The **Official** Tour de France 2012 Thread Page 3

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  • Dougs 9 Jul 2012 23:12:56 69,070 posts
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    That was so awesome. Good on him
  • Trafford 9 Jul 2012 23:32:35 5,931 posts
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    elstoof wrote:
    On the other hand he can also offer gems of wisdom like his theory that tennis is a load of old shit because it a match only lasts an hour and a half.

    A lot of the time I wish he'd keep schtum and let the cycling do the talking, it's what he's best at. I bet he wishes he said nothing about Millar being at the Olympics now, because his backtracking on the subject was a bit cringey.
    Millar gave him a slating in his autobiography I hear.
    Still, Wiggo is a great role model for scrawny ginger blokes everywhere, just needs to watch his tongue, like we all do.
  • Vortex808 10 Jul 2012 07:51:47 7,470 posts
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    Millar mostly claimed Wiggins was a selfish, arrogant mercenary so & so who wasn't interested in being part of the team. He certainly didn't seem to like having him in Garmin.

    I quite enjoyed his book, he came across pretty well from it.
  • grey_matters 11 Jul 2012 12:05:08 3,860 posts
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    Big day today and it is finally on local TV now that Wimbledon is finished.

    Any thoughts on Froome? I don't follow cycling as much as some of you but he seems to have come from nearly nowhere to be a Grand Tour challenger in the last Vuelta and now again in the TdF in a very short space of time. Also, SKY appointing Gert Leinders to the medical staff isn't exactly helping me think happy thoughts. I'm pretty sure Wiggins himself said something about doctors like him (and he was talking specifically about Leinders) being banned from cycling and any teams that use those kind of doctors should also be banned.

    It may just be a case of the rest of the field coming backwards a bit due to better doping controls and the likes of Schleck and Contador being out (as well as a few disastrous crashes for other GC challengers) but it doesn't feel quite right for Froome to be destroying Cancellara and nearly everybody else on a TT (albeit a hilly one) with no real form in the discipline up until last year.

    Shenanigans?

    Edited by grey_matters at 12:05:47 11-07-2012

    Edited by grey_matters at 12:06:46 11-07-2012
  • Deleted user 11 July 2012 12:26:52
    It is a big today, look forward to watching it whilst working. (means i get no work done :) ).

    As for the doping questions, bit frustrated by it really, some of it jealously, some of it is trolling, other side of it is just plain ignorance. I'm probably being ignorant here, but until any real allegations are put forward, i'm just trying to ignore these petulant claims.

    Its frustrating, we do well at something, and instantly the anti brit brigade come out with US postal PART 2.

    Wiggo as been there or there abouts for a few years now, and froomy come up through the ranks, his had top 10 young riders results up to now.

    It does seem odd to see him smash cancellara like that, but on the side of it, you had nibali who put in a great ride to beat people like kloden and tony martin.

    Its easy for people to call out, but its easy to believe this, not even rumours just certain fans perceptions and get too involved in it. Then you get the nut job conspircaries.

    Wiggins has got a lot riding on it, his based his career on calling out the drug cheats. Him and Cadel are quite unified in that approach. I couldn't see him putting his career on the line like that. and thus if any other members of his team were doing it, it would ruin his image as well.
  • Salaman 11 Jul 2012 12:30:19 19,461 posts
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    Not sure. Froome seems to come out of nowhere when you watch the major competitions but the Belgian commentators and his fellow cyclist which they've been speaking to, who follow the riders the whole season, also on less/non televised races seem to not be particularly surprised.

    Fair comment from Cancellara yesterday when asked about Sky's dominance:
    "They've been working towards this for years. They have painstaking attention to detail. They're incredibly professional. When they weren't winning anything people said 'look at all that money and for what? There's no results', now they're getting results and people are saying 'Look at their results, must be fishy!'.
    You can't win. They work hard for it, they train hard. I don't feel there's anything out of the ordinairy."


    I give them the benefit of the doubt.

    I'm curious what's going to happen now for Sky. If I was a betting man I'd stick a fiver on Froome to win overall.
    He's going to work his as off for Bradley, even if it means he gets second place in a tour he could just as easily win. But if Wiggins has an off day, a crash, a flat tyre at a very bed moment ... Froome is in perfect position to still bring home the yellow for Sky.

    It'll be interesting to see what happens today. So many riders have been knocked back in the overall rankings that they will have to attack. So rather than a snoozefest of recent years, with everyone eyeing everyone up and the overall leader controlling the pace and the pack, there's likely to be some fireworks today.

    I'm 100% sure Jurgen Vandenbroek will attack if he can. Cadel will probably try if he sees a good opportunity but I think he'll be more cautious about picking his moment.

