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Naim Audio

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  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 24 Apr 2012 14:40:48 5,113 posts
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    Been looking at upgrading my source, and I really like the Naim sound, but the range seems quite convoluted now..

    For about two grand you can either get the Naim Dac or a CD5 XS.

    Anybody got any thoughts on which of the two is the better bet; If I went for the dac, the transport would be a cheap Bluray player with optical output.

    Thoughts would be appreciated, sorry if there is an existing thread.
  • urban 24 Apr 2012 14:49:24 10,443 posts
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    You dirty Audiophile you.

    £1,600 on a CD player? Is this Sims 3 type aspirational stuff or what?

    Sorry Audiophiles just bamboozle me, I can't understand why you lot spend so much bloody money on it all.
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 24 Apr 2012 14:54:09 5,113 posts
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    Heh It's an itch you have to scratch. The top of the range model is about 10k.

    My local hifi shop has installed systems that are cumulatively worth more than the property where he's installing it! True story.
  • UncleLou Moderator 24 Apr 2012 15:09:16 34,753 posts
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    While Naim makes some very solid equipment, their DACs and CD players are firmly on the snakeoil side of things, in my humble opinion. I also don't like their advertising the "Naim Sound". If their amps and CD players really have a "sound", they're doing something massively wrong.

    Sorry if that sounds a bit like trolling, but I have a love-hate relationship with the audiophile hifi scene, and I was in a similar situation like you a couple of years ago, and found DACs in particular a massive rip-off. :p

    Edited by UncleLou at 15:10:04 24-04-2012
  • mal 24 Apr 2012 15:10:46 20,710 posts
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    I would say it's worth spending money on your transport, as while one bitstream is very much like another, getting that off the disc is a complicated procedure, and almost all cheap CD players are constantly guessing bits of the bitstream that they miss. But I don't know Naim's range so it's hard for me to say which way to spend your money.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • ecureuil 24 Apr 2012 15:11:18 74,324 posts
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    urban wrote:
    Sorry Audiophiles just bamboozle me, I can't understand why you lot spend so much bloody money on it all.
    The whole industry is a cartel. Just sit back and enjoy it!
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 24 Apr 2012 15:11:54 5,113 posts
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    @UncleLou Troll away. I'm interested in any thoughts tbh.
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 24 Apr 2012 15:16:30 5,113 posts
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    mal wrote:
    I would say it's worth spending money on your transport, as while one bitstream is very much like another, getting that off the disc is a complicated procedure, and almost all cheap CD players are constantly guessing bits of the bitstream that they miss. But I don't know Naim's range so it's hard for me to say which way to spend your money.
    That is interesting. I was under the impression that data is data.
  • kalel 24 Apr 2012 15:17:39 77,123 posts
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    Do they score from the halfway line?
  • mal 24 Apr 2012 15:19:39 20,710 posts
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    Once you get above a certain price point, data is just data. I bought a Plextor Ultraplex CD drive some years back because of it's legendary (Pioneer based) transport. I ripped some music at 1x and at 40x and binary diffed them, and they came out identical. But then if you're looking at Naim you're paying a decent chunk for the name anyway IMO.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • mikew1985 24 Apr 2012 15:26:10 9,925 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Do they score from the halfway line?
    :D
  • kalel 24 Apr 2012 15:26:49 77,123 posts
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    Not really the place fot it, but it just so happens that my new Oppo blu ray player is being delivered this afternoon.

    Just thought this thread might be the most receptive audience.
  • UncleLou Moderator 24 Apr 2012 15:32:43 34,753 posts
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  • UncleLou Moderator 24 Apr 2012 15:32:44 34,753 posts
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  • UncleLou Moderator 24 Apr 2012 15:32:44 34,753 posts
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  • UncleLou Moderator 24 Apr 2012 15:37:09 34,753 posts
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    What the hell, sorry, I have no idea what happened there! :-/

    Anyway, have you considered ripping your CDs? For the price of the CD-player, you can buy a decent NAS, a reasonable streamingdevice/DAC (like a Sonos), and even an iPad to control the whole system, and I'd be veyr surprised if anyone could tell he difference in a blindfold test. Especially as once ripped to FLAC wih a program that makes an online comparison if your rip is accurate, you will have avoided the biggest source of poblems.
  • mrpon 24 Apr 2012 15:37:48 24,432 posts
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    I genuinely couldn't spend that amount of money on audio equipment if I couldn't hear the difference between a cheaper version. You obviously can bitch, so I congratulate you on some mighty fine ear hygiene.

    Give yourself ½ gig or a £, you're worth it.

  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 24 Apr 2012 16:01:40 5,113 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    What the hell, sorry, I have no idea what happened there! :-/

    Anyway, have you considered ripping your CDs? For the price of the CD-player, you can buy a decent NAS, a reasonable streamingdevice/DAC (like a Sonos), and even an iPad to control the whole system, and I'd be veyr surprised if anyone could tell he difference in a blindfold test. Especially as once ripped to FLAC wih a program that makes an online comparison if your rip is accurate, you will have avoided the biggest source of poblems.
    Yep, I think I'm probably a bit too ignorrant to be spending 2 grand.

