Fire Emblem: Awakening Page 16

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  • Lukree 9 Jun 2013 07:12:50 166 posts
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    I fucking love this game.

    That's all.

    Except one more thing - Advance Wars next, please!
  • macmurphy 9 Jun 2013 10:16:18 999 posts
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    Don't get me wrong this is a fantastic game, but coming from advance wars is anyone else annoyed that units you severely damage still seem to inflict full damage when they fight back? So say you knock a unit down to 5 HP, it still can take 25 HP off you when it attacks next turn.

    On advance wars I was always pushing forward looking for S grades, and you could leave units exposed. So say two units could attack two units, safe in the knowledge that they would not be able to do too much damage to your units next turn due to massively reduced HP. If you do this on Fire Emblem, next turn both units will attack one unit next term and, doing full damage, take it out. Add this to the support features which make units fighting on adjacent squares a priority, I seem to spend every battle turning my forces into a big wedge/square and just sticking the meat heads at the front, the magicians at the back and a few stave wielders in between and just soaking every attack until I can plod forward.there are variations when the units start split up or I might split them up to chase a thief with some treasure, but it's all fairly similar.

    Am I doing it wrong? I love the story, the production values are seamless, and to start with I thought it was the best advance wars style game I had ever seen, now I'm not so sure. Anyone else?
  • Mola_Ram 9 Jun 2013 10:29:46 7,705 posts
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    This isn't Advance Wars. Playing it the same way will get your guys killed, and it's not like you can just buy more of them.

    I suppose the "attacking at full strength even when wounded" thing might take getting used to. But having played half a dozen FE games over the past decade, I'm pretty used to it by now.
  • thegofp 9 Jun 2013 10:36:39 169 posts
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    Both Fire Emblem and Advance Wars are made by Intelligent Systems, and Fire Emblem came years before-hand... so the Advance Wars titles are actually Fire Emblem-style (which is probably something-else-style).

    Personally I prefer Fire Emblem which has units always doing max damage. Sometimes it doesn't quite make sense or puts units into suicide positions, but in Advance Wars it always felt like halfway through the battle I was running around with gimped units. It just made the game feel slow in comparison.
  • macmurphy 9 Jun 2013 10:45:58 999 posts
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    Fair points. I just think that, especially on levels with a lot of enemy wyverns and the like, you just have to make a big block of blokes and sit them in a huddle. So every battle seems to end up a bit repetitive. I really enjoyed the story, and in fairness I will buy the next FE game without question. I think I just prefer the Advance Wars combat. Horses for courses I guess.
  • mal 9 Jun 2013 11:28:35 22,710 posts
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    I found overpowered wyverns to be a problem early in the game, but these days my main guys are levelled up enough to survive a few wyvern strikes without too much worry.

    I'll often play a defensive round first round but once enemy units are within range of enough units, it's mainly about counting up how many units you can take out with your weaker ranged shots first, then mopping up the rest with your stronger units - just calculate first whether you've got enough firepower to protect your weaker ranged shots before you move them out of formation to attack.

    Quick question from me: other than finding items, what's the point of barracks conversations? There seem to be a few basic types: relationship improved, stats surge ones and 'let's pair up' ones. I'm not sure if the stats surge gives you a temporary stats boost, but the other two don't seem to do anything much immediately.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • macmurphy 9 Jun 2013 11:43:44 999 posts
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    My guess is that the support system works like EXP, you gradually get more and more points as they help each other out until finally it produces a conversation cutscene where their relation goes up on that ABCS scale. So you wouldn't expect to see any immediate change in the barracks (it will just spark a conversation sometimes). So in the barracks you get this, EXP and the odd weapon. That's what I thought.
  • mal 9 Jun 2013 12:18:47 22,710 posts
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    Yeah, that's what I'm assuming. Presumably if you follow their pairing up recommendations there's some bonus too.

    Slightly unexpected that I've never actually seen a level up when you get given extra EXP, even though you sometimes get some quite big amounts.

    Oh and talking of pairing up, I've still not really got to grips with that. Sometimes useful to save weaker characters in a story battle, but most of the time I want my weak characters free to pick off the stragglers to level them up. Must say, I far prefer the old rescue system.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • jimlufc 9 Jun 2013 22:49:12 118 posts
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    Yeah I have also never seen anyone level up by standing on one of those shiny squares.

    The exp points must get added at the next combat turn I guess.
  • boxoctosis 9 Jun 2013 23:54:01 62 posts
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    The exp gets added there and then but it won't level you up - its capped. If you're on (say) 93 exp and you get (say) 20 exp from a shiny square you go to 99 and essentially lose the other 14.

