Gaming HTPC Page 4

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  • Deleted user 17 September 2012 20:31:23
    From one extreme to other.
  • Bremenacht 17 Sep 2012 20:51:23 15,753 posts
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    CrispyXUK wrote:
    From one extreme to other.
    Heh. Nice idea though.

    Once an eagle taught me courage. And I will never forget that day

  • FutileResistor 17 Sep 2012 20:53:36 1,208 posts
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    Post deleted
  • FutileResistor 17 Sep 2012 22:20:53 1,208 posts
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    Sorry TVoj, I didn't read your post very carefully as at first I thought you were reposting a component list for your friend's HTPC.

    If you do a search for the A6-3670K, you'll see that the cooler is not huge and should be fine to fit.

    Mini-itx really restricts your choice of motherboards, you should still be able to find a suitable one for around 55 to 60. Just go to google shopping and type in mini-itx FM1 and sort by price.

    I think most FM1 boards will support dual monitors using some combination of HDMI/DVI/D-Sub. You should check the individual motherboard manual to see what resloutions and combinations are supported.

    It seems that some Asus FM1 boards will not support DVI and HDMI as a combination, so you really must check the motherboard manual carefully.

    Also remember the AMD APUs (CPU+GPU on one chip) get a performance boost from faster RAM. You can get 4GB of Corsair Vengeance 1600MHz DDR3 for around 16.

    Edited by FutileResistor at 23:04:17 17-09-2012
  • TVoJ 17 Sep 2012 23:24:36 1,376 posts
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    Isn't that a 4Gb chip tho? The board only takes 4 and that's over 2 slots so I'm assuming 2 per slot? I could be wrong tho.

    With regards to the raspberry pi, I'd love to try it and think it would probably do. But I won't be the only one using it unfortunately and it's tiresome enough showing staff how to change a till roll or auto sum columns in exel so fuck that! :)
  • Deleted user 17 September 2012 23:34:44
    @TvoJ

    Fair enough, I can see why the Rasp Pi wouldn't be ideal for those users, which is a shame because you can power the whole PI from a modern TV's USB port.

    But it already sounds like a little Database Form App (bound to some SQL table queries) with MS Access, or OpenOffice Base could save you from showing staff how to auto sum columns in MS Excel.
  • TVoJ 17 Sep 2012 23:39:36 1,376 posts
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    The spreadsheet contains about a weeks worth of bets. At the end of every day you have to total up the days taking and payouts. Real simple, and we don't keep the records past a week so no real need for scripts.
  • FutileResistor 18 Sep 2012 10:57:26 1,208 posts
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    TVoJ wrote:
    Isn't that a 4Gb chip tho? The board only takes 4 and that's over 2 slots so I'm assuming 2 per slot? I could be wrong tho.

    With regards to the raspberry pi, I'd love to try it and think it would probably do. But I won't be the only one using it unfortunately and it's tiresome enough showing staff how to change a till roll or auto sum columns in exel so fuck that! :)
    FM1 boards typically support dual channel up to 32GB of RAM.

    Sorry, assumed that two 2GB sticks of Corsair Vengeance were around the same price as a single 4GB. Seems to be around 22 for a pair of 2GB sticks.

    Gskill RipjawsX is just as good.

    Edited by FutileResistor at 11:09:40 18-09-2012
  • Armoured_Bear 10 Oct 2012 22:26:56 8,748 posts
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    I ordered the following
    Lian-Li PC-C60 Case
    2x Be Quiet! Silent Wings 2 140mm case fans
    Seasonic X-560 PSU

    I'm struggling to choose the motherboard to go with the 3570K, between an Asus P8Z77-M or a PRO P8Z77-V PRO
    The M is a Micro ATX board which is smaller so maybe better for hear and airflow, the V board is full size and more expensive but has wi-fi.

    I'll use ethernet connected to my router which has my Airport Express plugged in but maybe having in built wi-fi would be handy.
    Hmm..

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  • Armoured_Bear 11 Oct 2012 10:37:14 8,748 posts
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    MicroATX it is.

    Any RAM recommendations?
    I'll be getting 2x4GB

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  • Deleted user 11 October 2012 11:12:45
    @Armoured_Bear

    I'm surprised you've chosen a motherboard that is only dual channel memory(rather than, tri or quad channel) as it is a big and easy performance win; especially with a high-end multi-core CPU with good amounts of level 2 cache.

    Memory I/O will typically bottleneck everything in a system, especially when running sandbox games; as it reduces north and south bridge efficiency while streaming data because of cache misses. It also means the board isn't very future proof.
  • Armoured_Bear 11 Oct 2012 12:10:36 8,748 posts
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    vizzini wrote:
    @Armoured_Bear

    I'm surprised you've chosen a motherboard that is only dual channel memory(rather than, tri or quad channel) as it is a big and easy performance win; especially with a high-end multi-core CPU with good amounts of level 2 cache.

    Memory I/O will typically bottleneck everything in a system, especially when running sandbox games; as it reduces north and south bridge efficiency while streaming data because of cache misses. It also means the board isn't very future proof.
    Hi Vizzini,

    What motherboard/chipset would you suggest?

    Cheers

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  • Armoured_Bear 11 Oct 2012 12:48:20 8,748 posts
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    vizzini in controversial advce shocker!

