WipEout 2048 Page 12

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  • Deleted user 27 September 2013 14:55:08
    That is flatout untrue. More complicated than F-Zero?

    GX has the most mental tracks I've ever played. Twists, tunnels, tubes, loads of turns and jumps. They are incredible, and with the dynamic gravity you end up spinning round a tube or tunnel laterally, like the fire level. Very fun and exciting.

    The level design is top notch from a score attack perspective too. Great turns and tricky jumps you have to memorise.

    In comparison the level design in Wipeout is simple, far from being more complicated than F-Zero.

    Look at the video above, it's a very straightforward track with a few humps in the road.
  • King_Edward 27 Sep 2013 16:40:43 11,454 posts
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    They're mental because of there speed though. You couldn't get around a track from Wipeout at the speed of F Zero. They're too tight and twisted to control a vehicle around at that speed.
  • FuzzyDuck 27 Sep 2013 17:18:40 4,003 posts
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    Sol II is one of the easier tracks in HD/Fury. The few bumps and corners become a lot to handle when you're playing on Phantom, controlling your steering, pitching, independent L/R airbreaks, sideshifting, fighting through the field, trying to avoid competitor's weapons whilst to land your own hits.

    It's not quite as fast as F-Zero, but it's still fast enough to take serious skill to play properly. I've seen well seasoned gamers wince at Wipeout.

    Also, go get the 'Zone Zeus' trophy on HD/Fury to witness the speeds it can reach and how beautifully it controls.
  • Deleted user 27 September 2013 18:54:02
    King_Edward wrote:
    They're mental because of there speed though. You couldn't get around a track from Wipeout at the speed of F Zero. They're too tight and twisted to control a vehicle around at that speed.
    Have you played F-Zero GX? I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. I'm curious because under no circumstance could Wipeout's tracks be considered more complex than GX's.

    F-Zero GX has full twists and corkscrews, heavy banking, HUGE jumps, multiple paths, tunnels you can drive all the way around, tubes you can drive all the way around with boosts and obstacles spread across multiple paths. They are not mental just because of speed, they are mental because they are the most complex tracks I've played on any futuristic racer, and I've played loads of them recently for research.

    In comparison Wipeout's tracks are downright simple. They are narrower, and that's about it.

    You could get round them with GX's handling model at GX speed as it's so much more responsive and precise than Wipeout.
  • Deleted user 27 September 2013 19:06:46
    FuzzyDuck wrote:
    Sol II is one of the easier tracks in HD/Fury. The few bumps and corners become a lot to handle when you're playing on Phantom, controlling your steering, pitching, independent L/R airbreaks, sideshifting, fighting through the field, trying to avoid competitor's weapons whilst to land your own hits.

    It's not quite as fast as F-Zero, but it's still fast enough to take serious skill to play properly. I've seen well seasoned gamers wince at Wipeout.

    Also, go get the 'Zone Zeus' trophy on HD/Fury to witness the speeds it can reach and how beautifully it controls.
    I'll give HD Fury another go as I want to like it.

    I've played a bit so far, possibly got to the 2nd class. I'll see if it's any more fun reaching the Phantom class.

    So far I think the most fun I've had by far are the Zone events, and the events shooting obstacles, maybe that's also a "Zone". I love the stylised vector looking tracks, and the sweeping colour change etc.
  • King_Edward 27 Sep 2013 20:39:50 11,454 posts
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    I'm not disputing F Zero's quality or complexity as a whole. I'm simply saying that to have Wipeout's tight, twisted tracks the game has to be slower. Most of the complexities you names (twists, corkscrews, jumps, tunnels and tubes to be precise) are just aesthetic by themselves. They only become complexities when you're asked to negotiate them at the speed F Zero does.

    This reminds me of the annoying Mario complex that some people have. Where by all 2D platformers are guaged purely on their similarity to Mario, and in no way on their own balancing.

