Norway seeking to ban circumcision Page 4

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  • localnotail 18 Jun 2012 13:41:34 23,093 posts
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    @dominalien :rolleyes: :-P It would still have been a drag (man) as he was moved about.

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  • elstoof 18 Jun 2012 13:56:00 7,353 posts
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    mowgli wrote:
    .... Had it done when I was about 17/18, and it felt much better after. On topic, eh, I don't actually know why they do it in the Jewish faith so I'm not going to start throwing around opinions.
    Better in what way?

    I ask out of curiosity, because generally my cock already feels great for everybody involved and I wonder how it can be improved on.

    Edited by elstoof at 13:59:52 18-06-2012
  • Dangerous_Dan 18 Jun 2012 13:58:22 2,380 posts
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    @kalel - I have read up on that argument about circumcision reducing the HIV rate. I'm not convinced though.

    -Why is there a higher HIV rate in the US than in Europe although circumcision is much more common over there? Are they that much more careless?

    -There are some countries in that study, in africa, where there was a higher HIV rate in circumcised male than in non circumcised (6 countries).

    -Did they acount for different customs? Maybe in some countries being circumcised goes hand in hand with being usually a member of a certain religion which is much more strict on having several sexual partners.

    Anyway interesting point about the HIV, didn't know that argument.
  • Deleted user 18 June 2012 13:59:36
    Is mowgli posting about circumcision on a gaming forum whilst on his honeymoon?
  • elstoof 18 Jun 2012 14:00:45 7,353 posts
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    Shame he didn't go to Thailand after all, could get a reversal done there at a good price.
  • Deckard1 18 Jun 2012 14:01:21 27,983 posts
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    warlockuk wrote:
    Do the Jews still suck the baby's cock after circumcision? Remember that rabbi who gave kids herpes? :D
    The more I hear about Judaism the more I think its a religion I could really get behind. What with the cool hats and the free blowjobs and such.
  • Deleted user 18 June 2012 14:01:24
    Dangerous_Dan wrote:
    @kalel - I have read up on that argument about circumcision reducing the HIV rate. I'm not convinced though.

    -Why is there a higher HIV rate in the US than in Europe although circumcision is much more common over there? Are they that much more careless?

    -There are some countries in that study, in africa, where there was a higher HIV rate in circumcised male than in non circumcised (6 countries).

    -Did they acount for different customs? Maybe in some countries being circumcised goes hand in hand with being usually a member of a certain religion which is much more strict on having several sexual partners.

    Anyway interesting point about the HIV, didn't know that argument.
    Lexx would say that your post makes it sound like HIV is the fault of black people.
  • kalel 18 Jun 2012 14:02:25 87,687 posts
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    1Dgaf wrote:
    Surely the 'medical evidence' for religious reasons would have been reasonably recent - as would have been sterile, or even safe, operating conditions.

    I imagine for a long, long time people were getting infections and falling ill. Not very health concious at all.
    The only reason it became traditional was due to the health benefits. If it hadn't been preferable for these reasons, they wouldn't have done it, and it wouldn't have become a tradition. The fact is at birth it is an extremely minor operation. Very little blood indeed and heals very quickly. It's not like walking around with a gaping wound.

    For me that's the only real argument for doing it at birth. It's a very minor procedure for babies, whereas it's a serious and painful operation later in life. If it's going to be necessary for someone to have it at some stage in life for medical reasons (of which there are several) then it's absolutely preferable to have it as a baby. So I suppose by that same logic for religious Jews, it makes more sense to have their children circumcised at birth.

    But again, I personally feel it's something that should only be done with the consent of the child. It's a bit ridiculous to compare it with female circumcision as that's a very brutal example of body mutilation, it's more akin to a piercing or something. But I still feel anything like that should be the child's choice, although I do find it very hard to be massively damning of anyone that does make that decision.
  • kalel 18 Jun 2012 14:10:08 87,687 posts
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    Dangerous_Dan wrote:
    @kalel - I have read up on that argument about circumcision reducing the HIV rate. I'm not convinced though.

    -Why is there a higher HIV rate in the US than in Europe although circumcision is much more common over there? Are they that much more careless?

    -There are some countries in that study, in africa, where there was a higher HIV rate in circumcised male than in non circumcised (6 countries).

    -Did they acount for different customs? Maybe in some countries being circumcised goes hand in hand with being usually a member of a certain religion which is much more strict on having several sexual partners.

    Anyway interesting point about the HIV, didn't know that argument.
    The above facts you quote are hugely open to interpretation, and there are obviously myriad reasons why HIV rates vary from reagion to region. However, a theory that is hard to argue is that the foreskin is very weak and by far the most likely part of the penis to break and bleed during sex (especially anal). Therefore, getting rid of it decreases the likelihood of getting HIV.

    Edited by kalel at 14:10:36 18-06-2012
  • Deckard1 18 Jun 2012 14:13:18 27,983 posts
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    Its getting pretty hot in here now.
  • Dangerous_Dan 18 Jun 2012 14:16:15 2,380 posts
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    @Aargh. Lexx the dark zone. I didn't want to convey that, what I did want to convey is that it's the fault of the people who eat ice cream.
    But I'm not good at conveying things.
  • dominalien 18 Jun 2012 14:22:52 6,860 posts
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    1Dgaf wrote:
    Surely the 'medical evidence' for religious reasons would have been reasonably recent - as would have been sterile, or even safe, operating conditions.

    I imagine for a long, long time people were getting infections and falling ill. Not very health concious at all.
    Ignaz Semmelweis:

    "Despite various publications of results where hand-washing reduced mortality to below 1%, Semmelweis's observations conflicted with the established scientific and medical opinions of the time and his ideas were rejected by the medical community. Some doctors were offended at the suggestion that they should wash their hands and Semmelweis could offer no acceptable scientific explanation for his findings. Semmelweis's practice earned widespread acceptance only years after his death, when Louis Pasteur confirmed the germ theory and Joseph Lister practised and operated, using hygienic methods, with great success. In 1865, Semmelweis was committed to an asylum, where he died, ironically, of septicemia at age 47."