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  • Deleted user 11 October 2012 13:20:49
    @rodpad
    You are overly simplifying, as all dual memory channel CPUs don't have the same bandwidth, and many devices can DMA.

    The general rule is that more channels provides more throughput, even just by reliability, much the same as RAID controllers with more independent channels using RAID0

    @armoured_bear

    I'll have a look and get back
  • FanBoysSuck 11 Oct 2012 13:30:57 1,385 posts
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    What are you on about now vizzini? Last time I checked only high end i7 nehalem/sandybridge chips did tri/quad channel i.e. 1366 and 2011.

    Edited by FanBoysSuck at 13:32:09 11-10-2012

    Edited by FanBoysSuck at 13:35:49 11-10-2012

    For the emperor!

  • warlockuk 11 Oct 2012 13:34:53 19,101 posts
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    Speaking of Raspberry Pi, I finally bit the bullet and ordered one. Don't really need yet another computer or box-of-wonders-running-linux in the house, but I'm weak and just started using Netflix.

    I'm a grumpy bastard.

  • richardiox 11 Oct 2012 13:35:28 5,420 posts
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    Just order it already Ecosse you're overanalysing when you should be enjoying your new pc.
  • Deleted user 11 October 2012 13:48:42
    @FanBoySuck

    I was talking about the motherboard memory channel count without any assumption on CPU chosen when giving that comment.

    Since the dawn of Direct Memory Access, more channels usually equates to higher Maximum memory bandwidth and higher computational throughput, and games tend to data thrash systems.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_memory_access

    When Carmack did his keynote just before the release of Rage he talked about 4 data caches all working simultaneously to hide data latency

    DMA of two devices from RAID/SSD/GPU apertures, gigabit ethernet/Wifi/Blu-ray and efficient dual channel CPUs will provide superior performance in many situations over single, dual or tri channel memory.

    In this thread I initially put forward a high performance, quiet and power efficient quad channel workstation that just needed a kepler card, and most people had an overload and needed a resentment drain afterwards :).
  • pinebear 11 Oct 2012 13:52:28 8,565 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:

    The M is a Micro ATX board which is smaller so maybe better for hear and airflow
    Written like a true bilingual!

  • FanBoysSuck 11 Oct 2012 13:59:30 1,385 posts
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    @vizzini I think you're getting confused, you're referring to the amount of sockets a board has, not the channels. EG my x58 board has 6 lanes of tri-channel memory. You genuinely boggle my mind, you seem to have a good knowledge of hardware but you come out with some really stupid solutions. I think it's best for everyone if you stop trying to give advice, no matter how well informed it may be.

    For the emperor!

  • Armoured_Bear 11 Oct 2012 14:24:58 8,748 posts
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    richardiox wrote:
    Just order it already Ecosse you're overanalysing when you should be enjoying your new pc.
    The case will take a week or two to arrive, I have time for fine tuning :-)

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  • Deleted user 11 October 2012 14:25:33
    @FanBoySuck

    Not slots, as there are double in most systems compared to channels. I.e a quad channel memory systems will have 8 slots, with 4 of them marked as a unique memory channels.
  • Armoured_Bear 11 Oct 2012 14:43:22 8,748 posts
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    So, if I buy Corsair Vengeancs 1600MHz, does it matter if I get CL8 or CL9?
    How much of a differnce will it make?

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  • FanBoysSuck 11 Oct 2012 14:43:35 1,385 posts
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    @vizzini right so we're on the same page then.

    As rodpad said, memory i\o hasn't been an issue for games in a long time. So you're still giving terrible advice. I'm just glad you dropped the bollocks about getting a 2000 workstation GPU.

    For the emperor!

  • Deleted user 11 October 2012 15:19:51
    @FanBoysSuck

    Clearly you didn't read the Scaling the Performance heights paper by IBM that inspired the design of the CELL BE and all recent multi-core, or read a more recent SCEE R&D game development paper saying the exact opposite.

    Memory access time has grown linear over the same period that Moore's law has been in effect for CPU performance gains.

    Memory latency hiding is used everywhere, and developers work around it, but memory performance is a big bottleneck in computing again with SSDs reducing disk IO issues significantly.
  • FanBoysSuck 11 Oct 2012 15:34:09 1,385 posts
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    @vizzini No, to be honest I didn't know they existed and I didn't need to, I read loads of benchmarks comparing gaming performance using dual/tri/quad memory.

    Here's an example.

    You know what? It made no real world difference. Quote as much theory at me as you want, real life testing proves you wrong.

    For the emperor!

  • mikew1985 11 Oct 2012 15:37:23 12,067 posts
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    pfft, can't believe you haven't read a paper BY IBM on the cell processor - the best processor ever created and used in the best console of this generation (which M$ puposefuly pay devs to cripple).

    And as for the SCEE paper, well sir, just read it; trust me you are in for a TREAT. Those guys...

    Edited by mikew1985 at 15:37:53 11-10-2012
  • nickthegun 11 Oct 2012 15:44:54 55,866 posts
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    The worst thing is with someone with just enough knowledge to be dangerous is that someone will occasionally listen to them.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • Jeepers 11 Oct 2012 15:49:29 13,170 posts
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    I wouldn't even consider an HTPC machine that cost less than 4000.

    Without tri-channel memory there really is no point.
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