The Kill List thread Page 4

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  • HarryPalmer 10 Apr 2012 14:16:11 3,427 posts
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    Good film. No idea what bionic_v2 is on about, but I guess he likes it that way. You can interpret it in many different ways, and that's a credit to the director.
  • Deckard1 10 Apr 2012 14:30:46 28,764 posts
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    Not really. It's surprisingly easy to make something that can be interpreted in many different ways if its just a load of incoherent bollocks. Watch

    There was this man right and he was made out of apples. Or was he? Yes. One day the apples left him and all that was left was the space where that apple man used to be. Did he really exist? For how can a man made of apples exist if there are no apples?



    That was about my feelings on the war in Iraq.
  • HarryPalmer 10 Apr 2012 14:48:30 3,427 posts
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    Well yes, but there is a difference between reading between the lines of a deliberately oblique film and talking nonsense, albeit not a very distinct one.
  • Nanocrystal 10 Apr 2012 14:51:04 1,087 posts
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    @Deckard1
    You're spot on! I'm interpreting your post as an unfunny, ill-conceived pile of wank from someone lacking in wit, intelligence, or anything relevant or meaningful to contribute. And who was eating an apple at the time of posting.

    Edited by Nanocrystal at 14:51:32 10-04-2012
  • Deckard1 10 Apr 2012 14:53:13 28,764 posts
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    Really? You're gonna get that angry over this piece of shit movie? Ok good luck with that.
  • Nanocrystal 10 Apr 2012 14:54:52 1,087 posts
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    Was going for snobby superiority rather than anger.
  • chopsen 10 Apr 2012 14:55:57 16,127 posts
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    Thing is, I'm not really convinced that Kill List knew what it wanted to be. Being "deliberately oblique" is one thing, but Kill List seemed to throw lots of obscure red-herrings in that really served no purpose (the strange tones in which Kiev was mentioned, the way visual themes are repeated throughout the film for no apparent reason). It was just not particularly internally consistent. That, of course, is consistent with "it's all a dream"/"he's just nuts" but that is a complete cop-out.

    I keep saying this, but everybody should watch "The Bothersome Man" for weirdness that seems genuinely bonkers and at the same time completely coherent.
  • Deckard1 10 Apr 2012 14:59:29 28,764 posts
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    Exactly. There's just no coherency to it. It's just bollocks. It could mean anything, and it just ends up meaning nothing because of that. I like films that need to be figured out, but when its blatantly apparent the film maker doesn't even know what its about that's when it crosses the line into "bollocks".
  • nickthegun 10 Apr 2012 15:03:07 60,605 posts
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    Kill List is a perfect example of the shit style of japanese storytelling you always see in their films, weirdly. In fact, its so consistent it almost seems like a deliberate aping of that awful way of telling a story.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Nanocrystal 10 Apr 2012 15:10:19 1,087 posts
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    Film as a medium can be about far more than just "telling a story". If you don't like abstract stuff fine, but that doesn't mean it's bollocks. It's a pretty narrow-minded view of the medium.
  • Genji 10 Apr 2012 15:12:26 19,689 posts
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    I dunno, it seemed pretty clear-cut to me. The general plot, the slow descent into madness, everything. I also think that the last bit in the sewers is one of the tensest, scariest things I've seen in a film in some time.

    So yeah, I really liked it. I never knew what to expect, and found the general hopeless, spiralling-down atmosphere of it very effective.
  • HarryPalmer 10 Apr 2012 15:14:58 3,427 posts
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    Genji wrote:
    I dunno, it seemed pretty clear-cut to me. The general plot, the slow descent into madness, everything. I also think that the last bit in the sewers is one of the tensest, scariest things I've seen in a film in some time.

    So yeah, I really liked it. I never knew what to expect, and found the general hopeless, spiralling-down atmosphere of it very effective.
    THIS.
  • Deckard1 10 Apr 2012 15:15:17 28,764 posts
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    The thing is, the film just stinks of cop out. It's the type of film that people of low intelligence get behind because they think it has some higher meaning, while anyone of intelligence can see it's just a badly constructed, poorly thought out turd, that the talentless fuck who wrote it didn't know how to end properly.

