Virtual Reality a Reality? (Rift, Morpheus, Vive et al) Page 21

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  • Phattso Best Moderator, 2014 29 Nov 2012 07:06:01 15,112 posts
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    I think it is patently potentially very dodgy. It's a matter of trust. I don't believe the cash is held in escrow: beneficiaries of Kickstarter are going to need the cash to, you know, develop the product and that.

    If you don't trust, don't take a punt. If they have fucked up royally then that sucks, and I'll have learnt my lesson. My only disappointment is that they will clearly have known they weren't hitting December for a while now.

    They've lost a lot of positivity from me for repeatedly stating "we're on it, it's handled" and then not delivering. That means they're capable of being utterly full of shit, which isn't good.

    That said, it does take time to do these things and they are now making a much more capable unit than was mooted before. But I doubt their reputation would survive another delay. Also means the consumer units are that much further away.
  • Ginger 29 Nov 2012 07:15:21 6,977 posts
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    LeoliansBro wrote:
    Can I ask what legal recourse you have if they never ship you one?
    as the backer of a failed kickstarter or two in my time, none at all seems to be the simple answer.

    London open taekwondo champion

  • Phattso Best Moderator, 2014 29 Nov 2012 07:29:02 15,112 posts
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    I think if this were a product with a waiting market then what you say is entirely feasible, @LeoliansBro

    However, the stated intention of this round of devices is simply to get widespread and eclectic developer support. That is still the priority. No point in that potential crowd of content creators getting it day and date with a commercial release.

    It's also possible that the extra cash injection from Kickstarter allowed them to build the bespoke 9DOF sensor solution of their own rather than an imperfect off the shelf model. Considering the lack of positional head tracking has been among the major complaints of the early prototype I'd say this is a sensible tradeoff. If they deliver in March, I think it will have been a good decision.

    If they don't deliver in March then any commercial release will be stillborn due to lack of content because indie developers (and possibly mainstream) couldn't trust them and therefore didn't make the content.
  • Phattso Best Moderator, 2014 29 Nov 2012 07:30:44 15,112 posts
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    (it's worth noting that I wasn't going to get to play with mine until March/April next year anyway due to being in a part of the world they can't ship to - it's possible that I'd be a lot less philosophical if this were not the case)
  • Phattso Best Moderator, 2014 29 Nov 2012 07:51:37 15,112 posts
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    There are many legitimate software developers (thanks for branding the indie movement as irrelevant here, btw - on the contrary, I think they may come to define it) that have ordered larger batches of this.

    I believe early prototypes are already with the big hitters. The issue was that they were planning for 'hundreds" and ended up needing to deliver to 'thousands' which is a different scale entirely. Nutters like SB and I are probably quite a low percentage of $300 backers on this. I can't see your average Joe Punter spending that sort of cash, can you? So we are among the legitimate audience for this prototype.

    I think you're being quite absolutist about it. "I've seen a picture, therefore there's no reason in all of creation why there couldn't be 7000 of these out there already!" It's ridiculous.

    They've handled this poorly. But they can't work miracles (apparently).
  • Phattso Best Moderator, 2014 29 Nov 2012 08:07:33 15,112 posts
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    They got way more cash, and way more interest, in the $300 pledge level than they had anticipated. Knocking up a few hundred units is hard work but doable. A few thousand (I believe it's 7,000 actually) is another prospect. So they had to step up to the next level of manufacturing.

    The "big players" have the old prototype held together with gaffer tape. They're integrating support into their engines. That is so developers, when they get their devkits, can immediately go to work. This is sensible.

    The Kickstarter focus was always to developers. That was the target audience. And, I believe, that is who has responded to this (with the exception of some outliers like SB and myself).

    Your conclusions are facile, given what little evidence there is. As for the ability to mass produce at the target price point, that's entirely possible to be an issue. Interestingly, the delay works in the favour of that. Panels will get cheaper and better. The longer they wait before pulling the mainstream trigger the better.
  • Phattso Best Moderator, 2014 29 Nov 2012 08:18:47 15,112 posts
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    It is possible to drown in a sea of man tears. I think we could all see it coming. ;)
  • Phattso Best Moderator, 2014 29 Nov 2012 08:33:32 15,112 posts
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    Isn't the Mech developer an indie?

    As for Kickstarter, that's a more general problem and not just an Oculus one. It's an interesting social experiment if nothing else.

    How much would you pay for potentially absolutely nothing? :)
  • Deleted user 29 November 2012 08:56:08
    So, with Kickstarter, is there any system in place to make sure that the funds are used for what they say they will be used for? Is it entirely done on trust?
  • Deleted user 29 November 2012 09:01:06
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    The only upside here is time. If you are willing to pay a premium for the chance to get something early...
    Without the investment it wouldn't happen at all (definitely, as opposed to possibly).
  • Deleted user 29 November 2012 09:13:52
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    LeoliansBro wrote:
    The only upside here is time. If you are willing to pay a premium for the chance to get something early...
    Without the investment it wouldn't happen at all (definitely, as opposed to possibly).
    Yep, but without the investment you would still have your cash.
    Obviously.

    It's like paying for the possibility of something to happen. Is there really nothing you'd like to happen so much that you'd pay just to increase the chance?
  • nickthegun 29 Nov 2012 09:19:35 62,887 posts
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    Thats my wifes logic with lottery tickets; 'I would rather have the pound in my pocket, thanks'

    Also: WHERE IS BOB?

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    funkula

  • mrpon 29 Nov 2012 09:26:42 30,158 posts
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    Finally realised what his username is.

    Give me $10 I'm worth it.

  • Phattso Best Moderator, 2014 29 Nov 2012 10:22:59 15,112 posts
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    There is no joy in your heart, LB. :)

    I'm fortunate that the $300 isn't a vast sum for me. I was excited at the risk, and delighted at the opportunity to potentially help a childhood dream (VR) get realised in a meaningful way.

    If it flops I'm down $300, absolutely. This isn't an investment. This isn't a preorder. This is something I felt I wanted to help happen. For the good of all mankind.

    So please stop saying it's a preorder. Please stop saying its an investment. For me, it's neither. For the studios that took a punt, it was against an opportunity to make their games better and I'm sure $300 isn't going to cause them any concern either.

    The Kickstarter debate is an interesting one. Worth having. But it has been done to death a bit I think.
  • Phattso Best Moderator, 2014 29 Nov 2012 10:25:20 15,112 posts
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    Full disclosure: the only other Kickstarters I stumped up cash for are Project Eternity and Broken Sword 5. The former because I'd love to see what Obsidian can do with some self funding; the latter because I love Charles Cecil and still feel guilty for pirating Lure of the Temptress on the Amiga.

    Humans are complex things, LB. Let's not always reduce it to rational numbers. :)
  • silentbob 20 Dec 2012 19:14:51 29,079 posts
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    Fuck me it got gloomy in here. :)

    VR News: [link=http://www.roadtovr.com">www.roadtovr.com --

  • Fake_Blood 20 Dec 2012 19:45:34 4,821 posts
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    I tried keeping stuff up to date but then it turned into a kickstarter philosophy thread.
    So, you've been in a coma or something?
  • silentbob 20 Dec 2012 21:07:43 29,079 posts
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    Between work, family and building the new RtoVR website I've had fuck all time. Thanks for taking the abuse in my place though. :)

    VR News: [link=http://www.roadtovr.com">www.roadtovr.com --

  • pinkpanzer 10 Jan 2013 17:29:49 51 posts
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    From CES. At least one of these guys gets pretty hysterical about the Rift.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyUMUMtCqGY#t=34m5s
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