    Edited by King_Edward at 20:52:02 27-09-2013
  • Deleted user 27 September 2013 21:02:51
    Actually they are not just aesthetic. Getting all the boosts is a key component to getting legit times in GX, and steering your way around the tubes and tunnels with dynamic gravity, getting all the boosts and avoiding the obstacles is very challenging. The Wipeout tracks I can sleepwalk through.

    Same with the twists and jumps in F-Zero GX, you have to be incredibly quick and precise just to stay on the track.

    In comparison, the Wipeout tracks just felt like standard tracks in a driving game. Nothing about them was particularly mental or challenging. They are like any other track, just a series of turns, with some inclines and the odd hump or jump.

    What is it you feel is more complex about the Wipeout tracks? Because the way I see it, they are downright simple in terms of design. Some of them look extremely nice, there's no denying that, but the level design is simple and straightforward.
  • King_Edward 27 Sep 2013 21:18:26 11,454 posts
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    Try to imagine going around a track from F Zero in a car from Wipeout. Can you picture how easy every corner is? How much space you have on the track? That's all I mean by complexity.
  • King_Edward 27 Sep 2013 21:18:27 11,454 posts
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    .

    Edited by King_Edward at 21:18:43 27-09-2013
  • FuzzyDuck 28 Sep 2013 13:35:51 4,003 posts
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    rumblesushi wrote:
    FuzzyDuck wrote:
    Sol II is one of the easier tracks in HD/Fury. The few bumps and corners become a lot to handle when you're playing on Phantom, controlling your steering, pitching, independent L/R airbreaks, sideshifting, fighting through the field, trying to avoid competitor's weapons whilst to land your own hits.

    It's not quite as fast as F-Zero, but it's still fast enough to take serious skill to play properly. I've seen well seasoned gamers wince at Wipeout.

    Also, go get the 'Zone Zeus' trophy on HD/Fury to witness the speeds it can reach and how beautifully it controls.
    I'll give HD Fury another go as I want to like it.

    I've played a bit so far, possibly got to the 2nd class. I'll see if it's any more fun reaching the Phantom class.

    So far I think the most fun I've had by far are the Zone events, and the events shooting obstacles, maybe that's also a "Zone". I love the stylised vector looking tracks, and the sweeping colour change etc.
    Wait, so you're saying you can sleepwalk around Wipeout's tracks but you're only playing it on Flash? That's just abit outside training wheel territory. Try consistently perfect lapping Chengou Project or Sebenco Climb on Phantom.

    Also to get a sense of what kind of speeds the game is capable of, check this Zone Mode play out. It's amazing once you go over zone 40 or so - you've just about got proper control of your ship when the top speed creeps up that bit more and puts it to the edge of your control. That process keeps repeating until you're eating the barrier on every corner.

  • Deleted user 28 September 2013 15:24:22
    King_Edward wrote:
    Try to imagine going around a track from F Zero in a car from Wipeout. Can you picture how easy every corner is? How much space you have on the track? That's all I mean by complexity.
    So basically by complexity, all you mean is how narrow the track is? :D

    I'll give you that, the Wipeout track is probably half as wide as F-Zero, but that really has nothing to do with complexity. The corners themselves are pretty simple. Most of them are smooth, you can see them coming, not many banked turns, and not many turns that are 90 degrees or sharper either.

    So imagining going round an F-Zero track in a ship from Wipeout, I'd imagine to be harder because the handling of the ships in Wipeout is so much slower and floatier than F-Zero, and the tracks in GX have obstacles and sharp corners.
  • Deleted user 28 September 2013 15:28:35
    FuzzyDuck wrote:
    rumblesushi wrote:
    FuzzyDuck wrote:
    Sol II is one of the easier tracks in HD/Fury. The few bumps and corners become a lot to handle when you're playing on Phantom, controlling your steering, pitching, independent L/R airbreaks, sideshifting, fighting through the field, trying to avoid competitor's weapons whilst to land your own hits.

    It's not quite as fast as F-Zero, but it's still fast enough to take serious skill to play properly. I've seen well seasoned gamers wince at Wipeout.