    PSN: boxoctosis

  • mal 10 Jun 2013 00:01:51 22,710 posts
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    Ah, makes sense. Would explain why every so often I get levelled up after defeating a gnat.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Mola_Ram 10 Jun 2013 00:05:00 7,705 posts
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    mal wrote:
    Oh and talking of pairing up, I've still not really got to grips with that. Sometimes useful to save weaker characters in a story battle, but most of the time I want my weak characters free to pick off the stragglers to level them up. Must say, I far prefer the old rescue system.
    I used to think that, but the pairings really do add so much to the game. I'm a convert.
  • JinTypeNoir 10 Jun 2013 02:41:45 4,392 posts
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    Both Fire Emblem and Advance Wars are made by Intelligent Systems, and Fire Emblem came years before-hand... so the Advance Wars titles are actually Fire Emblem-style (which is probably something-else-style).
    This is not true. The Wars series came first and after it, Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem is based on the Wars engine, not the other way around.

    Don't get me wrong this is a fantastic game, but coming from advance wars is anyone else annoyed that units you severely damage still seem to inflict full damage when they fight back?
    Fire Emblem has been around for a long time and to varying extents, its had what you are talking about, or something close to it. The developers have actually talked about this before. The reason a lot of Fire Emblem games don't even try to address it is because the developers are aiming for a high level of tension at all times, so there is always the risk of a beloved character being off permanently. If you had this system, that would go down significantly.

    Also, when you say, "am I doing it wrong?" I would say, "Kind of." To each their own, but I think Fire Emblem is most rewarding when you develop nasty, tricky strategies and in a combination of random luck and good planning, it goes well. So I didn't turtle very often like you did, but used dual support to enhance the chance I had to do risky things.

    The thing that makes me love Fire Emblem as compared to other strategy games is that you never know. I think it does an outstanding job of recreating the unknowable chaos and fortune of what real battle must be like and in that context, I love leading victory charges, last stands, feints and coups. But I do think Awakening, this time, in order to reach a broader sense subscribed to a Final Fantasy idea of game balance where you can step through the strategy to a certain extent, instead of being heavily encouraged by the difficulty to get brave and try new things. But hey, nothing ventured, nothing gained. I think Fire Emblem gives you the most satisfying gain for your venture of any strategy series I play and like.
  • Mola_Ram 10 Jun 2013 02:57:56 7,705 posts
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    Turtling is necessary on a couple of maps when you're boxed in from all sides. At least for the first couple of turns it is.

    And I assume it will be mandatory on Lunatic, which I cannot wait to try.
  • thegofp 10 Jun 2013 03:43:14 169 posts
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    JinTypeNoir wrote:
    Both Fire Emblem and Advance Wars are made by Intelligent Systems, and Fire Emblem came years before-hand... so the Advance Wars titles are actually Fire Emblem-style (which is probably something-else-style).
    This is not true. The Wars series came first and after it, Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem is based on the Wars engine, not the other way around.
    Actually, it is true. I said Advance Wars, not the Wars series. Advance Wars is Fire Emblem-style which is Famicom Wars-style. Semantics, but still technically true.

    /aka I forgot about the earlier titles

    Edited by thegofp at 03:44:56 10-06-2013
  • Alastair 10 Jun 2013 08:10:56 16,066 posts
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    macmurphy wrote:
    My guess is that the support system works like EXP, you gradually get more and more points as they help each other out until finally it produces a conversation cutscene where their relation goes up on that ABCS scale. So you wouldn't expect to see any immediate change in the barracks (it will just spark a conversation sometimes). So in the barracks you get this, EXP and the odd weapon. That's what I thought.
    I once had one - the barracks conversation said the relationship improved. When I went back to the menu the Support option was highlighted and the two characters then had their next conversation. So it does happen.
  • Mola_Ram 10 Jun 2013 08:17:36 7,705 posts
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    Barracks conversations increase the support rating by a certain amount, but I'm not sure exactly how much. Maybe the equivalent of a few paired up battles.
  • Wolves1877 10 Jun 2013 16:36:37 440 posts
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    When I load FE up I am getting the message ' Extra data not found you will not be able to use SpotPass would you like to deactivate it ' Whys this? I think I may have deleted something by accident?
  • mal 10 Jun 2013 18:20:15 22,710 posts
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    Sounds like you've deleted some of the data on the SD card which it uses to run spotpass for the game even when the cart's not inserted. Try going into extras from the first menu and disable/reenable spotpass.

