Will Gay Marriage finally cause the separation of Church and State? Page 3

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  • w00t 12 Jun 2012 17:33:22 11,049 posts
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    One thing that would happen with separation of church and state is the removal of the bishops from the House of Lords.

    Only two countries in the world have unelected religious members involved in their parliaments. Iran and Britain.

    The day charity died - NEVER FORGET

    (the mic was OK in the end)

  • spamdangled 12 Jun 2012 17:34:48 27,269 posts
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    I wouldn't count on that - it's been pretty clear this year that there is very little appetite for reform of the HOL.

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  • kalel 12 Jun 2012 17:35:32 86,392 posts
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    EyeLand wrote:
    Because the main religious community in this country interprets Christianity as having the Old Testament as a fairly important cornerstone?
    Although interestingly the bit in Leviticus where it says you shouldn't like with another man, is also the same section where it says you mustn't eat pork (hence why Jews don't), and yet they conveniently ignore that bit, along with several other things that are expressly forbidden.
  • spamdangled 12 Jun 2012 17:40:11 27,269 posts
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    Leviticus is great when you want to argue with religious people who insist that the bible and morality go hand in hand.

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  • spamdangled 12 Jun 2012 17:40:43 27,269 posts
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    Billy_Sastard wrote:
    Billy_Sastard wrote:
    Can I stick my pee pee in your poo hole?
    I feel this is an important question in this thread best answered by Aargh.
    As long as it comes with pics.

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  • Khanivor 12 Jun 2012 17:46:35 40,399 posts
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    EyeLand wrote:
    Because the main religious community in this country interprets Christianity as having the Old Testament as a fairly important
    cornerstone? I don't personally care and would let anyone marry, but it's just plain rude fighting an institution on it's key beliefs, and unrealistic. Get over, that's how they feel. Start you're own church if you feel that deeply.
    I thought the CoE wasn't Catholic? ;)

    The OT is like the prequel but the NT is the new Covenant and supersedes anything that came before. That's what Jesus was put on Earth for, to bring mankind the Good News. Or OS 2.0, if you will.

    Again, the CoE has women priests. The case against women in the priesthood has more Biblical ammunition than against gay marriage. There's little religious basis for the ban on gay marriage other than a few hundred years of bigotry based on very old cultural mores.

    IIRC gays aren't mentioned in the NT once. Some of the disciples do have a thing about women though. Makes ya wonder.
  • cianchristopher 12 Jun 2012 17:49:50 6,360 posts
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    Jesus was indeed curiously quiet on the whole gay thing.

    Bi-curiously quiet, if you ask me.
  • spamdangled 12 Jun 2012 17:55:55 27,269 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:

    IIRC gays aren't mentioned in the NT once. Some of the disciples do have a thing about women though. Makes ya wonder.
    You're right. Homosexuality isn't mentioned once in the NT (and is only mentioned in the OT explicitly in one heavily-contested sentence, when it comes to right and wrong). Christianity is based on the NT. The OT is irrelevant.

    Another interesting thing is the possible origins of the word "fornication". There is a persuasive school of thought that says the word is a synonym for prostitution - i.e, sex that is paid for, rather than sex itself. So any reference to fornication in the bible is actually referring to prostitution, not the act of sex itself.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 17:59:08 12-06-2012

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  • kalel 12 Jun 2012 17:56:28 86,392 posts
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    I think this whole religious thing is a red herring. The bigger and more relevant issue is that gays do not get equality in civil unions outside the church. I really can not fathom how a modern and progressive nation can justify that. It is inequality on a deeply archaic level. It's shocking.

    And yes, I know it's to appease the church so it's all related, but that's bullshit really.
  • spamdangled 12 Jun 2012 18:10:17 27,269 posts
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    I've been engaged to my partner for four years now. We were going to get a civil partnership - We looked at venues, I went so far as to write my vows and stuff - but then they started saying how full marriage would be legalised. So we put it off, because a proper marriage, to us, is preferable to some half-hearted attempt at equality (however well intentioned it was originally intended to be).

    What we want is to be able to live together and be able to have our commitment to each other recognised on equal terms to any other couple. Not to have to tick a different box saying we are "civil partners" instead of "married", which would just feel like we are considered a second-rate couple, an afterthought or petty concession to equal rights.

    Marriage is about two people who love each other and want to commit their lives to each other. It is not about procreation (plenty of people have kids before marrying each other, plenty of people marry without having kids). It is not about religion (more and more marriages are conducted as civil ceremonies).
    It's about equality, about feeling as though we are on par with any other loving couple rather than not being (legally) allowed to call each other husband and husband just because of some stupid idiots in even more stupid clothing have decided they have some sort of monopoly on morality and a tradition that long predates their little book.

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  • mal 12 Jun 2012 18:18:49 22,339 posts
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    I think they should just rename both civil partnerships and marriages officially as 'dos'. Thereby you can have a registry office do or a church do. Might lead to the slight awkward question of 'so, when did you two get done then?' though.

    In response to the thread title, I don't see why it should. The point of conjunction is the Queen, as both head of the church and ceding power to the two houses of parliament. I'd personally get rid of the Bishops and wotnot in the house of Lords, but I'm honestly not too bothered about those.

    Edited by mal at 18:21:35 12-06-2012

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • grey_matters 12 Jun 2012 18:20:22 3,676 posts
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    :)
  • StarchildHypocrethes 12 Jun 2012 18:25:21 25,425 posts
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    We need a Youtube video in here, stat!
  • spamdangled 12 Jun 2012 18:28:54 27,269 posts
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    Madgod_Dc wrote:
    darkmorgado wrote:
    This is what is being suggested today, as the COE continues to prove how irrelevant it is.

    Should the COE continue to be the officially recognised religion of the state? What benefits does it bring?

    Should it just divorce itself from the state completely?
    no link. what are you basing this nonsense on?
    BBC coverage.

    A bit more reliable than stating 9/11 was an inside job based on youtube videos.

    Edited by darkmorgado at 18:29:39 12-06-2012

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  • spamdangled 12 Jun 2012 18:47:43 27,269 posts
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    Watch the bloody news.

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  • spamdangled 12 Jun 2012 18:51:23 27,269 posts
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    Madgod_Dc wrote:
    i link to interesting documentaries
    Sarcasm?

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  • StarchildHypocrethes 12 Jun 2012 18:52:03 25,425 posts
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    The news has The Man's fingerprints all over it though.

    Youtube is the only truly free source left to help us educate the world about the TRUTH.
  • mal 12 Jun 2012 18:56:11 22,339 posts
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    Damn, I should have realised this was an EG version of a HYS post.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • cheeky_prawnking 12 Jun 2012 19:11:48 4,274 posts
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    @Madgod_Dc Do you mean like stonewall?
  • Khanivor 12 Jun 2012 19:14:05 40,399 posts
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    @Madgod_Dc - No likey the gay stories, don't click on the fucking thread.

    THIS would have been the right time for ecosse to post his gay porn picture.
  • cheeky_prawnking 12 Jun 2012 19:24:37 4,274 posts
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    Stonewall
  • cheeky_prawnking 12 Jun 2012 19:24:50 4,274 posts
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    Post deleted
  • Nanocrystal 12 Jun 2012 19:31:44 992 posts
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    Madgod_Dc wrote:
    just because you do not find them interesting, doesn't mean others share you disdain or contempt. tbh i have no real interest in following gay affairs, equally, i don't like the issue of gays being thrust in my face at every opportunity. isn't there a gay group or something you could post this stuff in?
    Homophobes use this expression so often, don't they? Definitely some sexual self-repression going on...
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