    Also, go get the 'Zone Zeus' trophy on HD/Fury to witness the speeds it can reach and how beautifully it controls.
    I'll give HD Fury another go as I want to like it.

    I've played a bit so far, possibly got to the 2nd class. I'll see if it's any more fun reaching the Phantom class.

    So far I think the most fun I've had by far are the Zone events, and the events shooting obstacles, maybe that's also a "Zone". I love the stylised vector looking tracks, and the sweeping colour change etc.
    Wait, so you're saying you can sleepwalk around Wipeout's tracks but you're only playing it on Flash? That's just abit outside training wheel territory. Try consistently perfect lapping Chengou Project or Sebenco Climb on Phantom.

    Also to get a sense of what kind of speeds the game is capable of, check this Zone Mode play out. It's amazing once you go over zone 40 or so - you've just about got proper control of your ship when the top speed creeps up that bit more and puts it to the edge of your control. That process keeps repeating until you're eating the barrier on every corner.

    How was I supposed to know that though? I had no idea the different classes signified different speeds, I thought it was just extra difficulty, like most racers. Better CPU opponents etc.

    I'm an old school arcade gamer, I really don't like starting out gimped in any game, I like to get the full experience immediately. I'm not one for grinding.

    I'll persist with HD Fury though, as I really like the Zone tracks and some of the other equally stylised ones. Much more than the standard tracks and gameplay modes.

    I'll also try 2048 when I get a Vita soon, as that came in the Wipeout pack I bought.

    Should I go straight to the Fury mode in 2048, or is the original worth playing?
  • FuzzyDuck 28 Sep 2013 15:45:39 4,003 posts
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    Well seeing as you've been saying how much more complex F-Zero is, I've assumed you have decent knowledge of the Wiepout series to make such a claim.

    I like to dive in and learn the hard way too (and I believe that we've agreed in the past about certain PS3 exclusives not having enough interactivity :D), but there is a learning curve to HD/Fury (and I used to be able to perfect lap every track on 2097 on Phantom in the Piranha back when it had max stats).

    I do actually play the Zone and um, (can't remember what it's called right now!) Bomb modes a good bit too (along with time trial) as the AI is guilty of rubber banding, especially on the Elite difficulty and it can detract from the game (I've done perfect laps, hit all the speed pads, nailed all my barrel rolls, had turbo boost pick ups in the faster ships and still the entire grid has left me standing in the dust).

    I've played every game in the series (and most of them for a good bit too), and I honestly think 2048 is one of the best. Dunno about HD on the Vita, but I'm honestly tempted to buy the console again just for 2048 + DLC.
  • Deleted user 28 September 2013 16:12:07
    I do have somewhat decent knowledge of the series. As I said I've recently played almost every single one, almost all tracks on Wipeout 1, 2 and 3, Wipeout Pure, and HD/Fury. I've certainly played enough tracks to make an informed opinion on them put it that way, even if I haven't unlocked the fastest classes.

    Part of the reason I've played so many futuristic racers recently is I've recently started making one. Wipeout is good inspiration in a way, as the tracks are much simpler from a design and modelling perspective, and many of them do look very good. And of course Wipeout is a popular series, so they must be doing something right. F-Zero X is another good one, as the tracks are so bare and simple in terms of art design, but in terms of level design they are excellent, without being quite as complex and OTT as GX.

    How does 2048 stack up to the PSP versions? I'm not sure why exactly, but Pure did stand out as being the best of the series I've played so far, just seemed a bit more fun and engaging. Maybe with slightly better handling and sense of speed.
  • atomicjuicer 28 Sep 2013 23:24:40 302 posts
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    2048 is better than pure in my opinion.

    Excluding 3 (which I disliked) I've played every wipeout game in depth.

    2048 has a great new swoopy steering thing going on. It's still not as bouncy as the first two games on ps1 but its definitely as much fun and with drop dead astonishing graphics.