    Regarding tutling and randomness, I actually like Fire Emblems degree of randomness, but wouldn't want more. I played a bit of Battle for Wesnoth, which has proper D&D-style random everything and it's fucking annoying at times. Far prefer Fire Emblem's style of 'occasionally we'll fuck you up'.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Alastair 11 Jun 2013 08:12:27 16,066 posts
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    I played through Wesnoth a bit on the tablet and was quite getting into it. Tried hard to level up my units, then I got to a level and it was like 'Bam!' I was getting decimated by some undead in a cave. Gave up. :(

    Very much loving FE though. Sumia and Chrom are a pretty awesome team, as are Ricken and Lissa, Meriel and Donnel and Stahl and Panne. In fact pretty much all of them are good. Not used Gaius much yet.
  • Mola_Ram 11 Jun 2013 08:27:04 7,705 posts
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    Gaius is a speed demon. Pair him with someone who increases his defence though, as he's a bit of a glass cannon.
  • Wolves1877 12 Jun 2013 18:55:38 440 posts
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    @mal

    Sorted it mate, Deleted all FE data from SD card & re-downloaded game from e-shop, Was only about an hour in so haven't lost a great deal.
  • Dravos 14 Jun 2013 11:49:07 177 posts
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    Will be playing through again to try and get the marriages I wanted, maybe min/max it, after a certain point on first play through I just went with whatever came up in the end.

    3DS FC: 2664-2580-8829

  • telboy007 20 Jun 2013 10:19:29 576 posts
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    I'm glad this game has a noob mode, I'm not very good at keeping everyone alive. :) Awesome game though, it looks so purdy. Next play through will be done properly where deaths means deaded.

    Unlocked the achievement Exploring Uranus

  • Alastair 20 Jun 2013 11:48:05 16,066 posts
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    I'm having a bit of trouble with Chapter 11.
    Possible spoilers...
    Not sure if I'm picking the wrong units or sending them in the wrong directions, but I end up getting somewhat swamped. Despite blocking a couple of the forts.
    I'm wondering if I need to use some Master Seals to power up my characters...
    On that topic, is there any received wisdom on what re-classes are best for each character?
    What have people re-classed Donnel as?
    Final question - does another archer turn up? I only have Virion.
  • Mola_Ram 20 Jun 2013 12:10:40 7,705 posts
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    I wouldn't use Master Seals unless you have characters at 20. But feel free if you're having trouble.

    Send units with high Res east, as that side of the map is magic-heavy. Apart from that, have a mix of units, as there's a lot of variety in enemy units. Put units on all of the forts (except for the central one, as the boss will come up to attack it, killing you if you're not ready), and try to have them be units with high defence. Bait enemies with your high-defence units, then take them out.

    As for re-classes, there's no real "conventional wisdom". It mostly depends on what skills you want them to have, and what skills you want them to pass down to children. You can have Ricken as a General, afaik. Which would actually be pretty funny.

    As for Donnel, I made him a merc, then Hero.

    And yes, you do get another archer. This game seems to be really light on the archers for some reason.
  • Alastair 20 Jun 2013 12:18:51 16,066 posts
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    I was thinking of reclassing Donnel to be an archer for this very reason. He's only level 8 at the moment though. Some more grinding required...

    I am somewhat spamming the fuck out of the two DLC grind maps. I don't see it as cheating really - it's a chance to get lots of cash to forge weapons and a chance to level up characters that I would probably otherwise ignore. In previous games I've ended up with a stock troop that I use every chapter, the other characters get left behind and are then too weak to use. By levelling everyone up I have more options on each map.
  • f00b_inc 20 Jun 2013 12:21:38 703 posts
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    Started this at 11pm last night - big mistake.......... I am so tired at work today.

    Love it. Great to have a portable FE game again!
  • Mola_Ram 20 Jun 2013 12:27:19 7,705 posts
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    I use the grinding DLC sparingly. Not that I think it's cheating as such... well, no moreso than spending money to get powerups with IAPs these days. I just like the challenge, and the grinding DLCs are anti-challenge. But they are useful for letting really low-level characters catch up.

    Anyway, Donnel can't become an Archer. But a couple of his promoted classes can use bows.
  • Alastair 20 Jun 2013 12:30:42 16,066 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    Anyway, Donnel can't become an Archer. But a couple of his promoted classes can use bows.
    Ahh, well that's two useful bits I didn't know.
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