Megaupload Shut Down, 6 Arrests. Page 3

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  • INSOMANiAC 19 Jan 2012 21:24:53 3,842 posts
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    ecureuil wrote:
    INSOMANiAC wrote:
    The problem is we are breeding a generation of people who think it is acceptable to steal something so long as its off the internet and so long as its not a physical object.
    You do realise that's what they want you think, right?
    Ahh, the 'dirtbox defence'

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  • Deleted user 19 January 2012 21:25:38
    ecureuil wrote:
    INSOMANiAC wrote:
    The problem is we are breeding a generation of people who think it is acceptable to steal something so long as its off the internet and so long as its not a physical object.
    You do realise that's what they want you think, right?
    Glol, can't tell if serious.
  • FWB 19 Jan 2012 21:26:12 45,580 posts
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    I used to stream everything illegally across the net, but now that they offer decent streaming services at a reasonable cost, I don't. It also helps that I make money. Teenagers are always going to go for the free option. I think if you provide adults with a decent service that outclasses anything else and with a decent price, they will go for it. Fuck, I even pay for Xbox Live. Something years ago I would have found abhorrent. But it's well put together and does the job.

    It's all about providing a product of value.
  • Syrette 19 Jan 2012 21:27:24 44,211 posts
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    INSOMANiAC is missing the point here, spectacularly.

  • Dirtbox 19 Jan 2012 21:28:08 79,176 posts
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    Hilariously.

    +1 / Like / Tweet this post

  • INSOMANiAC 19 Jan 2012 21:28:35 3,842 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Such as buying a movie for 30 and being forced to sit through 10 minutes of being told how being a thief is bad.

    Such as not being able to play a game on your computer because you don't have a constant connection to the internet.

    Etc.
    These are various ways that these comapnies have attempted to slow the flow of relentless theft, they have tried many things and a lot have failed. Ulitmately it shows that other peoples stealing is resulting in a poorer user experience for people who actually pay. Also, I think you may not have purchased a DVD for a while because they now simply say 'thank you for buying this film and supporting the film industry' at the beginning.

    Persistent online connections are shite but who's fault is it they are there in the first place? Should the publisher just do nothing?

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  • INSOMANiAC 19 Jan 2012 21:29:50 3,842 posts
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    Syrette wrote:
    INSOMANiAC is missing the point here, spectacularly.
    Sadly, It's all of you who are missing the point, the point of places like Megaupload getting closed in the first place. Still, carry on with your conspiracy theories and ridiculous theories self entitlement and 'freedom' I'm obviously talking to a brick wall

    Edited by INSOMANiAC at 21:31:33 19-01-2012

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  • FWB 19 Jan 2012 21:30:04 45,580 posts
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    Geesh wrote:
    FWB wrote:
    Once home movie tech gets to the equivalent level of music production is now, this will all be a moot point. Hollywood will disappear.
    Years on from now, I might have to eat my words when I say this, but I doubt it will ever get to that stage, not in the foreseeable future at least. I'm guessing the tools are already available for those of us who can spend 2000 on a supremely powerful computer, but the problem would be the complexity of doing it. Although artistically a lot of people would argue that music can be just as complex (if not more so) as making say for example a CGI film, on a realistic level, it really isn't.
    I'm pretty sure you will eat your words. Technology is now increasing exponentially. The future is going to be amazing... assuming we don't all die. Which I don't think we will.

    What did two grand get you 20 years ago?
  • chopsen 19 Jan 2012 21:30:11 16,290 posts
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    Geesh wrote:
    FWB wrote:
    Once home movie tech gets to the equivalent level of music production is now, this will all be a moot point. Hollywood will disappear.
    Years on from now, I might have to eat my words when I say this, but I doubt it will ever get to that stage, not in the foreseeable future at least. I'm guessing the tools are already available for those of us who can spend 2000 on a supremely powerful computer, but the problem would be the complexity of doing it. Although artistically a lot of people would argue that music can be just as complex (if not more so) as making say for example a CGI film, on a realistic level, it really isn't.
    I think the truth lies somehere in between. The key thing is getting people with talent to spend a long period of time working together. Having an established industry and high profile names with a established business model attracts talented people in that field. Open-sourcing doesn't really produce high quality coherent complex projects.