    Hey look at that, I can be a prick too.
  • nickthegun 10 Apr 2012 15:18:10 60,605 posts
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    Nanocrystal wrote:
    Film as a medium can be about far more than just "telling a story". If you don't like abstract stuff fine, but that doesn't mean it's bollocks. It's a pretty narrow-minded view of the medium.
    Yeah, it does. Abstract is fine but in this instance its just an excuse for it being shit.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • chopsen 10 Apr 2012 15:20:47 16,127 posts
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    Nanocrystal wrote:
    Film as a medium can be about far more than just "telling a story". If you don't like abstract stuff fine, but that doesn't mean it's bollocks. It's a pretty narrow-minded view of the medium.
    As it happens, I went to the pub the other night with someone who, after we got back, insisted on us all watching Koyaanisqatsi. He insisted on everybody paying attention, even getting narked is someone checked their phone. I'm sure it's got its place and everything, but fuck me it was boring.
  • nickthegun 10 Apr 2012 15:24:10 60,605 posts
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    What do you need to pay attention for? Its like watching a screen saver for 90 minutes.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • chopsen 10 Apr 2012 15:26:18 16,127 posts
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    aaaand actually, there's a lot about KL that I like. It's got a lot of old fashioned horror in it - very down to Earth kitchen sink type setting with menacing undertones (Exorcist, Rosemary's Baby, even the old Hammer House of Horror TV series). In that respect, the ending is a pay off that *nearly* makes it worth it. It's done with a very contemporary style which makes it all the more engaging.

    But I really do feel that a lot of the incoherence stems not really knowing what it was supposed to be. Kind of like "first novel syndrome" it was if they took everything they liked the sound of and threw it together, hoping it will stick.
  • Nanocrystal 10 Apr 2012 15:27:44 1,087 posts
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    @Deckard1
    OK, I lowered the discussion to insults and I apologise.

    But from what I understand your criticism stems from the point of view that a film needs to lack ambiguity and have a specific meaning to be successful, and that the director was intending for Kill List to be this way and failed in that regard. Which is bullshit. It's totally obvious that the movie is intentionally left open to interpretation, "deliberately oblique" as HarryPalmer said above. Therefore, "it's incoherent" isn't really a valid criticism in my opinion. As I said, if you simply don't like that kind of movie, fair enough.
  • nickthegun 10 Apr 2012 15:30:20 60,605 posts
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    I actually think they knew what they were doing, to be honest. Everything smacks of being completely intentional and done with the best intentions.

    It just didnt work, sadly.

    I agree that large parts of it were pretty good, it just shat itself in the final third.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    My man gives real loving that's why I call him Killer
    He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thriller

  • Deckard1 10 Apr 2012 15:51:10 28,764 posts
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    There's too many plotholes/unexplained occurrences for the cult thing to make any sense, therefore the only viable explanation of the film is that he's mental/dreaming/in a coma/all of the above. Which is a massive fucking cop out.

    Normally I wouldn't be bothered, but as I said early, I was enjoying the film a lot up until the end, so the film left me with the feeling that I'd just had a lap dance off the most beautiful woman in the world, only for her to take of her pants and reveal a wart ridden shriveled cock.
  • HarryPalmer 10 Apr 2012 16:01:44 3,427 posts
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    Fair enough. I thought it was good and I enjoyed the mental ending, not sure why if it isn't one thing it has to be the other.
  • LeoliansBro 10 Apr 2012 16:05:21 44,551 posts
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    I liked this. Remimded me of Dead Man's Shoes.

    LB, you really are a massive geek.

  • DFawkes 25 Mar 2013 00:55:37 23,428 posts
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    I'm jjust watching this just now. Should've probably posted before it started to let anyone interested know, but I forgot. Sorry!

    So the way I see it, it's about the cult marking (literally, by the back of the mirror and his hand) Jay as the successor for leadership, them making him commit murders as a part of the ritual to become that leader. At the end, he's free of the things that tied him to his previous life and become the leader.

    I did notice wake up stuff, but it felt like a red herring.


    Still not really sure what the heck I just watched. I actually quite liked the last third too.

    Oh for goodness sake, I've caught my scrotum in my zip again - Margaret Thatcher, 1986

  • mal 25 Mar 2013 01:05:39 22,724 posts
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    'salright, Tom S flagged it in the 'film starting on tv' thread. I suspect you're right about the ending. First couple of times I saw it I was too taken aback by the ending to consider it could be a happy ending.

    Still, not sure it works too well as a disguised meaning film that reveals itself on multiple watches - it's too ambiguous for that. Down Terrace works better in that respect for me - the ending is what it is, and on further viewings, you can see the deranged built-up for what it is.

    Not seen Sightseers yet, though from what I hear that has a much more straightforward narrative. But then practically anything has a more straightforward narrative than Kill List.

    Cubby didn't know how to turn off sigs!

  • Phattso Moderator 26 Mar 2013 03:57:57 13,613 posts
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    Watched this last night - I really enjoyed the 70s flavah and tension the film built up. I got the impression all the way through that I was seeing a mashup of lots of things I'd seen before, but in a good way. Whoever it was above that likened it to the Hammer House of Horror TV show was bang on the mark, and I loved it for that.

    The last third, while not sitting quite right, wasn't enough to spoil the show for me.

    I'm definitely more in line with the idea that Jay is being groomed for the cult leadership, and maybe complicit subconsciously (I reckon the PTSD angle is feeding in here: even cultist nutters can have mental disorders) than it was all a dream/coma/whatever.

    I'd never seen anything else by the director, but I think I'll check out Down Terrace and Sightseers now.
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