    People, as a group, are fucking stupid.

    PSN: DonOsito

  • mrpon 18 Jun 2012 14:28:27 28,920 posts
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    I fancy some onion rings.

    Give yourself £5 or ½ gig, you're worth it.

  • Dangerous_Dan 18 Jun 2012 14:32:23 2,380 posts
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    @kalel -
    Actually the guys who made the study argue that the missing foreskin makes the glans more sturdy over time and thus it's less likely to get injured during sex.
    That's speculation, which is good for science but needs to be validated with further prove.

    But a counter argument is why is the rate of HIV infections reverse in some countries? What's the explanation for that? Can I argue that a dry glans is more likely to get injured, even without sex? What about that argument?

    You get a statistical result and then the scientist finds arguments and theories to support it. Further research in this medical area would be helpful with that but I'm questioning the validity of their statistics.

    They may have it right, they may not, as I have said, I am personally not convinced and therefore would be cautious about mass circumcision.
    That's my thought.
  • sport 18 Jun 2012 14:38:23 12,731 posts
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    Stay safe, lube up.
  • Deckard1 18 Jun 2012 14:39:47 27,983 posts
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    Nobody wants a dry glans.
  • sport 18 Jun 2012 14:41:19 12,731 posts
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    What Mario isn't telling you...
  • boo 18 Jun 2012 14:56:41 11,783 posts
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    I'm baffled as to why it's done for religious reasons.
    Surely that's the equivalant of saying 'Hey God! You got the design for male humans wrong, so we're just going to correct it by cutting this bit off.'

    Just Another Lego Blog

  • Deleted user 18 June 2012 14:59:03
    boo wrote:
    I'm baffled as to why it's done for religious reasons.
    Surely that's the equivalant of saying 'Hey God! You got the design for male humans wrong, so we're just going to correct it by cutting this bit off.'
    So they're claiming it's a manufacturing fault, like the lines you get round injection-moulded plastic? ;-)
  • Fatiguez 18 Jun 2012 15:01:24 8,738 posts
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    mowgli wrote:
    .... Had it done when I was about 17/18
    Your foreskin was too tight? So I guess all your heads are too big.

    Anyway being circumcised is great, it makes my willy look much better.
  • Load_2.0 18 Jun 2012 15:06:23 19,279 posts
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    Dangerous_Dan wrote:
    @Aargh. Lexx the dark zone.
    He won't like that!
  • elstoof 18 Jun 2012 15:10:39 7,353 posts
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    mrpon wrote:
    I fancy some onion rings.
    Today's special is calamari.
  • Deckard1 18 Jun 2012 15:15:14 27,983 posts
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    What do they do with them anyways? Seems a bit... I dunno... wrong just to toss them in the bin. I think I'd get mine cremated.
  • sport 18 Jun 2012 15:18:36 12,731 posts
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    Didn't Dolph Lundgren wear a necklace of foreskins in Universal Soldier?
  • Load_2.0 18 Jun 2012 15:20:03 19,279 posts
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    I would wear mine like a ring.
  • Deckard1 18 Jun 2012 15:21:28 27,983 posts
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    You could make a snood out of mine.

    Edited by Deckard1 at 15:26:04 18-06-2012
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 18 Jun 2012 15:22:31 38,209 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    What do they do with them anyways? Seems a bit... I dunno... wrong just to toss them in the bin. I think I'd get mine cremated.
    Have it framed and hung above the mantlepiece. Good talking point for visitors.

    Heh, "hung".

    Follow me on Twitter: @MrTom
    Voted by the community "Best mod" 2011, 2012 and 2013.

  • mrpon 18 Jun 2012 15:25:40 28,920 posts
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    Deckard1 wrote:
    You could make snood out of mine.
    Your boyfriend loves it.

    Give yourself £5 or ½ gig, you're worth it.

  • sport 18 Jun 2012 15:26:13 12,731 posts
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    DDevil wrote:
    Deckard1 wrote:
    What do they do with them anyways? Seems a bit... I dunno... wrong just to toss them in the bin. I think I'd get mine cremated.
    Have it framed and hung above the mantlepiece. Good talking point for visitors.

    Heh, "hung".
    Right next to the placenta tapestry.
  • Chopsen 18 Jun 2012 15:28:14 15,995 posts
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    Dangerous_Dan wrote:
    @kalel -
    Actually the guys who made the study argue that the missing foreskin makes the glans more sturdy over time and thus it's less likely to get injured during sex.
    That's speculation, which is good for science but needs to be validated with further prove.

    But a counter argument is why is the rate of HIV infections reverse in some countries? What's the explanation for that? Can I argue that a dry glans is more likely to get injured, even without sex? What about that argument?

    You get a statistical result and then the scientist finds arguments and theories to support it. Further research in this medical area would be helpful with that but I'm questioning the validity of their statistics.

    They may have it right, they may not, as I have said, I am personally not convinced and therefore would be cautious about mass circumcision.
    That's my thought.
    Not all studies are created equal, and some are of better quality than others. The consensus, iirc, is that overall there does seem to be some protection against HIV from being circumcised. I'm not totally up with the evidence though.

    The issue I have with the idea is that the effect is really only relative. There are still significant risks from transmitting HIV from sexual intercourse even if you are circumcised. Condoms are still the most reliable way of preventing transmission. I am concerned that people would be falsely reassured by circumcision and be a bit blasé about the risks, which may actually lead to an *increased* transmission rate in the longer term.
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