The Kill List thread Page 2

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  • Deleted user 4 January 2012 15:23:41
    Shel says that Sam has had a nightmare about the cat. Fiona gives something to Sam and then appears to be shadowing the family appearing outside the hotel after the dude is.

    Also after Jay visit's the doctor there's a scene with a lot of jump cuts and show's Gal looking through the Kiev folder and an envelope. We see a drawing of an executioner symbolizing Jay as the cult's tool and explaining why the victims thank him. Gal seems act more as the moral conscience. A small card with the cult symbol is also seen briefly.

    The last meeting with the clients hint's that Jay and Gal have always being working under the Cult and maybe they are trying to reconstruct Kiev.

    Also backtracking for a moment Gal says "At least it's not a toddler" before the priest could this be what's haunting Jay and if it is it echoes the end as well.

    Also good interview with the direcor here.

    Interview

    Edited by WeakOrbit at 15:24:22 04-01-2012
  • Blaketown 16 Jan 2012 09:28:22 4,645 posts
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    Bollocks. I thought there might be more discussion in here as to what the fuck was going on.

    My head was spinning last night trying to piece together what I had just seen.

    So the fundamentals that they were hired to kill people by some sort of (suicide) cult is relatively clear and that he is being controlled by said cult using witchcraft seems clear too.

    Everything else seems to lead my mind in circles and down blind alleys. It feels like a coherent explanation is there but just tantalisingly out of reach.

    I guess it could be pure allegory and that is why a lot of the standard narrative loose ends don't tie up.

    Brap, brap, old chap.

  • Deckard1 16 Jan 2012 09:32:22 27,770 posts
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    You explained it all in the very first word of your post.

    Hush you ponce

  • Chopsen 16 Jan 2012 09:39:13 15,885 posts
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    Bollocks to spoilers. Read at your peril


    It is, as you say a cult. The whole "kill list" is an elaborate ritual that involves the symbolic induction of the main character in to the cult. Central to the cult is the idea that it is a privileged to be killed by him specifically (the priest says "thank you" the porn merchant is grateful to be beaten up and the leader of the ritual in the last job opens his arms welcomingly(sp?) when he hears gun-fire), so I guess he is a chosen one in some sense.

    The only issues I'm a bit unclear on is the role of the wife, and how much she knows.
  • bionic_v2 16 Jan 2012 09:40:49 116 posts
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    Kill List 25% out of 100% Blu-ray

    With ***** all over the cover I expected good things. It is ok at best. It feels like a film from the 1970s filmed using a Hi-Def home video camera. It looks made for TV. The story wasn't all that either. The end was kinda shit.

    Spent £15 on this bollocks today, and to think I was going to buy Silent Running from 1971, as that looks interesting.

    It is safe to say I will never watch Kill List again. Any suggestions as to what I should do with the Blu-ray ?
    Maybe I should stand in HMV and sell it to someone for £5
  • Chopsen 16 Jan 2012 09:46:39 15,885 posts
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    Didn't you do that exact post, word for word, in another thread?

    Are you a robot?
  • Blaketown 16 Jan 2012 09:58:23 4,645 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    The only issues I'm a bit unclear on is the role of the wife, and how much she knows.
    And him too.

    There are loads of indications that they are both complicit in it all but then they both also behave in a way that indicate they aren't. She certainly behaves like she is offering up her son and reacts like she knew what was coming when he is dead. But then why is she defending the cottage 2 minutes earlier?

    Also, "reconstruction"? Are we talking about a corporate reconstruction (of the cult) perhaps? As indicated by the HR discussion. Or maybe it is him who is being reconstructed, after whatever happened in Kiev has clearly mentally destabilised him, possibly in such a way that he no longer remembers his role in the cult.

    Everything from the editing to the repeating "wake up" indicate his mental state is key to this but I think it all being a dream is definitely a non-starter.

    Need a second viewing clearly.

    Edited by Blaketown at 10:02:49 16-01-2012

    Brap, brap, old chap.

  • Chopsen 16 Jan 2012 10:19:01 15,885 posts
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    I don't think the "wake up" thing needs to be taken literally, as you can view it as a religious awakening, which is more consistent with the rest. There's nothing else to suggest that this is all fantasy/a dream state.