    HD is "good" in my book. It's technically perfect but is missing charm.

    2048 is wipeout's soul. It's the best version in the entire series in my opinion.

    Regarding fzero and ridge racers - they're both top notch game series for speed racing but they'll always be second place to wipeout for me!

    Edited by atomicjuicer at 23:25:27 28-09-2013
  • Deleted user 28 September 2013 23:59:22
    Thanks for the feedback.

    I agree with you about HD, my girlfriend and I were both excited about playing it, but it is lacking a certain something. That spark and magic that makes a truly compelling game. Technically it is amazing though, so it's a shame. The graphics are incredible being that it's essentially 1080p60.

    Wipeout 2 struck me as the best of the PS1 versions. I remember liking Wipeout 1 back in the day when it first came out, but replaying it recently, it felt very slow.

    It's a shame it's only 30fps, but I am excited about playing 2048.
  • FuzzyDuck 6 Oct 2013 10:11:37 4,003 posts
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    Forgot to check back in here, sorry.

    Wipeout 2097 is indeed the best of the PS1 games (and the entire series IMO) - it has that special something where everything fell into place; the soundtrack was a big deal at the time, I recall booting up the demo of Gare D'Europa in 1997 and the graphics causing my jaw to hit the floor, you could have massive (for Wipeout) grids of 15 opponents, the game progression is perfect, the Designers' Republic work is still amazing, and above all, the handling is sublime.

    If Sony would be kind enough to put a 60Hz version of it on the store I would probably fall over from happiness, but I'm sure the myriad of licences from the soundtrack and DR images would probably make it difficult.

    Have you tried 2048 yet? And good luck with your futuristic racer project :)
  • Deleted user 7 October 2013 21:15:27
    Cheers Fuzzy. It's a free web game, so only 6 weeks dev time between 2 people. Currently weighing up whether to develop a weapon system, or use the 2 solid weeks it would take me to refine the racing/handling as much as possible.

    Because it's a British game, surely 2097 is full speed with no borders, only running at 25fps rather than 30 right? Rather than your standard crappy PAL conversion.

    I haven't played 2048 yet, no, but I'm getting a Vita next week so I look forward to playing it then.

    As it happens I did play Wipeout Pulse for the first time the other day, and that is probably my favourite one yet. I prefer the handling, more precise, less wallowy. And the speed of the craft at the start of the game seems a lot better than the others actually.

    Still not quite feeling a great sense of speed even on Super Phantom tbh, but it's fast enough, and seems like a good game for sure. The graphics on this and Pure are stunning for the PSP. British devs really are brilliant as far as performance goes. Psygnosis, Rockstar, and Criterion all get ridiculous performance from machines.
  • BeebleB 7 Oct 2013 21:33:59 899 posts
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    Both PSP ones are class. It disappointed me that fury just recycled the tracks. The thing that grinds my gears about wipeout is just how easily a knock or traffic can ruin ur race.

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  • FuzzyDuck 11 Oct 2013 18:18:08 4,003 posts
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    @rumblesushi

    I say refine the handling - most racers live or die by it. Throw us up a link when you're too, would like a gawk at it :D

    Good shout about some of those British devs, Criterion are absolute ninjas. I recall my jaw hitting the floor when I first played Burnout 3 on PS2. Pity they seem to be tied up with NFS now and there's no Burnout sequel in sight :(

    So, so tempted to buy a Vita again for Wipeout - I'll have the DLC for 2048 as I own HD/Fury digitally (and on disc too), and have pure on my account too. Gutted Studio Liverpool is no more :(
  • Deleted user 12 October 2013 13:25:13
    Same here Fuzzy, having owned a PS2 for a while, my jaw did hit the floor when I first fired up Burnout 3. It felt next gen to me, like a clear step up from any game I'd played, technically. The sheer amount of stuff going on - huge, busy, detailed tracks with loads of effects and particles, brilliant physics, all whizzing by at 60fps. Stunning game. When I play it today I'm still awestruck it's running on the ps2.


