 posts
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    yeah I thought it was until I posted, looked at it side by side and realised it's not quite there. Hence the delete. :-)
  • MetalDog 11 Dec 2012 12:47:29 23,920 posts
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    @Sunjumper
    part 8

    I wasn't convinced the musical stories thing was going to work, but you sold me on it in the end =)

    Viewpoint shift to DC at the end of that part - I don't recommend shifting viewpoints mid-scene unless you're a wizard at the omnipotent viewpoint, which 99.9% of us aren't. I won't bang on about this too much, but there are wobbles in your viewpoint in the train conversation in the next chapter too - are you subconsciously drifting when characters are speaking?

    The child vs baritone image is lovely!

    Too much telling in this part:
    Now that (unreadable scrawl) had seen her relaxed, he noticed that her powerful personality was not really aggressive, just strong.
    This is something that you'd be better off showing us via her action, imo. Shorthand for first draft, but fix on second?

    part 9

    Metaphor and simile city at the start of this one. You have a couple of /really/ awesome ones in there, but they're robbed of their power by the others. Less is more!
    The two I really liked (you may have other favourites) was the smoke/fabric in the taxi, that was gold - and int. warehouse desc of all the junk having come in to huddle out of the rain - awesome.

    Credit card throwdown being unsatisfactory in the drama department was nice.

    The potential in the latest development for high sacrifice and drama is huge, very nicely done =D

    One last complaint, the speech is still too formal for my mental ear. You say it's deliberate in Turner, but Kim speaks that way too. The closest analogy I can think of is that it's like listening to friends use 'Sie' instead of 'Du' all the time.

    @techno
    I'm going to have to get back to you later tonight, Techno. I'm looking at the notes I made on the train Friday night and they make no fucking sense at all. I'll have to re-read that bit to refresh my memory on what my shaky-handed scrawl means. I'm trying to remember if I was drinking friday night... I think I was.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • sunjumper 11 Dec 2012 13:02:42 3,248 posts
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    @MetalDog

    Thank you for your awesome feedback!

    The viewpoint shifts are something I have to work on. They have to be made clear, or left out.

    You are right the Kim bit is a bit rubbish. As the story progresses the point become more clear simply by her actions. She is very kind in a rabid way. So in the next draft that sentence is going to die.

    Once I return to the text to edit I will have to work through the metaphors and similes. I think entering a city of constant rain brought me back into Europa mode. I will keep an eye on it.

    The formal speech thing is probably my own voice bleeding over into the conversations, when I am typing faster than my brain can translate the ideas into the voices of the characters.
    The Devil should be the most formal, then Turner, then D.C. and [other character] and Kim last. With Cray changing from one mode to the other.

    The credit card bit is the result from me trying out the exact same thing for a film scene learning the hard way that things in real life do not fall a skitter in a dramatically appropriate fashion.

    The Price of Turner's power is something that has me worried. I like how it is turning out but so far I am not convinced I am going to be able to pull it off in an effective way.



    P.S. What made the musical story work for you? It is one of the things I was skeptical about while writing and I'd love to know what made it click for you.


    P.P.S. and @everyone
    Once things have quieted down would any of you try to find out what makes the omniscient narrator that can switch perspectives at will work? Obviously there is a trick to it which has to be rather counter intuitive else everyone would do it.
    In the end the great thing about the 3rd person is that you get to see the story from everyone's point of view. Having to limit that it a bit crap...

    Edited by sunjumper at 13:05:31 11-12-2012
  • MetalDog 11 Dec 2012 13:17:02 23,920 posts
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    @Sunjumper
    You might benefit from reading 'Character and Viewpoint'. You may not agree with Card, but the general mechanics of viewpoint are very clearly set out in that book.

    ***Purely Personal Opinion Alert***
    The reason Omnipotent doesn't work so often is usually down to one (or more) of three things as far as I can tell.
    1) Not enough signposts, so you lose track of who's saying and thinking what
    2) The switches aren't done often enough, so always come as a jarring surprise when they show up (this is what I get from your shifts).
    3) The omnipotent viewpoint creates more distance between the reader and the character than even the most distant third person will (first person is usually the closest relationship, ignoring the madness of second person). This distance is damaging to character-centric stories, but won't harm a story more focused on the world or the plot.
    ***all clear***

    As with all things writing, what matters most is how you feel about it, because it doesn't matter what or how you write, someone will disagree and someone will love it =D

    All viewpoints have advantages and disadvantages, it's always a trade off. The only way to get good at your favoured one is probably practice rather than any trick.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • sunjumper 11 Dec 2012 13:23:42 3,248 posts
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    @MetalDog

    I will have a look at that, thanks.

    It also helps to learn from others. Look at thing that work well, then try to find out why and how that may work with ones own style.
    In writing one is always in that incredibly difficult spot where one needs a good framework as a starting point while also remaining free from strict rules that simply don't work for one as a writer.
    "Should I do this because Great Author X does it?"
    "Can I just ignore that, because I think it's bullshit?"
    "Am I ignoring this just because it is less work?"
    Things like that.
  • MetalDog 11 Dec 2012 13:33:50 23,920 posts
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    When I started out on my first novel I was all 'rules are for fools! I won't let any stupid conventions limit my creativity!' and I would sooner kill you than let you read the results of that approach =D

    I did learn a lot in the process though, so I don't consider it wasted time. Rules can be broken and you'll never know if it's worth it until you try. It's good practice to say 'fuck the rules' every now and then. Just know why they're there to begin with. Ignore anyone who tells you that you'll never get anywhere unless you obey the rules they say are inviolate.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • sunjumper 11 Dec 2012 13:49:31 3,248 posts
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    Exactly.
    Just knowing the right balance is a hard thing to do.

    I'd say that one of the best approaches is to understand the rules and why they are there and then acting from a point of informed opinion break or bend them.
  • MetalDog 11 Dec 2012 13:58:55 23,920 posts
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    Sometimes it works out, sometimes it creates a horror you have to beat to death with a shovel and bury in a shallow grave in the woods before anyone else can find out.

    -- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.

  • sunjumper 11 Dec 2012 14:10:21 3,248 posts
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    MetalDog wrote:
    Sometimes it works out, sometimes it creates a horror you have to beat to death with a shovel and bury in a shallow grave in the woods before anyone else can find out.
    The funny thing is that what you just said is true for both sticking to rules as well as ignoring them. :-D

    We live and learn.
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