    Imagine Froome chases one of these attackers and ends up out in front with them in a breakaway. It'll be interesting to see what Sky decide to do then.

    Can't wait to go home and watch the stage! Should be good!
  • Deleted user 11 July 2012 12:35:30
    aye i think VDB and rolland will go for it today as well, the likes of mollema , gadret etc might go with them. should be fun.!
  • elstoof 11 Jul 2012 12:41:12 8,091 posts
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    I doubt there's any shenanigans personally. He's always been a solid climber and TT rider, second to Martin in that vuelta TT last year and placed in the 30's of the Giro GC. He's 27 now, the age when cyclists really click physically and I'm sure he's benefitted from the intense training Sky focus on more than a lot of teams. Those good results last year must have given him the confidence to really grow as well. For me, I'd say he's a more complete rider than Wiggins, his 4th place was helped by the course suiting him much like this years does so it's going to be great watching to see how he can cope with the attacks and if he can dig deep on the climbs.

    When it comes to hiring doctors you don't have to have a very large net to catch one with a dodgy past when you look at all the stuff that was going on a few years ago and Wiggins likes to get all mouthy about who does and who doesn't fit in with his vision.
  • grey_matters 11 Jul 2012 12:46:07 3,860 posts
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    Fair enough regarding other riders opinion on Froome. It does seem that his W/kg has been just under 6 so it is possible that all is above board (and I certainly hope so). The rise from nowhere to somewhere is always something to look at though, especially in this sport.
  • Deleted user 11 July 2012 13:22:13
    in a way grey you are right -with all the yellow jersery drug taking, i guess people have a right to ask the questions. Anyway fingers crossed it is all clean :)

    also froome was pratically non existant for two years, he was struck down by that illness. remarkable that sky stuck with him.

    there must be drugs! cav is helping pace make on the climb!

    Edited by joelstinton at 13:22:30 11-07-2012

    Edited by joelstinton at 13:24:35 11-07-2012
  • grey_matters 11 Jul 2012 13:27:14 3,860 posts
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    joelstinton wrote:
    in a way grey you are right -with all the yellow jersery drug taking, i guess people have a right to ask the questions. Anyway fingers crossed it is all clean :)

    also froome was pratically non existant for two years, he was struck down by that illness. remarkable that sky stuck with him.
    It is. And then came last year's Vuelta. Anyway, we'll assume innocence for now.

    They've just hit the first climb at a very high tempo. Tomorrow is going to be a very tough day after this one. I'm expecting a downhill attack from Nibali at some point today, and hopefully Roche can hang on and not lose too much time. He's looked blitzed at the finish line on the last couple of stages.
  • gang_of_bitches 11 Jul 2012 13:29:35 5,643 posts
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    I'm sure it's not unbeatable, but I think the kind of biometric passport the riders have now is a great idea. You'd really have to be taking the same drugs at the same levels constantly to get away with much.
  • Salaman 11 Jul 2012 13:33:42 19,461 posts
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    Just had a glance at how it's going.

    Massive 25 person group with a 6'30" lead.
    Includes some decent names.
    Voigt, Casar, Voeckler, Millar, Zabriskie, Sanchez, ...
    11 of the 25 have won one or more TdF stages in the past (21 stages between them in total).
    Cadel has two BMC team mates out front, which puts him in a comfy postion. No Lotto Belisols sadly. :-/
  • grey_matters 11 Jul 2012 13:33:51 3,860 posts
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    gang_of_bitches wrote:
    I'm sure it's not unbeatable, but I think the kind of biometric passport the riders have now is a great idea. You'd really have to be taking the same drugs at the same levels constantly to get away with much.
    Which isn't that hard to do surely. Especially when you've hired a doctor that specialises in blood plasma and who has previous links to doping.

    Sorry.

    I am liking the Tour, I just can't switch the doubt off too easily.
  • gang_of_bitches 11 Jul 2012 13:45:15 5,643 posts
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    grey_matters wrote:
    gang_of_bitches wrote:
    I'm sure it's not unbeatable, but I think the kind of biometric passport the riders have now is a great idea. You'd really have to be taking the same drugs at the same levels constantly to get away with much.
    Which isn't that hard to do surely. Especially when you've hired a doctor that specialises in blood plasma and who has previous links to doping.

    Sorry.