    The Kiev thing I think is a red herring. There's not enough info given there to make anything of it. Maybe he just a killed a fuckton of people there, and this is what initially alerted the death cult to his suitability for recruitment.
  • Blaketown 16 Jan 2012 10:22:28 4,645 posts
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    Yeah I know the specifics of Kiev are unimportant just the repercussions.

    Brap, brap, old chap.

  • Chopsen 16 Jan 2012 10:29:05 15,885 posts
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    By the way, if like films that make you go "Well what the fuck was *that* all about?" I can seriously recommend The Bothersome Man.
  • Blaketown 16 Jan 2012 10:36:51 4,645 posts
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    I've looked at that before and never got round to seeing it. Might move it up the list if it is good.

    Brap, brap, old chap.

  • Max_Powers 16 Jan 2012 11:06:12 1,098 posts
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    I liked it. Didn't know anything about the film before viewing. It moves from being some sort of bleak relationship drama to occult thriller in a very good way.

    Loved the directing as well. Violence was a bit cringeworthy though.

    My take, the cultish set-up becomes clear from the dinner party and the marking on the back of the mirror. There is the element of post traumatic stress with the main victim, mental black out, some (I assumed wet works military) operation in Kiev. The welcoming behaviour of the victims death make the main characters role ambigious like he is already part of the cult or they know that someone has been send to kill them and dying by violence is a cultish thing. Plot drifts somewhere in the middle of all that.

    The only thing of the cults behaviour I can't explain is that they all try to attack him in the sewer at the end.
  • nickthegun 16 Jan 2012 11:21:16 59,525 posts
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    Chopsen wrote:
    I don't think the "wake up" thing needs to be taken literally, as you can view it as a religious awakening, which is more consistent with the rest. There's nothing else to suggest that this is all fantasy/a dream state.
    There are a number of things he sees or does in his day to day life that are then transformed into grotesque versions later on in the film, which is a fairly good indicator that he is warping things in some way.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
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  • Chopsen 16 Jan 2012 11:36:23 15,885 posts
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    Max_Powers wrote:
    The only thing of the cults behaviour I can't explain is that they all try to attack him in the sewer at the end.
    Ooh yeah, and that. I had a problem with that as well.

    My (not quite satisfactory) answer to that is they're rushing him in the hope that they will get killed by him. They don't (iirc) actually attack *him* at all - they just run towards him, hoping he will kill them,

    They attack his friend because he's a threat, and don't want to be killed by him.

    @nick

    I didn't notice/can't remember anything like that. Can you give any examples?
    Not a fan of "it was all a dream" anyway and it's a shit cop-out, so I'm ignoring them even if you can remember some
  • nickthegun 16 Jan 2012 11:49:15 59,525 posts
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    Ottomh, the cult, the guts and the final fight are all foreshadowed in some way by the playfights, the rabbits and the christians in the hotel.

    You also see him repeatedly taking unspecified pills.

    I dunno, in a lot of ways its my rationalisation for trying to make sense of a film that committed suicide in act three.

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  • Blaketown 16 Jan 2012 11:52:55 4,645 posts
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    The play sword fight in the garden exactly mirrors the end fight. The child is even on her back.

    But I thought that was more foreshadowing than an indicator he is manufacturing the whole thing in his head.

    Edit: Beat me to it.

    Edited by Blaketown at 11:54:54 16-01-2012

    Brap, brap, old chap.

  • Chopsen 16 Jan 2012 11:58:49 15,885 posts
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    Oh yeah, that's true that is.

    I think there may be an element of the filmmakers not actually knowing *what* the film is really about, and just hedging their bets by just putting lots of "weird stuff" and seeing if it stuck. I do think it's more Rosemary's Baby rather than Jacobs Ladder though.
  • nickthegun 16 Jan 2012 12:05:33 59,525 posts
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    I would prefer it to be literal. Total Recall was kind of spoiled for me when I found out it was all in arnies head.

    SPOILER

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  • localnotail 16 Jan 2012 12:34:20 23,093 posts
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    He is the Angel of Death. The time of Purification is at hand.

