I don't get why Warsi is the one who gave the speech - if Christians need to be more comfortable within British Society then why don't the Tories employ a Bishop to give the speech who'll emphasise the merits of the Christian faith?
Militant Secularisation • Page 2
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senso-ji 4,529 posts
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MetalDog 23,448 posts
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Registered 11 years agoI think the Archbishop of Canterbury is a bit too left-leaning for the tastes of the c-- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.
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disusedgenius 4,810 posts
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Registered 6 years agoAlso, she comes at it from a Muslim perspective, so seems less divisive than banging on about the CofE all the time.
Plus she was visiting the Vatican and everything... -
Articulate-Troll 3,044 posts
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Registered 5 years agoWarsi seems quite happy to refer to secular society as "militant"; the irony being that secularists (who are apparently in her mind the same as atheists) are probably the least likely group of people to have you murdered for saying offensive shit about them. -
nickthegun 44,250 posts
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Registered 7 years agoI think the problem is that the church itself doesnt know what it wants, so how can it be relevant to the rest of society?
On sunday I watched a load of women arguing about whether to allow women bishops, with one half saying 'you are a magistrate, you have power over men yet you do not want women bishops?' and the other half saying 'I would sooner become catholic'.
The church itself is going through changes at the moment, so I cant really see why you would expect it to be a prominent part of governance.---------------------------------------------------------
AGP.SRPT -
Chopsen 13,692 posts
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Articulate-Troll 3,044 posts
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Registered 5 years agoChopsen wrote:
Stalin would have you murdered for insulting his divine belief in himself and his magical communist powers to create a perfect utopia -- not for insulting any state without religion.
@Articulate-Troll Stalin disagrees.
/avoids Godwin. Again. -
mcmonkeyplc 35,774 posts
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Registered 10 years agolocalnotail wrote:
It needs to come from someone that is not funded by his "foundation" for it to be more credible.
Heard Richard Dawkins on Today about this today - his foundation commissioned a survey on beliefs in the UK: details here
Religion and government
Three quarters (74%) strongly agree or tend to agree that religion should not have special influence on public policy, with only one in eight (12%) thinking that it should.
Just 2% of respondents disagree with the statement that the law should apply to everyone equally, regardless of their personal religious beliefs, with 92% supporting it.
More oppose than support the idea of the UK having an official state religion, with nearly half (46%) against and only a third (32%) in favour. The same pattern is repeated with the question of seats being reserved for Church of England bishops in the House of Lords: 32% of respondents oppose, with only 25% in favour.
There is overwhelming support for religion being a private, not public, matter. Asked how strongly they support the statement that governments should not interfere in religion, 79% strongly agree or tend to agree, with only 8% strongly disagreeing or tending to disagree.
Hopefully this is the last desperate cry out before church and state are seperated for good.
I doubt it though.Come and get it cumslingers!
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mcmonkeyplc 35,774 posts
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Registered 10 years agoSomeone needs to inform Warsi what secularism is.
Also see India/Turkey/USA for countries that are secular.
I think they have pretty obvious religious identities despite being secular.Come and get it cumslingers!
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MightyMetalMonkey 598 posts
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Registered 5 years agoLooks like I chose a bad day to give up Militant Discordianism !
Chao ! -
fergal_oc 2,762 posts
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Registered 9 years agoNick's hit the nail on the head as far as I can see. Someone else mentioned that religions require blind faith yet it's the faith they have in their own religion that's the real problem.
Warsi is an idiot, no bones about it but the speech has a political message as well as a religious one. Governments and rulers have long used religions and other belief systems to help control mass populations. Unfortunately the last few generations have been given the freedom to pass information between wide groups of people with differing beliefs at a rate completely unseen ever in the history of society.
This has led to a breakdown in the control ruling parties used to have, just look at the number of regimes that have toppled in the last 18months purely because information that was once held away from the people is now to difficult to barrage.
Thankfully we don't quite have to repression that those regimes had but the next logical thing to go is organised religion. People like Warsi have no doubt used their religious standing to help them get to where they are today. Without that she's just a normal toffy idiot, no wonder she's running scared.
As the wise Syndrome once said:"If everyone is super then no one is.”
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thedaveeyres 8,270 posts
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Registered 7 years agoAsk yourself why Warsi is a baroness, and not a regular MP. Ask yourself what this says about the political party she is a member of. Ask yourself how someone can bear to be a member of a club that doesn't want her type. Ask yourself, "How do I work this?" And you may ask yourself, "Where is that large automobile?" And you may tell yourself, "This is not my beautiful house" And you may tell yourself, "This is not my beautiful wife".D****** ******r
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MetalDog 23,448 posts
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Registered 11 years agoI have a lot of faith in religion. It will never 'die out', but I also think it will never stay exactly the same either. Not until someone gets it absolutely right, anyway - and I don't think anyone has yet.-- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.
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President_Weasel 7,709 posts
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Registered 9 years agothedaveeyres wrote:
I'm not even sure there's water flowing under ground at the moment, what with the rumoured impending "super drought".
