Half-Life 3 Page 9

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  • Deleted user 19 March 2013 12:30:46
    A cross between the interaction with people and scripting of HL with the level of freedom of something like Stalker would be good for me. A really clearly defined linear story but where you can wander off a bit if you want (not skyrim wandering off) but with good AI and people.
  • Deleted user 19 March 2013 12:32:40
    Fine, but I still don't see how going hub/sandbox/open world has anything to do with any of that, apart from perhaps a couple of the final points, but these could still be addressed without changing the type of game it is at heart.

    FWIW I also think you've gone a bit OTT with the criticism but I not going to argue with your opinion.
  • Dirtbox 19 Mar 2013 12:38:29 79,217 posts
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    I'm not saying anything about a sandbox, I'm just saying that a little freedom in how you can go about achieving a goal won't go amiss. Stalker was completely linear, but allowed an expansive amount of freedom. It's atmosphere blows HL2's away as well. Borderlands has a larger amount of freedom. There are more ways to design a game than actively pushing the player down a thin, straight line.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 12:42:49 19-03-2013

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  • nickthegun 19 Mar 2013 12:41:49 61,349 posts
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    There are but its done so well in Half Life, I cant see the point in changing it.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Deleted user 19 March 2013 12:42:17
    OK, not sandbox then, but still open world/hub, which Stalker was (to an extent).

    And yes, I again appreciate the value in those games, but I think there's also value in a totally linear game. They're different. And in the same way I didn't want Tomb Raider to become more like Unchartered (despite liking Unchartered), I don't want Half Life becoming more like Stalker.
  • Dirtbox 19 Mar 2013 12:45:52 79,217 posts
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    Wait a second, I thought I was defending this, but apparently I'm the only one who knows about it.

    As you were.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 12:46:54 19-03-2013

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  • Mola_Ram 19 Mar 2013 12:55:55 8,335 posts
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    I think the best illustration of where HL2 felt too scripted and linear for me was in one bit where you had to infiltrate some place without setting off an alarm. I remember getting to a certain point, the alarm going off, and me going "aw fuck, one of the cameras must have seen me". So I reloaded and tried again, and again, until eventually I realised that the alarm was going to go off no matter what. It was just a scripted event.

    And I mostly agree with Dirtbox about the whole thing. But I don't necessarily mind a rollercoaster game, and don't necessarily mind being a puppet. I'd just prefer it if I couldn't see the strings too often.

    (That being said though, I have very much enjoyed other linear rollercoaster games. Like Bulletstorm.)

    So I dunno. I wouldn't want Half Life to become something other than Half Life, but I reckon it might benefit from opening up a bit. Or maybe it would benefit from having a rollercoaster ride that's a little more exciting, or from better AI, etc.
  • Dirtbox 19 Mar 2013 13:02:12 79,217 posts
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    The problem for me is you have no choice whatsoever.

    Actually that's not entirely true, the only time I really had fun with the game was when I didn't kill anything, just ran past all the soldiers and whatever, only killing the things that progressed the game, which as it goes number in the half dozen.

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  • Mola_Ram 19 Mar 2013 13:05:48 8,335 posts
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    I had heaps of fun in the multiplayer. Nothing quite like killing someone with a toilet.
  • Dirtbox 19 Mar 2013 13:07:00 79,217 posts
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    I loved HLDM, but HL2's multiplayer was a non-starter for me thanks to the awful gunplay.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 13:07:25 19-03-2013

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  • Mola_Ram 19 Mar 2013 13:08:36 8,335 posts
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    Heh, I just ran around braining people with a crowbar. Actually won a few games that way.
  • bunglebonce 19 Mar 2013 13:14:24 2,228 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:

    Stalker... It's atmosphere blows HL2's away as well.
    That's an entirely subjective point of view and one which I don't agree with (not that I don't think Stalker's great). The themes and pathos implied from the surroundings struck me like no other computer game before or after.


    Mola_Ram wrote:
    I think the best illustration of where HL2 felt too scripted and linear for me was in one bit where you had to infiltrate some place without setting off an alarm. I remember getting to a certain point, the alarm going off, and me going "aw fuck, one of the cameras must have seen me". So I reloaded and tried again, and again, until eventually I realised that the alarm was going to go off no matter what. It was just a scripted event.
    I am struggling to remember where that would have been. The prison?

    Edited by bunglebonce at 13:15:31 19-03-2013

    PSN ID: erniewhatbert

  • Mola_Ram 19 Mar 2013 13:19:52 8,335 posts
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    I'm a bit fuzzy about it (I remember the alarm thing though). It was definitely towards the end. Outdoors. You were sneaking into some sort of building, and there were those walker things around.

    Pretty sure it was after the prison.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 13:20:20 19-03-2013
  • Dirtbox 19 Mar 2013 13:19:56 79,217 posts
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    Stalker was freaky and actually terrifying at certain points, HL2 was creepy at best. Opinion perhaps, but not one many people can argue against.

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  • Deleted user 19 March 2013 13:25:49
    Dirtbox wrote:
    The problem for me is you have no choice whatsoever.
    Surely this is an issue in a huge amount of games? Non-linearity is still a fairly recent event in gaming, and at best it's a veneer anyway. True choice in games is extremely unusual.

    And anyway, fine, if you don't like linearity then that's all good. But then maybe don't play linear games. If you didn't like stealth games would you feel they should all become run and gun games, or would you just accept that there's a certain type of game that isn't your preference.
  • Dirtbox 19 Mar 2013 13:29:23 79,217 posts
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    It's not linearity I have a problem with, it's how strictly you're directed.

