Public Sector Strikes

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  • TheSaint 28 Nov 2011 12:12:42 14,201 posts
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    So any of the EG public sector lot striking on Wednesday?

    Sounds like it won't be all bad for the economy as I know quite a few teachers who are looking forward to a day of Christmas shopping. Although I'm not quite sure that's what the unions had in mind.

    On the other hand I won't be impressed if as proposed everyone starts bringing their annoying children into the office. Probably a good day to work from home.
  • Fab4 28 Nov 2011 12:18:04 5,980 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    So any of the EG public sector lot striking on Wednesday?

    Sounds like it won't be all bad for the economy as I know quite a few teachers who are looking forward to a day of Christmas shopping. Although I'm not quite sure that's what the unions had in mind.

    On the other hand I won't be impressed if as proposed everyone starts bringing their annoying children into the office. Probably a good day to work from home.
    Probably a lot of the staff in those shops they plan to go shopping in will be off, looking after their kids who would normally have been in school.

    I don't really see why they are complaining. I've worked and paid for a private pension for the last 17 years and I could only dream of ending up with a pension most of them will end up with.
  • Deleted user 28 November 2011 12:30:56
    My lass is striking. She's in a union and her entire school are striking, including management that arent affected by it. So she couldnt not strike if she didnt want to without it looking bad (which isnt somethign you want to do in a company these days).

    That said, she would have gone on strike as she's about as militant as Arthur Scargill. We're going to go to quiz on Tuesday night at the local as I've taken a day's leave. She's likely to actually go and protest somewhere or other though while I sleep off my hangover. She doesnt think its right to "strike" but then class it as a day off (though its unpaid).

    As Fab4 says, I personally dont agree with their complaint as I'm giving 15% of my salary to a pension that wont be as good as a public pension.... and I'll probably have to take it at 90! But that's me and if I had been promised something better and had accepted a possibly lower paid job for years as a consequence then I'd maybe think different.
  • Whizzo 28 Nov 2011 12:42:11 43,039 posts
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    I'm just hoping lots of staff go on strike on Wednesday so it'll be a fairly quiet day at the hospital. I doubt many people are actually going to bother though, I was fixing a PC in a seminar room that it was being discussed in a drop in basis and hardly anyone was showing up.

    None of the IT department, that I'm part of, are union members.

    This space left intentionally blank.

  • Tom_Servo 28 Nov 2011 12:45:49 17,330 posts
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    Seven million pages.
  • THFourteen 28 Nov 2011 12:52:01 32,904 posts
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    I think their point of view is more that they were promised x and now after working for y years, they are being given z.

    which i can kind of understand, but then where do people think all the money is going to come from? the country is totally under the cosh at the moment, everyone in the private sector are in fear for their jobs, let alone their pensions.
  • disusedgenius 28 Nov 2011 12:54:33 5,232 posts
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    Oh God, Oxford Street is going to be heaving on Wednesday!
  • elstoof 28 Nov 2011 12:54:48 6,674 posts
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    Contributions up to this point are safe though aren't they? So there's nothing lost apart from what was hoped to have been earned in future?
  • nickthegun 28 Nov 2011 12:59:42 58,948 posts
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    I appreciate that everyone has the right to protest, but my care cup is not one jot full for them.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

  • Dougs 28 Nov 2011 13:11:43 66,765 posts
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    THFourteen wrote:
    I think their point of view is more that they were promised x and now after working for y years, they are being given z.

    which i can kind of understand, but then where do people think all the money is going to come from? the country is totally under the cosh at the moment, everyone in the private sector are in fear for their jobs, let alone their pensions.
    It's more than that. The NAO have said the existing schemes are affordable, even now. Any increases won't go towards paying for the provisions, but to paying off the deficit certainly not caused by public sector workers. Contrary to most reporting, the average public sector pension is about 6k a year. Gold-plated, they're not. The figures are skewed by those at the top, who do a few years service, then move on, fully paid up. Alongside 600,000 people losing their jobs, with little to indicate the private sector can pick up the slack, it's a step too far.