    I liked it, it had a very 70s nihilistic visceral feel to it.

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  • bionic_v2 16 Jan 2012 19:08:05 116 posts
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    Reading comments here and other places, has made me realise Kill List is attempting to be clever, all the while failing at an epic level at doing what it should do as a film, sell it to the viewer, entertain the viewer, tell a half decent story. Maybe I got the film, maybe I didn’t get the film. Here’s how I viewed it:

    Ex army bloke has issues, as a result of being in a war zone.
    Personally anyone who joins the army has mental issues, but that’s neither here nor there.

    The Channel 4 logo and the National Lottery Logo at the start didn’t exactly get my hopes up. I thought, here we go, its going to be one of *those* films.

    The opening scenes set inside a typical boring house on an estate, screamed *small* and *low budget*. That a side, I thought I’d stick with it, and give it a chance.

    For the first half an hour the whole film looks really amateur. It looks and sounds like a film made with a Hi-Def camera. The acting isn’t exactly great. It wasn’t even shi--y soap opera level. The part where they are all sitting around a table eating food felt awkward, poorly made.

    The human resources woman gets up and carves a symbol on the back of a mirror. Who’s benefit is that for? the viewer - just to let them know she’s a part of some weirdness ?

    Things improve slightly when the killing begins. They do a couple of blokes in. Again, is all filmed inside houses etc, adding to the low budget feel.

    Then the cult bit kicks in. Where’s the cult get its money ? Why are the cult paying 2 blokes to kill people for large sums of money ?

    Why would two blokes armed with guns run from a bunch of mask wearing naked people ?
    Sure they shoot a few of them, then decide to run underground ?
    Wouldn’t it have made more sense to stay above ground and kill them all. It wasn’t like there was that many of them anyway ?

    At the end of the film, it just gets ridiculous. The lead bloke steps outside only to be faced with the cult and a nice neat arrangement of flames on poles ? The wife’s handy with a gun ? ..and we all know what happens next. Stupid!

    The one theme that runs through the film is: those being killed want to be killed ? Are happy to be killed, why ? what’s the logic ?

    I have read, possibly none of the above happens, and its all just a bunch of random thoughts on behalf of the lead character who is suffering from the effects of going to war. I don’t really agree with answer.
  • localnotail 16 Jan 2012 19:34:32 23,093 posts
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    bionic_v2 wrote:
    The Channel 4 logo and the National Lottery Logo at the start didn’t exactly get my hopes up.
    Lost me right here. Channel 4 have helped to make many excellent films. Low budget does not mean low quality any more than high budget means high quality. An inability to understand this means I have no interest in your opinion on film.

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  • beastmaster 16 Jan 2012 20:57:29 11,338 posts
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    A film that splits audiences and opinions? A film that leaves you asking more questions than knowing answers?

    Give that to me anytime time over a "wrapped up in a fucking bow sweety and here's all the loose ends tied up thank you very much" piece of fucking shit film that now seems to be the norm.

    The Resident Evil films. I'm one of the reasons they keep making them.

  • Chopsen 16 Jan 2012 22:58:08 15,885 posts
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    Yeah, by the sounds of it you'd be more at home reading the assembly instructions for some flat-pack furniture.
  • Derblington 16 Jan 2012 23:25:13 21,503 posts
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    I don't see the appeal to this one, I thought it was close to terrible. I don't really care if I understand it all, Jay was a cunt from the start to the end and I couldn't give a toss about whether he was a nutjob or not.

    The only character that was anywhere near likeable was Gal, and only for his sense of humour and caring for Shel, but that was offset by the fact that he was a contract killer and bit of a nob.

    If the director intended the first half an hour of character relationships and development to build some kind of link and caring between the viewer and the people on-screen he might need to learn how to write some likeable or at least relatable characters in the first place.

    It was a film about a group of twats that violently argue constantly because the biggest twat was a bit of a write-off of human evolution. He then killed a priest and some even bigger twats, only to be responsible for the death of the rest of the original group of twats, leaving himself standing at the films close. 5 stars.