    A case in point, the commentary for portal 2 has loads of nuggets of info about how valve go about directing the player, whether subtle or obvious and it removes any feeling you had of your actually playing the game and instead just following their queues on what to do to progress. It's still a good game that I enjoyed, but I must admit that about 40% of the time I was trying to break away from their confined solutions.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 13:34:11 19-03-2013

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  • Widge Moderator 19 Mar 2013 13:32:08 13,746 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:

    TIt basically wasn't a game, it was a story that required minimal interaction and I might as well have just watched a film.
    There wasn't much of a story to watch even. Just a succession of people telling you to go in another direction so the scenery could change. Like a strange crossbreed between Outrun and a cross country journey from Manchester to Kings Lynn told via the medium of first person shooter.

    Totally agree that Half Life would need to be something radically different nowadays, rather than even vaguely considering trying to appease those wanting to relive the original repeatedly.

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  • Deleted user 19 March 2013 13:38:01
    Dirtbox wrote:
    It's not linearity I have a problem with, it's how strictly you're directed.

    A case in point, the commentary for portal 2 has loads of nuggets of info about how valve go about directing the player, whether subtle or obvious and it removes any feeling you had of your actually playing the game and instead just following their queues on what to do to progress. It's still a good game that I enjoyed, but I must admit that about 40% of the time I was trying to break away from their confined solutions.
    Fair enough. As others have said, HL has always been an "interactive roller-coaster" and in that sense it works for me. A lot the other issues you mention resonate with me, but I wouldn't Valve to move away from that particular direction. That IS Half Life imo. Open worlds and such is something else, and would detract from that roller-coaster sensation.
  • Deleted user 19 March 2013 13:39:34
    Widge wrote:
    ...trying to appease those wanting to relive the original repeatedly.
    Similar bollocks being spouted in the Tomb Raider thread. It can't be that hard to realise that there's a difference between evolving a game, and turning it into something else.
  • Dirtbox 19 Mar 2013 13:43:36 79,217 posts
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    We'll beg to differ, but I think you're selling valve short if you think they can't pull something like that off, or have the ability or desire to do so. I came into this conversation with the notion that everyone was attacking the rumour of it being open world.

    I don't personally see any point in doing the same thing over and over again, that's the realm of CoD and other mass produced chud on a fast dev cycle.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 13:45:08 19-03-2013

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  • Deleted user 19 March 2013 13:48:08
    Just to be really clear about what I'm saying, I think there's a difference between improving a game, and changing it.

    I think the roller-coaster thing is generically speaking the type of game that Half Life is. Open world FPS games are a whole different beast. And I'm absolutely certain Valve could and would pull it off, but it still would become something else.
  • nickthegun 19 Mar 2013 13:48:45 61,349 posts
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    I dont really read half life rumours as they are always complete bollocks, so I didnt really know this was a thing.

    Whatever they pump out will, im sure, be great but I like the linearity of the first two (4?) games.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • bunglebonce 19 Mar 2013 13:52:21 2,228 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Stalker was freaky and actually terrifying at certain points, HL2 was creepy at best. Opinion perhaps, but not one many people can argue against.
    Apart from Ravenholm, HL2 wasn't meant to be terrifying. It was about oppression vs humanity, among other things. Children of Men wasn't terrifying, but it doesn't mean that the atmosphere wasn't superb.

    PSN ID: erniewhatbert

  • Dirtbox 19 Mar 2013 13:52:38 79,217 posts
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    Whatever happens it'll still be a linear first person shooter with a crowbar in a post apocalyptic future. Just imo hopefully a little less forced.

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  • Dirtbox 19 Mar 2013 13:53:51 79,217 posts
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    bunglebonce wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    Stalker was freaky and actually terrifying at certain points, HL2 was creepy at best. Opinion perhaps, but not one many people can argue against.
    Apart from Ravenholm, HL2 wasn't meant to be terrifying. It was about oppression vs humanity, among other things. Children of Men wasn't terrifying, but it doesn't mean that the atmosphere wasn't superb.
    You're mixing atmosphere with setting, they're at different ends of the scale.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 13:54:16 19-03-2013

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  • Deleted user 19 March 2013 13:57:19
    Half Life was a good deal scarier than HL2 that's for sure. I think that was an intentional design decision though. I liken it to the Terminator films.

    The first is scary because the main protagonist is a mere scientist/young Linda Hamilton, and so everything is terrifying and scary. By the second the protagonist has grown into a baddass/baddas Linda Hamilton, and so the whole thing gets less scary and more action oriented.
  • bunglebonce 19 Mar 2013 14:00:37 2,228 posts
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    @Dirtbox No I'm not. Atmosphere is about the dominant tone, not how scary something is.

    PSN ID: erniewhatbert

  • Dirtbox 19 Mar 2013 14:02:29 79,217 posts
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    I felt it was more Weekend at Bernies to Weekend at Bernies 2. The first encapsulated the horror of death while defining life with the comedic and ultimately successful human struggle of oppression in the face of a society too fast to adopt a lifestyle that enabled ease of choice at the expense of wellbeing.

    HL2 was about lumping a corpse into slapstick situation after slapstick situation.

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  • Deleted user 19 March 2013 14:04:08
    Your face is Weekend at Bernie's 2.
  • rudedudejude 19 Mar 2013 14:04:09 2,254 posts
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    Sounds more like it will be Rage style open world with quests etc. that seemed to work ok i thought.
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