    (nb I am posting this from a computer running linux, so I am a complete hypocrite)

    Edited by Chopsen at 21:31:31 19-01-2012
  • Deleted user 19 January 2012 21:30:19
    Put that crack pipe down, Insomaniac
  • Dirtbox 19 Jan 2012 21:30:24 79,176 posts
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    I'm repeating myself here, but when a pirate gets a better service than a paying customer, what is the alternative?

    And you're missing the point so hard it's painful.

    +1 / Like / Tweet this post

  • chopsen 19 Jan 2012 21:31:04 16,290 posts
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    FWB wrote:
    I'm pretty sure you will eat your words. Technology is now increasing exponentially. The future is going to be amazing... assuming we don't all die. Which I don't think we will.

    What did two grand get you 20 years ago?
    It's not about tech, it about talent and collaboration.
  • nickthegun 19 Jan 2012 21:31:55 61,294 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    Turns out that some super well respected hiphop producer was the head of MU.

    http://www.factmag.com/2012/01/19/swizz-beats-is-the-ceo-of-megaupload/
    FUN FACT: swizz beats is also the new face of Lotus. Yeah, the classic english sports car producers are chasing that market.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • FWB 19 Jan 2012 21:32:28 45,580 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    FWB wrote:
    I'm pretty sure you will eat your words. Technology is now increasing exponentially. The future is going to be amazing... assuming we don't all die. Which I don't think we will.

    What did two grand get you 20 years ago?
    It's not about tech, it about talent and collaboration.
    In that case my point is even more valid. There's plenty of it floating about. Plenty not attached to studios.

    It's only going to get easier and easier for two guys across the globe to work together and organise themselves into a coherent structure.

    Edited by FWB at 21:34:13 19-01-2012
  • INSOMANiAC 19 Jan 2012 21:33:45 3,842 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    I'm repeating myself here, but when a pirate gets a better service than a paying customer, what is the alternative?

    And you're missing the point so hard it's painful.
    So what exactly is the point? Please tell me.

    The fact paying custmers get a raw deal is exactly because of the thieves, yes the thieves get the better experience and they always will because they are enjoying free, DRM free stuff whenever they want, something that the game and film industry cannot offer. Its really not hard

    Steam - iN5OMANiAC
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  • chopsen 19 Jan 2012 21:34:24 16,290 posts
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    FWB wrote:
    In that case my point is even more valid. There's plenty of it floating about. Plenty not attached to studios.

    It's only going to get easier and easier for two guys across the globe to work together.
    But who's going to fund it, and make the investment prospect attractive by pledging a marketing budget?

    Edited by Chopsen at 21:34:45 19-01-2012
  • steoc4 19 Jan 2012 21:36:49 1,665 posts
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    Dirtbox wrote:
    I'm repeating myself here, but when a pirate gets a better service than a paying customer, what is the alternative?

    And you're missing the point so hard it's painful.
    That's a bit like saying it's ok to steal from Tescos if there's a queue. Running out the door is a better experience than waiting to pay after all.

    Aside from the fact that there are so many legal services out there now that the 'better experience' argument is a bit iffy anyway.
  • MrDigital 19 Jan 2012 21:37:25 1,866 posts
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    INSOMANiAC wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    Such as buying a movie for 30 and being forced to sit through 10 minutes of being told how being a thief is bad.

    Such as not being able to play a game on your computer because you don't have a constant connection to the internet.

    Etc.
    These are various ways that these comapnies have attempted to slow the flow of relentless theft, they have tried many things and a lot have failed. Ulitmately it shows that other peoples stealing is resulting in a poorer user experience for people who actually pay. Also, I think you may not have purchased a DVD for a while because they now simply say 'thank you for buying this film and supporting the film industry' at the beginning.

    Persistent online connections are shite but who's fault is it they are there in the first place? Should the publisher just do nothing?
    People go for the better option, generally I guess.

    In the period about a decade ago when piracy mostly gave you dodgy, bad quality DVDs, or 320x240 blurry streams, I would always just buy the DVD option. And that was when I was a teenager earning like 15 a week from a paper round.

    Likewise, I used to pirate music, but then Spotify came along and offered me a better service, so I started using that.

    There will undoubtedly be people who pirate solely for the reason of being tight (or maybe they just can't afford it anyway...), but it would be completely ignorant to rule out those who are simply looking for the best service, and at this moment in time, piracy often offers a far superior service to legal ways. And I'm not really going to hold it against Joe Bloggs if he chooses a better service because his morals don't make him feel bad about copying a film from a gargantuan-sized company.

