The Oculus Rift; VR Finally comes of age? Page 5

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  • silentbob 8 Aug 2012 08:36:41 29,026 posts
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    MrTomFTW wrote:
    silentbob wrote:
    MrTomFTW wrote:
    @silentbob Not to piss on your chips or owt, but if you're not a developer how do you intend to assemble the Rift when it finally arrives?

    You make yourself sound "not smart enough" to put to together? So are you just going to make happy cooing noises at the $300 worth of individual parts for forever more?
    Yer, cos assembling a kit it directly comparable to being a whizz with programming 3D worlds. ;)

    Anyway, they'd sold out of the self assembly kits by the time I'd got my order in.
    Well fair enough. I thought you had got one of the self assembly kits. Or I had hoped because that would have been fucking funny :-P
    And instead you made yourself look like a muppet.

    Fucking funny indeed. :)

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  • Phattso Moderator 8 Aug 2012 08:41:12 13,920 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    @Phattso No, I care, I just think that getting the dev version of experimental hardware is a little presumptuous. Unless you're a dev and have a team of coders to take advantage of it. I am a 3D asset dev and this would be a great tool for modeling, and I have a team of coders, but we're not touching it until it becomes more concrete.

    And Carmack's endorsement means nothing to me; he's backed some right shit in his time.
    Presumptuous of what? If all it ever does is play Doom 3 with head tracking it will have satisfied my main reason for getting it. It's entirely childhood wish fulfillment territory, it's an entirely frivolous purchase.

    This first run really is for content makers, not content consumers. But I don't care - it's enough for me. I just want to be part of it, even if only in a small way.

    That said, I've been meaning to get back into desktop game development for the longest time (after a decade in the Mobile wilderness, and not having made any games at all for the last two years) and this could well be the toy to kick my lazy arse back into action.

    And I stand by my earlier assertion: Rift + Doom 3 = more fun than kinect. Therefore already better value (than what I paid for Kinect on release). :)

    So know this, all ye negative bastards, and beware: if you shit on this, you're shitting on my dreams. MY DREAMS*! Justice will be swift. You have been warned.







    * I reserve the right to maximum righteous indignation if all the early positive reports are totally wrong and it's a crock of laggy, blurry, non-immersive shit.
  • silentbob 8 Aug 2012 08:41:34 29,026 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    @Phattso No, I care, I just think that getting the dev version of experimental hardware is a little presumptuous. Unless you're a dev and have a team of coders to take advantage of it. I am a 3D asset dev and this would be a great tool for modeling, and I have a team of coders, but we're not touching it until it becomes more concrete.

    And Carmack's endorsement means nothing to me; he's backed some right shit in his time.
    It's hardly presumptuous, it's based on evidence and feedback from people who have tried the less finished units. The potential wasn't just hinted at, it was proven. And besides, even if you don't rate Carmack's endorsement (and if you'd read his work on VR and watched his keynote you absolutely would), you still have Valve, Epic and Unity already onboard with a hinted 'many others' waiting in the wings.

    And even if none of this was true, not spending a paltry £200 on a kit smacks less of cautiousness and more of plain old tight-fistedness to me!

    Edited by silentbob at 08:44:40 08-08-2012

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  • Phattso Moderator 8 Aug 2012 08:46:27 13,920 posts
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    I think calling it an "endorsement" is a little off the mark also - he's not just slapping his name on something, firing off a cheesy grin and a thumbs up. He actually spent months building his own VR prototype, a lot of which borrowed directly from early Rift prototypes, and the feedback at E3 (and now Quakecon) was more than enough to suggest to me that this is going to be a decent solution.

    And as for the cost, I think I accidentally ordered the $5000 dollar one. I was probably distracted by the shining of my golden throne as I cooled myself with a flappy wad of fifty pound notes.
  • Dirtbox 8 Aug 2012 08:52:47 79,170 posts
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    I just think you're both jumping the gun a bit. I see this sort of thing happening in the next 5 years, but they're not the only horse in the stable.

    Still, your money. I hope it meets your expectations.

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  • Phattso Moderator 8 Aug 2012 08:58:34 13,920 posts
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    But neither myself nor SB is saying that Rift specifically is the thing that will change the course of human history forever.

    But I'll tell you what it is: it's the only thing that has offered to put a functional and halfway decent VR headset in front of our eyes in the next six months.

    Is that worth a wad of my disposable income? You fucking bet it is.

    Do I want to convert everyone on the forum to belief in the One True God That Is The Rift? No. Well, maybe. But not at first.
  • Dirtbox 8 Aug 2012 09:03:18 79,170 posts
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    I'm not decrying that fact that it's a great step forward, as all VR has been. But the only thing that will make this the killer app is if it had backward compatibility in the hardware, but from what I can tell, it's not something that can be retro-fitted into older games without it going through a lot of software post processing. Software which as yet no one has written. Hence needing to write new vid drivers.