    The whole hammer scene in the middle, while setting an uneasy tone, wasn't shot particularly well and all the violence, with the exception of the hand cutting, just looked cheap and fake. The hand cut only really worked because it looked decent for all of the second of screen time and that it was completely unexpected.
  • Oh-Bollox 16 Jan 2012 23:31:19 5,216 posts
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    Personally anyone who joins the army has mental issues, but that’s neither here nor there.
    Unnecessary, if not outright cuntish.

    The opening scenes set inside a typical boring house on an estate, screamed *small* and *low budget*. That a side, I thought I’d stick with it, and give it a chance.
    You're using 'small' and 'low budget' as derogatory terms, as if they're bad things. They're not. And it's set inside a typical housing estate for a reason.

    It wasn’t even shi--y soap opera level.
    Who are you editing the swears out of your post for?

    The part where they are all sitting around a table eating food felt awkward, poorly made.
    It should feel awkward, it's a middle class dinner party with three old friends and one new addition.

    Again, is all filmed inside houses etc, adding to the low budget feel.
    Why should it be filmed elsewhere, and why should this be done just to give it a bigger budget 'feel'? Why are you going to chase a bloke through an airport and kill 500 coppers before getting to the target on the roof, when you can whack him at home. Bizarre criticism.

    Where’s the cult get its money ? Why are the cult paying 2 blokes to kill people for large sums of money ?
    If MPs are members, money isn't going to be far away. I think you can probably assume the cult is interested in money, power, etc to spread its influence, if for no other reason. The hits, (if I counted the money right) aren't even that well paid, they're not retiring on this job.

    Why would two blokes armed with guns run from a bunch of mask wearing naked people ?
    Sure they shoot a few of them, then decide to run underground ?
    Wouldn’t it have made more sense to stay above ground and kill them all. It wasn’t like there was that many of them anyway ?
    They're not being paid to do it, the assault rifle is discarded as either out of ammo or jammed, so they're left with a shotgun and pistols with probably not a lot of ammo, not suitable for repelling a large group. See things like the Tueller Drill for why hand to hand can beat firearms. They're there to kill a man and get out, not massacre a group.

    If they have to fall back, then underground (which is their escape route anyway) is actually a good choice as any cultists chasing them will be channelled into narrow passages and cannot attack from 360 degrees. Witness Gal's pump-action blowing them all to fuck when they come at him one after the other.

    The lead bloke steps outside only to be faced with the cult and a nice neat arrangement of flames on poles ?
    If the cult has done their research on him (they have), they know about his other house.

    The wife’s handy with a gun ?
    Military service, explicitly mentioned in the film.

    The one theme that runs through the film is: those being killed want to be killed ? Are happy to be killed, why ? what’s the logic ?
    It's probably pointless to bother telling you, but I will try. One possible solution is that Jay is being inducted into the cult. The only way he can do that is by killing certain people. If he's going to become an important member of the cult, these certain people could be cultists who would be only too happy to sacrifice their own lives for an objective they fervently believe in.

    It's far from a perfect film, there are legitimate criticisms that can be made, but "It's low budget and it didn't tell me everything in huge chunks of exposition." is a bit silly.
  • bionic_v2 17 Jan 2012 18:23:36 116 posts
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    Oh-Bollox wrote:
    Personally anyone who joins the army has mental issues, but that’s neither here nor there.
    Unnecessary, if not outright cuntish.

    The opening scenes set inside a typical boring house on an estate, screamed *small* and *low budget*. That a side, I thought I’d stick with it, and give it a chance.
    You're using 'small' and 'low budget' as derogatory terms, as if they're bad things. They're not. And it's set inside a typical housing estate for a reason.

    It wasn’t even shi--y soap opera level.
    Who are you editing the swears out of your post for?

    The part where they are all sitting around a table eating food felt awkward, poorly made.
    It should feel awkward, it's a middle class dinner party with three old friends and one new addition.

    Again, is all filmed inside houses etc, adding to the low budget feel.
    Why should it be filmed elsewhere, and why should this be done just to give it a bigger budget 'feel'? Why are you going to chase a bloke through an airport and kill 500 coppers before getting to the target on the roof, when you can whack him at home. Bizarre criticism.