    At the moment I have a naim amp with a dacmagic which is decent, especially when you feed it lossless flac files. The reason I'm considering the CD player over the dac is that CDs are so cheap now, but yeah, all digital would be cool and definitely more flexible.

    Cheers for the input.
  • UncleLou Moderator 24 Apr 2012 16:14:43 34,753 posts
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    @mrpon The problem is, the "scene" is very dishonest. The companies, the press, the community. There are massive difference, for example, between loudspeakers. Amplifiers, though - not so much. Blindfold tests have shown again and again that noone can tell the difference between a 300 quid Yamaha amp and a 10k quid McIntosh.

    I like to compare it to watches: no watch manufacturer or buyer would claim hat his manual 10k quid wrist watch shows the time better/more exactly than a 10 quid quartz watch from the supermarket. People are honest enough that it's about prestige, optics, build quality. I wish the hifi scene would adopt some of that.
  • mrpon 24 Apr 2012 16:22:02 24,432 posts
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    The father-in-law is in the business and I know about the markups etc.. It's pretty shocking tbh. I myself have a Sonos and whilst it's not the cheapest on the market it is certainly nowhere near the audiophile prices. Or rather, it doesn't have to be as everything is component driven and you spend as much as you feel comfortable for each component.

    I've had one now for over 7 years and give or take the odd hiccup it's performed flawlessly for me.

    Give yourself ½ gig or a £, you're worth it.

  • mal 24 Apr 2012 16:53:35 20,710 posts
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    Yeah, I've always gone British for Speakers (and decks) and Japanese for everything else. Actually, my first hifi (still in use) was largely made in Belgium, according to the labelling.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Chopsen 24 Apr 2012 17:25:10 13,794 posts
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    I'm with UncleLou on this. I like the watch comparison, hadn't thought of it like that before.

    Thing is that DACs are pretty mature, well understood, mass produced tech, which are pretty easily defined and fault tested. I'm sure back in the day (when CD players 1st came out) there were some shocking bits of kit out there, but people have been churning out DACs in their millions for years now, I find it difficult to believe there is that much range in quality.

    For mechanical bits and build quality it's worth paying for a bit more, but I'm sure there's a lot of bullshit out there.

    Thanks for expressing interest in my signature!

  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 24 Apr 2012 17:29:49 5,113 posts
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    I think the more expensive dacs are supposed to buffer the data and re time it, before output. Again, I'm pulling this opinion out of my ass off of HiFi review sites.
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 30 Apr 2012 16:28:29 5,113 posts
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    Hooked up my netbook to the DacMagic and ripped all my cds to uncompressed wav files.

    Using my phone with Gmote 2.0 for Android to control my Hifi.

    Works fantastically well. Cheers. I still may get a better dac though.
  • Deleted user 2 May 2012 17:13:53
    bitch_tits_zero_nine wrote:
    mal wrote:
    I would say it's worth spending money on your transport, as while one bitstream is very much like another, getting that off the disc is a complicated procedure, and almost all cheap CD players are constantly guessing bits of the bitstream that they miss. But I don't know Naim's range so it's hard for me to say which way to spend your money.
    That is interesting. I was under the impression that data is data.
    CD-audio is double decade old system designed with the idea that bits will go missing and correction will need to be applied at the end of the system somewhere.
  • Deleted user 2 May 2012 17:15:09
    Bitch_tits, just get a squeezebox and be done with it.
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 3 May 2012 12:18:53 5,113 posts
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    Whats a squeezebox?
  • bitch_tits_zero_nine 3 May 2012 12:21:24 5,113 posts
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    Just googled it. Logitech stuff is usually pretty good tbf.
  • Armoured_Bear 9 Sep 2012 21:58:38 4,677 posts
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    UncleLou wrote:
    @mrpon The problem is, the "scene" is very dishonest. The companies, the press, the community. There are massive difference, for example, between loudspeakers. Amplifiers, though - not so much. Blindfold tests have shown again and again that noone can tell the difference between a 300 quid Yamaha amp and a 10k quid McIntosh.

    I like to compare it to watches: no watch manufacturer or buyer would claim hat his manual 10k quid wrist watch shows the time better/more exactly than a 10 quid quartz watch from the supermarket. People are honest enough that it's about prestige, optics, build quality. I wish the hifi scene would adopt some of that.
    This is utter nonsense IMO, I just had my 3 10 year old amps upgraded (capacitors,opamps,cabling, terminals, sockets etc. all replaced by much better components, feedback circuit upgraded) and the difference is astonishing, not even close to subtle, I can barely believe my ears.
    I've been grinning and chuckling like a loon all night :-)

    As much nonsense,snake oil etc. there is in the industry, the old "all amps sound the same" is a crock of shite.

    Edited by Armoured_Bear at 22:12:37 09-09-2012
  • Aargh. 9 Sep 2012 22:09:17 11,346 posts
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    Sounds like someone's desperate to justify the money they wasted on new speakers just to play 'The Best of S Club 7'.

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