    This is of course completely disregarding the more important and relevant argument that bills like this will cause a great deal of collateral damage when stopping piracy. Keep a thought for the normal Megaupload users who have lost a service, and likely a great deal of files because of this law which is meant to "combat piracy".

    Formerly TheStylishHobo and Geesh.

  • Deleted user 19 January 2012 21:37:41
    INSOMANiAC wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    I'm repeating myself here, but when a pirate gets a better service than a paying customer, what is the alternative?

    And you're missing the point so hard it's painful.
    So what exactly is the point? Please tell me.

    The fact paying custmers get a raw deal is exactly because of the thieves, yes the thieves get the better experience and they always will because they are enjoying free, DRM free stuff whenever they want, something that the game and film industry cannot offer. Its really not hard
    0_o
  • INSOMANiAC 19 Jan 2012 21:38:29 3,842 posts
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    steoc4 wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    I'm repeating myself here, but when a pirate gets a better service than a paying customer, what is the alternative?

    And you're missing the point so hard it's painful.
    That's a bit like saying it's ok to steal from Tescos if there's a queue. Running out the door is a better experience than waiting to pay after all.

    Aside from the fact that there are so many legal services out there now that the 'better experience' argument is a bit iffy anyway.

    You're pissing in the wind mate, I'm repeating myself here, but these people don't seem to understand cause and effect.

    Steam - iN5OMANiAC
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  • FWB 19 Jan 2012 21:39:27 45,580 posts
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    Funding costs will drop dramatically. It won't cost the millions it does today. Marketing costs... a valid point, but it doesn't need a Hollywood for that. Just investment firms.

    Besides, I think the future will see structured marketing becoming less relevant. A bloody cat playing a piano didn't need it.
  • INSOMANiAC 19 Jan 2012 21:39:53 3,842 posts
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    0_o do you have anything to add to this argument other than silly faces and insults? thought not.

    Steam - iN5OMANiAC
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  • Deleted user 19 January 2012 21:40:49
    INSOMANiAC wrote:
    do you have anything to add to this argument other than silly faces and insults? thought not.
    The music industry manage to supply without DRM just fine, in fact, iTunes sales increased massively as soon as DRM was removed.

    Edited by CrispyXUK at 21:41:26 19-01-2012
  • INSOMANiAC 19 Jan 2012 21:41:50 3,842 posts
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    Geesh wrote:
    INSOMANiAC wrote:
    Dirtbox wrote:
    Such as buying a movie for 30 and being forced to sit through 10 minutes of being told how being a thief is bad.

    Such as not being able to play a game on your computer because you don't have a constant connection to the internet.

    Etc.
    These are various ways that these comapnies have attempted to slow the flow of relentless theft, they have tried many things and a lot have failed. Ulitmately it shows that other peoples stealing is resulting in a poorer user experience for people who actually pay. Also, I think you may not have purchased a DVD for a while because they now simply say 'thank you for buying this film and supporting the film industry' at the beginning.

    Persistent online connections are shite but who's fault is it they are there in the first place? Should the publisher just do nothing?
    People go for the better option, generally I guess.

    In the period about a decade ago when piracy mostly gave you dodgy, bad quality DVDs, or 320x240 blurry streams, I would always just buy the DVD option. And that was when I was a teenager earning like 15 a week from a paper round.

    Likewise, I used to pirate music, but then Spotify came along and offered me a better service, so I started using that.

    There will undoubtedly be people who pirate solely for the reason of being tight (or maybe they just can't afford it anyway...), but it would be completely ignorant to rule out those who are simply looking for the best service, and at this moment in time, piracy often offers a far superior service to legal ways. And I'm not really going to hold it against Joe Bloggs if he chooses a better service because his morals don't make him feel bad about copying a film from a gargantuan-sized company.

    This is of course completely disregarding the more important and relevant argument that bills like this will cause a great deal of collateral damage when stopping piracy. Keep a thought for the normal Megaupload users who have lost a service, and likely a great deal of files because of this law which is meant to "combat piracy".
    And this is exactly what I mean when I say piracy has become socially aceeptable. In my opinion it is never going to be possible for the film or game industry to offer a service which (the majority of pirates) is more attractive than something for free. You say you used to pirate music then changed to spotify because it offered a better service. I say you are in a tiny minority.