    I share your thoughts Btw, regarding handling. The other half of the team thinks we should try and cram a basic weapon system in, but I've been persuading her it's the core handling and feel of the game that will make or break it, get repeat pays, make it spread etc. Plus with such little dev and testing time I can't imagine the weapon system being fun or balanced enough.

    I'll send you a link for sure when it's released, just remember it's a Flash game made by 2 people, so far more basic than any Wipeout or F-Zero ;)

    Got a Vita yesterday and played 2048, you guys are right, it's legit. Even more than Pulse, right off the bat it has a good sense of speed, and crisper, more precise handling that doesn't slow down as much on corners from wallow as most other Wipeouts. I really like it and it looks superb on the Vita's screen. Love the OTT trails on the ships too, adds to the sense of speed.

    If you fancy another Vita and 2048 I'd snap one up now while you can still get an OLED one :)

    Edited by rumblesushi at 13:35:56 12-10-2013
  • aros 23 Oct 2013 13:16:39 2,719 posts
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    I've redownloaded this on Sunday after buying Uncharted:GA on card to free up the 3.5gb and am really enjoying it. I liked what I played before but never got that into it due to space issues. I've almost finished 2048 (the race before moving to 2049 is available) and have liked it a lot.

    I've got the airbrakes set to L and R as suggested - can anyone give me some tips on using them please? I've scrolled through some of the thread but all I can see is the F-Zero vs Wipeout discussions, I'm in work so can't dedicate too much time to avoiding all of that!

    The graphics/speed really impress me despite it being such an early game - I think when i've played more it might even take over from Sonic as my favourite Vita racing game (although it's got a LONG way to go to do that at the moment.)
  • Razz 23 Oct 2013 13:51:40 61,002 posts
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    You can change the buttons? Thank God. I about to write thos game off as unplayable

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  • Feanor 23 Oct 2013 14:03:19 14,125 posts
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    You can't customize the controls in 2048, and the presets aren't designed very well. It was a sad way for the series to go out.
  • aros 23 Oct 2013 14:40:32 2,719 posts
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    With only one L and R button I don't know what set up you guys would have liked?
  • Deleted user 23 October 2013 17:03:20
    I would have liked custom buttons too, but I stick with just the default "Racer" where R is accelerate, and the square button is a 2 way airbrake.

    Excellent game, really much better than Wipeout HD. I've done a couple of races on 2049, and so far everything has been enjoyable, normal races, time trials, combat, and of course the zone races.

    For some reason I don't notice this being 30fps as much as some racers, partly because of the small screen perhaps? Either way it feels fast and resonsive, and I don't even see as much ghosting as usual.
  • FuzzyDuck 2 Nov 2013 13:52:55 4,003 posts
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    aros wrote:
    With only one L and R button I don't know what set up you guys would have liked?
    Yeah I don't get the argument that the presents (well, the "Racer" one at least) aren't very well designed. Apart from swapping fire and accelerate, there's nothing else to do with the controls.

    No idea how anyone plays Wipeout with a 1 button brake though! :D
  • jamesi 3 Nov 2013 03:16:28 200 posts
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    fired this up last night and loving it already.Stunning sound track,is this definitely the last ever wipeout? i think studio liverpool are no more seem to remember reading.Ps4 First Sony console to release without wipeout i think,and seems a real shame a game as good as this could be allowed to die.
  • aros 5 Nov 2013 10:08:53 2,719 posts
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    It is a really impressive game, I can sense i'm almost at the point where it will become too hard for me though.

    Completed Switch Galaxy last night (once through not everything or full stars etc) and it was getting way too fast for me at the end - my brain couldn't distinguish between the blue barriers and speed arrows at the pace it was moving. Looking forward to Switch Galaxy HD now.

    Jamesi - Switch Galaxy on PSM is by ex-Studio Liverpool devs so you might want to check that out. There's a Vita/PS4 native version coming soon too.

    Edited by aros at 10:10:11 05-11-2013
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