    Where’s the cult get its money ? Why are the cult paying 2 blokes to kill people for large sums of money ?
    If MPs are members, money isn't going to be far away. I think you can probably assume the cult is interested in money, power, etc to spread its influence, if for no other reason. The hits, (if I counted the money right) aren't even that well paid, they're not retiring on this job.

    Why would two blokes armed with guns run from a bunch of mask wearing naked people ?
    Sure they shoot a few of them, then decide to run underground ?
    Wouldn’t it have made more sense to stay above ground and kill them all. It wasn’t like there was that many of them anyway ?
    They're not being paid to do it, the assault rifle is discarded as either out of ammo or jammed, so they're left with a shotgun and pistols with probably not a lot of ammo, not suitable for repelling a large group. See things like the Tueller Drill for why hand to hand can beat firearms. They're there to kill a man and get out, not massacre a group.

    If they have to fall back, then underground (which is their escape route anyway) is actually a good choice as any cultists chasing them will be channelled into narrow passages and cannot attack from 360 degrees. Witness Gal's pump-action blowing them all to fuck when they come at him one after the other.

    The lead bloke steps outside only to be faced with the cult and a nice neat arrangement of flames on poles ?
    If the cult has done their research on him (they have), they know about his other house.

    The wife’s handy with a gun ?
    Military service, explicitly mentioned in the film.

    The one theme that runs through the film is: those being killed want to be killed ? Are happy to be killed, why ? what’s the logic ?
    It's probably pointless to bother telling you, but I will try. One possible solution is that Jay is being inducted into the cult. The only way he can do that is by killing certain people. If he's going to become an important member of the cult, these certain people could be cultists who would be only too happy to sacrifice their own lives for an objective they fervently believe in.

    It's far from a perfect film, there are legitimate criticisms that can be made, but "It's low budget and it didn't tell me everything in huge chunks of exposition." is a bit silly.

    It probably is pointless, but I’m all ears, as Kill List is far more entertaining to talk about than to watch, and there lies the problem. Its like pictures put to words, words that represent a puzzle, to keep people guessing, wondering. Pictures that fail to tell a story worth investing time in. A film people want to pull apart, dissect out of annoyance.

    The part where the human resources woman carves a symbol into the back of a mirror. What’s that about ? Its like it had no place in the film other than to let the viewer know that she’s apart of something weird, a cult we would learn about later in the film. The actual act of carving something into a mirror on the back, hidden, seems pointless.

    When I read about the film on the rear of the Blu-ray cover, I was expecting something great, possibly a film about hitmen, who become paranoid of one another for whatever reason. Total intensity. Instead, the film throws the cult thing into the mix, at which point the film became sh-t. The film starts of look average. Half way through when the killing starts, it gets better. Then its all down hill for there on in.

    It took me back to an equally boring, crap, warped film A Serbian Film. Two brothers shagging people covered in sheets, then comes the *big reveal* pull back the sheet, and it turns out dads screwing son, while brother screws other brothers wife next to him. Shocking stuff, warped, ultimately and long boring crap film.

    Edited by bionic_v2 at 18:29:00 17-01-2012
  • AccidentProne 17 Jan 2012 18:26:26 1,162 posts
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    Well, thanks for spoiling A Serbian Film for me, should I ever pluck up the courage to watch the thing...
  • bionic_v2 17 Jan 2012 18:32:33 116 posts
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    AccidentProne wrote:
    Well, thanks for spoiling A Serbian Film for me, should I ever pluck up the courage to watch the thing...
    There's nothing to spoil. Its such a bland film. The one scene I mentioned really couldn't spoil your enjoyment. Its crap.
  • AccidentProne 17 Jan 2012 18:33:38 1,162 posts
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    For what it's worth, I thought Kill List was amazing. Had an awesomely unsettling atmosphere and I thought the acting was decent too, seemed very naturalistic (I think a lot of it was improvised?). Didn't feel at all cheated by the ending and don't particularly want everything spelled out for me. Looking forward to re-watching it with some friends and drunkenly dissecting the thing afterwards.
  • Derblington 17 Jan 2012 19:13:02 21,503 posts
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    The acting was good in regards to portraying the various relationships that Jay had.
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