    I shouldn't need to tell you how many millions nvidia poured into the R&D for that.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 09:07:12 08-08-2012

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  • Phattso Moderator 8 Aug 2012 09:12:00 13,920 posts
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    Indeed - and crucially nobody is claiming that it will do that. And for the reasons MrTom the Handsome outlined I'm not convinced this can ever truly establish a large market anyway. A lot of negative perceptions will need to be overcome first.

    But it is the thin end of the wedge. Personally, I don't really count backwards compatibility as a key feature. I don't want just the same old games with a tweaked control scheme - my personal hope is that people will craft new experiences that really make the most of the immersion. Virtual tourism. Proper horror. Escapism.

    At first, sadly, it looks like all we'll have to play is some tech demos and Doom 3 (with a tweaked control scheme) but for now that's enough to start with. And I can't see the indie and enthusiast communities not doing something with it, even if it's only a short lived fad.
  • Phattso Moderator 8 Aug 2012 09:15:04 13,920 posts
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    As an aside - Carmack's already written and handed over the shader for the post processing, and the baseline "integration" is to hand off some camera control to the Rift driver. It wouldn't be amazing, but it would do the job.

    Presumably part of this initial release to developers (and nutters like me, obviously) is to find out these holes and plug them.

    And for the same reason you're not impressed with Carmack's endorsement, the fact that nVidia's 3D work has been a bit shit should be no surprise. I remember the glasses they shipped with the GeForce 1.

    /nostalgia
  • Dirtbox 8 Aug 2012 09:16:18 79,170 posts
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    Backward compatibility means forward compatibility without the extra development requirement. Not something to be sniffed at.

    And because no one is claiming that is the reason why I think it's prude to step back for the time being to see how it goes.

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  • Phattso Moderator 8 Aug 2012 09:24:21 13,920 posts
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    I've never been scared of a bit of integration. Given the variables we're talking about it should be trivial in the scheme of things. Hooking some values into a camera system and passing some render buffers into another shader shouldn't scare anyone if they wanted to add Rift support. I'd be highly suspicious of any studio that passed on a product because they didn't want to do a bit of integration. The right reason not to bother is there may well be fuck all market to address, and little interest anyways, or it's not a good fit for the content anyways.

    That said, from a development studio perspective, I entirely agree it's prudent to step back for now. 100%. It's by no means a clever bet, and if I was still in the industry there's no way I'd start up a project on the Rift at this point.

    But I'm not. I'm just some punter with a bit of cash to burn, and a childhood dream to satisfy. :)

    Edited by Phattso at 09:25:30 08-08-2012
  • Phattso Moderator 8 Aug 2012 09:26:24 13,920 posts
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    (and it's going to be pre-integrated into Unreal Engine and Unity anyway - if it's simple enough for those Unity hacks then anyone can do it ;-) )
  • LeoliansBro 8 Aug 2012 09:30:09 44,939 posts
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    Gimme £200 and I'll give you an LG Optimus 3D P920, two rubber bands and a shoebox :)

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • LeoliansBro 8 Aug 2012 09:30:37 44,939 posts
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    Actually, scratch that.

    Hmmmm, this seems cheaper somehow suddenly.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Phattso Moderator 8 Aug 2012 09:39:06 13,920 posts
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    Hells naw. I did some work with those 3D mobiles with the parallax barrier back when they were prototypes.

    *shudder*

    I still remember the excitement when the units arrived, and the disappointment about ten seconds into using one. :)

    I'll take the shoebox and lazzy bands, though.
  • LeoliansBro 8 Aug 2012 09:40:06 44,939 posts
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    I have one :)

    (It isn't great, but it impresses ladies and they let you take photos of them).

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • Fake_Blood 8 Aug 2012 10:14:19 4,442 posts
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    I ordered one, and I'm not a dev, I'm an electro mechanical engineer.
    I'm fully aware that this thing will play but one game at launch, I don't care, I'm mainly there to try out those first tech demos and mods for existing games and flight sims.
  • silentbob 8 Aug 2012 12:45:14 29,026 posts
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    Woo! Good man! We've increased our cult membership by 33% in a matter of days!

    Next step: The world!

    RE retrofitting support, there are a couple of technical challenges (none of which particularly onerous):

    1) Shader to correct lens distortion so that the rendered image is displayed as it should once it hits your eye. Carmack knocked this up in a jiffy and has open sourced it.

    2) Stereoscopy support for presenting a suitable side-by-side frame to the HMD. This is already provided to come extent both in D3D and GPU drivers. However, Oculus' priority is to produce a universal filter / passthrough to trivilise this work.