    I am liking the Tour, I just can't switch the doubt off too easily.
    I completely understand. I stopped watching cycling altogether for about 5 years when the whole doping scandal first hit, but I do think major steps have been taken to clean things up. I would be shocked if there weren't still riders involved with drugs, but I don't think it's on the team sanctioned scale it was in the past. I'd be really gutted if any major names, particularly the Brits were found to have cheated, the success has had a really positive influence for us regular cyclists.
  • grey_matters 11 Jul 2012 13:56:14 3,860 posts
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    gang_of_bitches wrote:
    grey_matters wrote:
    gang_of_bitches wrote:
    I'm sure it's not unbeatable, but I think the kind of biometric passport the riders have now is a great idea. You'd really have to be taking the same drugs at the same levels constantly to get away with much.
    Which isn't that hard to do surely. Especially when you've hired a doctor that specialises in blood plasma and who has previous links to doping.

    Sorry.

    I am liking the Tour, I just can't switch the doubt off too easily.
    I completely understand. I stopped watching cycling altogether for about 5 years when the whole doping scandal first hit, but I do think major steps have been taken to clean things up. I would be shocked if there weren't still riders involved with drugs, but I don't think it's on the team sanctioned scale it was in the past. I'd be really gutted if any major names, particularly the Brits were found to have cheated, the success has had a really positive influence for us regular cyclists.
    Me too. Got back into it a bit recently when people started accepting that Armstrong was likely to be on something and the UCI finally making stronger noises (largely due to WADA) about being anti-drugs, and most importantly, cyclists such as Wiggins and Evans being very vocal about the subject whereas the law of Omerta ruled beforehand. It is still fairly riddled I'd say, but probably to a far lesser extent and to far lower levels due to the science and systems getting better. They are certainly going slower now than at most points in the last 15 years. It doesn't detract from the spectacle though, the battles and tactics, and the clash of styles/abilities is always what made this thing great for me.
  • grey_matters 11 Jul 2012 14:41:37 3,860 posts
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    Great recovery from the puncture from Voeckler. Now he's pushing to keep the pace high. That'll do, Tommy, that'll do.
  • Deleted user 11 July 2012 15:08:49
    riders should be allowed to carry macetes with them for use on those dickheads that run alongside the riders. really gets on my tits.
  • gang_of_bitches 11 Jul 2012 15:13:23 5,643 posts
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    @joelstinton

    Defo. Fair enough, get involved, cheer, enjoy it, but don't force riders who have been climbing for 15kms to go round you or through your flag or whatever shit you're waving.
  • Salaman 11 Jul 2012 15:21:45 19,461 posts
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    I've turned off the tickler for now. Gonna go hoem and enjoy it unspoilered. Unless I forget to turn off the radio when the news comes on again.

    Yeah the fans that get too close are always risky. Louise Leon Sanchez smacked one in the head on Sunday that was getting on his tits.:-)
  • grey_matters 11 Jul 2012 15:22:56 3,860 posts
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    Would it be so hard for the motorbike riders to club a few of them? A few few broken skulls would learn 'em.
  • Salaman 11 Jul 2012 15:28:54 19,461 posts
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    Putting two bikes side by side in front of the riders instead of just the one camera bike would help. The bike doesn't clear all that much space. 2 would.
  • grey_matters 11 Jul 2012 15:31:53 3,860 posts
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    Has anyone played any of the Pro Cycling Manager games? Strangely tempted by the new one.
  • gang_of_bitches 11 Jul 2012 15:38:13 5,643 posts
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    I hadn't even heard of it! Given how shit my fantasy team is I think I'll give it a miss. If it gets down to 15 I might give it a spin just for fun.
  • Salaman 11 Jul 2012 15:41:13 19,461 posts
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    I saw it on steam the other day. I assume them to be shit, so I avoided it. I might be wrong of course.
  • grey_matters 11 Jul 2012 15:42:44 3,860 posts
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    @gob

    :)

    Think I might take the plunge now or I'll forget about it. I seem to prefer these long-lasting tactical/strategy games these days anyway.

    Edited by grey_matters at 15:43:13 11-07-2012
  • gang_of_bitches 11 Jul 2012 15:52:29 5,643 posts
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    @grey_matters

    Me too, but I've always got a game of Football Manager and Rome Total War on the go, so unless it's absolutely great, there's no real need for another.
  • grey_matters 11 Jul 2012 15:58:28 3,860 posts
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    Looks like Voight is having a great ride today, he's catching the leaders now.

    Edit: Wow, he did it. On a solo ride.

    Edited by grey_matters at 16:01:31 11-07-2012
  • Vortex808 11 Jul 2012 20:34:56 7,470 posts
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    Well done Voeckler. One of my favourite cyclists.
  • Salaman 11 Jul 2012 23:05:07 19,461 posts
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    I really hope Voigt gets himself a stage this Tour. He's 41 ffs, look at him go.
    He must reckon "it's my last one, I'm going all out every day".

    His relentless work alone at the start of the break sunday, again today, to catch the leaders. Great chap.
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