Ask yourself why Warsi is a baroness, and not a regular MP. Ask yourself what this says about the political party she is a member of. Ask yourself how someone can bear to be a member of a club that doesn't want her type. Ask yourself, "How do I work this?" And you may ask yourself, "Where is that large automobile?" And you may tell yourself, "This is not my beautiful house" And you may tell yourself, "This is not my beautiful wife".
Edited by President_Weasel at 12:06:57 14-02-2012 -
MightyMetalMonkey 598 posts
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Registered 5 years agothedaveeyres wrote:
So, where did the days go by ?
Ask yourself why Warsi is a baroness, and not a regular MP. Ask yourself what this says about the political party she is a member of. Ask yourself how someone can bear to be a member of a club that doesn't want her type. Ask yourself, "How do I work this?" And you may ask yourself, "Where is that large automobile?" And you may tell yourself, "This is not my beautiful house" And you may tell yourself, "This is not my beautiful wife".
Into the blue again ?!! -
BabyJesus 4,414 posts
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Registered 4 years agoPfft Warsi, she's only got a job to fill the cabinet minority/female quota. She doesn't even have a portfolio. She couldn't win a safe seat, so got a peerage parachute.
Her own party doesn't even listen to her, every 6 months or so she bangs on about something then disappears.
Pickles is the dangerous one when it comes to seperation of church & state (also donuts).
Edited by BabyJesus at 12:37:08 14-02-2012 -
FogHeart 714 posts
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Registered 5 years agoHolding prayers before meeting, displaying religious images in public buildings etc...it's not liked because it's seen as 'staking out territory'. If a Christian prayer is made, then that's to the exclusion of another religion, therefore Christianity is seen to enjoy a privilege where other religions are not. It's ridiculous to add more and more prayers, so the only solution to placate those that object is to have none whatsoever. The same argument runs for any symbols in public buildings.
But because it's impossible to have every religion represented simultaneously, and so the only way to 'level the playing field' is to have none, it can be perceived as deliberate eradication of any sign of religion. Sure, there are people who want that and are happy that it's perceived as intolerance to religion, but that can't be helped.
For myself I'm happy that this society feels that on the whole religion is a private matter and to flaunt it publicly is regarded as distasteful (a bit like workman's bum). That way no religion be seen - intentionally or not - to be marking out territory. -
BabyJesus 4,414 posts
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Registered 4 years agoAnother thing, I'm sick of the tories becoming republicans, they are trying to change the political debate to one as deranged & fanatical as the US. -
Metalfish 8,277 posts
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Registered 8 years agoReligion is like a bum.
-FogHeart -
BabyJesus 4,414 posts
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nickthegun 44,250 posts
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Registered 7 years agoMy mrs is sure that religions will shrink and shrink until they become secrative and dangerous fundamentalist cults.---------------------------------------------------------
AGP.SRPT -
senso-ji 4,529 posts
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Registered 5 years agoApparently Richard Dawkins was humiliated live on the Radio regarding this matter. He argued that the census question on religion was pointless because most Christians couldn't quote anything from the bible. When asked if he could quote the full title of Darwin's 'Origin of the Species' he emphatically said yes, then failed to do so.
Was on the Today programme, did anyone catch it? -
nickthegun 44,250 posts
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Registered 7 years agoI wouldnt really call that humiliation and it certainly doesnt negate that particular argument.---------------------------------------------------------
AGP.SRPT -
Chopsen 13,692 posts
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Registered 8 years agoApparently, he was also told that people questioned his sexuality and that his mother was obese. Later, on another show, his grammar was shown to be incorrect and his taste in music was found to be lacking. He was indeed owned. Take that Richard Dawkins!Thanks for expressing interest in my signature!
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El_MUERkO 16,126 posts
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Registered 10 years agoThe Today programme, where someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong, it's the Daily Mail Radio Ear Shit hour! YAY!! -
MetalDog 23,448 posts
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Registered 11 years agoHe was really hung up on the fact that many of the people he polled couldn't name the first book in the New Testament - so they asked him if he, the grand pope of Darwinism - could recite the full title of the Origin of Species and he fluffed it.
No idea why he thinks people need to know the books in order so badly though, the books can be read in any order. It would have been more pertinent to ask them if they'd ever read it at all, I would have thought.-- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.
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TheSaint 11,581 posts
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Registered 7 years agoThe Today Programme is awesome, it's about the only thing that makes the drive to work bearable. -
MetalDog 23,448 posts
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Registered 11 years agoIt is kind of funny seeing people declare the Today Programme as overly combative in style while defending Dawkins though =)-- boobs do nothing for me, I want moustaches and chest hair.
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Chopsen 13,692 posts
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Registered 8 years agoI hate the Today Programme.
To quote Graham Linehan
" The style of debate practised by the Today programme poisons discourse in this country. An arena where there are no positions possible except diametrically opposed ones, where nuance is not permitted, where politicians are forced into defensive positions of utter banality...none of it is any good for the national conversation."
http://glinner.posterous.com/56078994Thanks for expressing interest in my signature!
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MetalDog wrote:
Who's doing that?
It is kind of funny seeing people declare the Today Programme as overly combative in style while defending Dawkins though =)Thanks for expressing interest in my signature!
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