    3) Support for reading in head tracking stats and applying them to transformations in the game. This will depend on the game engine and middleware used, as has already been mentioned this is being built into newer builds of both Unreal and Unity engines. However, I strongly suspect that branches of those engines for older versions will appear with this support added.

    In some ways, the more onerous tasks are to do with gameplay itself and how you integrate the HMD into interaction within the world. There are lots of issues to consider depending on the genre.

    Edited by silentbob at 12:52:24 08-08-2012

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  • silentbob 8 Aug 2012 12:55:26 29,026 posts
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    Phattso wrote:
    I think calling it an "endorsement" is a little off the mark also - he's not just slapping his name on something, firing off a cheesy grin and a thumbs up. He actually spent months building his own VR prototype, a lot of which borrowed directly from early Rift prototypes, and the feedback at E3 (and now Quakecon) was more than enough to suggest to me that this is going to be a decent solution.
    I think Gabe actually used those terms, so I guess it's open to interpretation in the end.

    As with all of this, time will tell.

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  • Deleted user 8 August 2012 12:57:07
    Tits
  • silentbob 9 Aug 2012 07:27:57 29,026 posts
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    An interesting take from Forbes on Ouya Vs. Oculus kickstarter viability I happen to agree with.

    Edited by silentbob at 07:28:21 09-08-2012

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  • Dangerous_Dan 9 Aug 2012 08:17:09 2,378 posts
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    Nice article.

    Don't know if this has already been mentioned but imo it's a very good time to get the oculus project going. If they do get the backing from the big engine developers like epic, carmack and valve then they are going to implement it into their engines from the get-go which will in turn be an excellent starting position for the next generation. With support being probably a standard thing.

    And also the price point will push this.
  • silentbob 9 Aug 2012 08:33:40 29,026 posts
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    One of the best heads-on articles I've yet read from Penny-Arcade - again and again the same statements "it feels real".

    The lightness of the unit is also one thing that I think is perhaps being overlooked, wearing the thing is apparently not a burden (although airflow around your face maybe another matter of course).

    I looked up, and Carmack noted how few people had seen the skylight that filled my view. I didn’t feel like I was looking at a game world through a display, I felt like I was exploring a physical environment. “This world is pretty cool, there are a lot of neat things here,” Carmack said as I silently looked around the corridor of a game I had played half a dozen times. I noticed things I had never seen before. It’s a subtle effect, as you run down the hallway, your head moves in tiny ways and the view moves with it. It feels like you’re there. The 3D effect isn’t as much as an “effect” as it is when you’re looking at a 3D monitor or theater, it feels correct and subtle.

    There was a tiny bot following me around in the game. I lost track of him before I remembered that I could move my head to look around. I peered back, and looked down over my shoulder. I saw the little bot behind my left foot, and he looked up at me. For that moment, we were looking into each other’s eyes. A slight shudder of pleasure ran through my body. This is the future.
    My positivity for this project grows and grows! :)

    Edited by silentbob at 08:34:35 09-08-2012

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  • silentbob 9 Aug 2012 08:37:32 29,026 posts
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    Dangerous_Dan wrote:
    Nice article.

    Don't know if this has already been mentioned but imo it's a very good time to get the oculus project going. If they do get the backing from the big engine developers like epic, carmack and valve then they are going to implement it into their engines from the get-go which will in turn be an excellent starting position for the next generation. With support being probably a standard thing.

    And also the price point will push this.
    It's the fact that the assembled parts for this unit are so cheap, as they are off the shelf. Additionally, the whole thing can hit the ground running as they essentially have a working prototype which is so near to the finished article they want to produce.

    I'd imagine for 'real' investors, this fledgling company is a dream come true.

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  • silentbob 9 Aug 2012 08:48:49 29,026 posts
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    Touching on the retro-fitting aspect we've talked a bit about, an interesting snippet:

    It’s important to get games that people know and love. Something they may already have on their Steam account. Luckey gave an example of the perfect game: Fallout 3 with new content and Rift support. That’s the sort of thing that will get people’s attention.

    What about Skyrim support? “There’s already a community driver. It’s not a lot of work,” Luckey said with a wave of his hand.

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  • Dirtbox 9 Aug 2012 08:54:44 79,170 posts
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    Christ, you sound like a fundie.

    Give it a rest, will ya?

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  • silentbob 9 Aug 2012 08:55:43 29,026 posts
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    In short, no!

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  • smoothpete 9 Aug 2012 08:57:04 31,812 posts
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    You're putting me right off this thing with your endless enthusiasm.
  • silentbob 9 Aug 2012 09:01:54 29,026 posts
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    I admit, I'm obsessed. But if there's frequent updates and the majority is positive, it's because there's a lot going on right now and a lot of it is positive.

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  • smoothpete 9 Aug 2012 09:04:14 31,812 posts
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    You've gone a bit ecosse. We're about a week away from having to stage a full intervention
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