    Steam - iN5OMANiAC
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  • FWB 19 Jan 2012 21:43:16 45,580 posts
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    If I took myself as an example, I'd say he isn't. Most of my mates did exactly the same thing.

    Can you produce some sources to back yourself, because at the moment your comments say more about YOUR mindset and attitude towards purchasing behaviour than it does ours.

    Edited by FWB at 21:45:24 19-01-2012
  • INSOMANiAC 19 Jan 2012 21:44:05 3,842 posts
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    CrispyXUK wrote:
    INSOMANiAC wrote:
    do you have anything to add to this argument other than silly faces and insults? thought not.
    The music industry manage to supply without DRM just fine, in fact, iTunes sales increased massively as soon as DRM was removed.
    I cited itunes earlier as a factor in the saviour of the music industry. A 99p song and a 40.00 game are two different entities and you cannot apply the same DRM rules to each one, Production costs, RRP and server costs alone make comparing the two pretty silly.

    Steam - iN5OMANiAC
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  • chopsen 19 Jan 2012 21:44:49 16,290 posts
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    @INSOMANiAC

    The point that people are making is not that pirating offers a better experience because you don't have to pay, but that people who are happy or want to pay are actively disadvantaged in a way that does not effect those that chose not to.

    People are broadly happy to pay, but they're actually being made to suffer inconvenience as *well* as being out of pocket. The people who pirate are unaffected.

    There's no reason content providers couldn't do more to incentivise people to spend money through innovative delivery or services (e.g. Spotify, Netflix), but instead they spend their efforts making the experience of paying customers inferior (DRM, forced adverts, region locking, etc).

    I've said the same thing 3 times here.

    Edited by Chopsen at 21:45:28 19-01-2012
  • Machetazo 19 Jan 2012 21:45:44 6,372 posts
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    If publishers aren't helping themselves, then why should I bust a gut to help them? (such as buying an import media device, and checking suitability each and every time I want to enjoy content, and probably paying more than equivalent local cost each time)
  • INSOMANiAC 19 Jan 2012 21:48:38 3,842 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    @INSOMANiAC

    The point that people are making is not that pirating offers a better experience because you don't have to pay, but that people who are happy or want to pay are actively disadvantaged in a way that does not effect those that chose not to.

    People are broadly happy to pay, but they're actually being made to suffer inconvenience as *well* as being out of pocket. The people who pirate are unaffected.

    There's no reason content providers couldn't do more to incentivise people to spend money through innovative delivery or services (e.g. Spotify, Netflix), but instead they spend their efforts making the experience of paying customers inferior (DRM, forced adverts, region locking, etc).

    I've said the same thing 3 times here.
    I have fully accepted that paying customers get a worse deal than pirates, that is not in question. Cause and effect. The piracy in the first place is hte cause of the DRM etc. Forced adverts are in the minority now. If you can suggest a way other than those already available that games makers can make a game that is DRM free and yet still protect it from piracy, and that doesnt involve being digital only, I would like to hear it

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  • Khanivor 19 Jan 2012 21:49:41 41,254 posts
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    CrispyXUK wrote:
    INSOMANiAC wrote:
    do you have anything to add to this argument other than silly faces and insults? thought not.
    The music industry manage to supply without DRM just fine, in fact, iTunes sales increased massively as soon as DRM was removed.
    In other words, the entertainment industry is adapting to the new reality. Slowly, sure, but what do you expect? Five years ago pretty much your only option was to buy physical media or steal digital media. Now you can legitimately buy almost anything in digital form, either to own or to rent.

    I've seen a few small films that have been released to cable On Demand at the same time as they hit the theatres. Not big films but the water is being tested there as well.

    People still steal shit though, even with the great expansion in legal ways to own media. I can't really fault the people who paid for that stuff to try and shit down illicit ways of obtaining it. Unless, of course, they try to employ a sledgehammer to crack a nut. SOPA and PIPA are examples of this. Shutting down Megaupload seems to me a good example of a reasonable way of shutting down an illegal outlet. Of course there are already plenty of alternatives but I'm at a loss to think of another example of law breaking where people are left to commit/facilitate crimes based simply on the fact other people are at it too.
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