    People are expected to pay more, work longer for less. I don't actually have a problem with paying more, but I would expect to get at least what I would now. I also think it's ludicrous to expect some workers to work into their late 60s. Fine for a desk jockey like me, but for a nurse or someone that needs some degree of strength, it's barmy and will lead to all manner of problems. Plus, they've changed to inflation indexation which wipes thousands off people's pensions.

    As for the comparisons with the private sector, the majority of public sector workers, especially the lower paid, chose a career in the public sector knowing their wages would be less than the private sector, but that was a trade off worth having when pensions and conditions were taken into account. I know there are reports that public sector salaries are higher, but that's the the case in my experience (and have had job offers in the past for more) and again is probably skewed by the top end. Plus the vast majority don't have comparable roles (such as teaching), for services that need delivering.

    They're my reasons for striking, and I don't expect to get much agreement (or want) really. But there you go.
  • Dougs 28 Nov 2011 13:20:32 66,765 posts
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    Did you miss the bit where I said it was a trade off? People won't bother if the conditions are shit though, and in the future might not consider it a trade off worth having.
  • THFourteen 28 Nov 2011 13:22:01 32,904 posts
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    I just can't see where they think the money is going to come from.

    Europe is fucked, there is no money to spare.

    Also sometimes its too easy to hold up your hands and say "none of this is our fault, its all the banks" but there are equivalent issues and inneficiences in the public sector which have been going on for years, that could have been addressed and saved money that way...
  • Dougs 28 Nov 2011 13:30:17 66,765 posts
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    Some might say the money has already been committed though. I'm also firmly of the opinion that the Government is using this as an excuse to implement their Conservative ideals.

    I agree there are def inefficiencies, certainly within central and local government. Biggest problem for me is tackling poor performance. It's a nightmare.
  • THFourteen 28 Nov 2011 13:33:37 32,904 posts
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    Dougs wrote:the Government is using this as an excuse to implement their Conservative ideals.
    Nowt wrong with that :-P
  • Dougs 28 Nov 2011 13:35:05 66,765 posts
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    I bet you have a folder of Thatcher porn at home! :-)
  • RunningMan 28 Nov 2011 13:35:54 2,386 posts
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    I do have sympathy with the union strike, but in terms of fairness the public sector pensions are amazing and pay is pretty comparable now between public and private. The private sector are not all bankers. I all for getting rid of bankers bonuses though.
  • Phily50 28 Nov 2011 13:36:10 2,199 posts
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    I'll be striking for the reasons outlined by Dougs. I'll also be picketing and marching through central London.
  • fergal_oc 28 Nov 2011 13:49:53 2,763 posts
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    I'm sick to death of the comparison between public and private sector pensions! That's like comparing super models and spiders against who's most effective for running the international space station.

    As Dougs has said, you know that if you go in to the public sector it is highly unlikely that you'll earn the same amount of money as someone in a comparable job in the private sector over the same length of employment. Even if salaries are similar, there's no bonus scheme or other reataed add-ons to salary in the public sector. This deficit is traded off with the pension given to the public sector workers.

    The excuses given for the changes are equally absurd. Yes people are living longer but that's nothing new, why didn't Thatcher or Major do anything about this in the last Tory government if it was going to be that much of a problem? The answer: because it was never and is not now a problem that warrants the changes to current pension schemes that the government is currently proposing.

    The wife is a teacher and will be striking on Wed even though it's not in her makeup to do so. She's somewhat forced to because although her school will be staying open (only the TA's are going to be there, which is another debate altogether) our children's schools will be closed. I work in the private sector and in either case IT IS A CHOICE!! Moaning minnies in the private sector complaining that they won't get a similar pension to comparable roles in the public sector made a choice to work where they do knowing full well the trade offs they were making by taking that job. STOP FUCKING COMPLAINING!!! If you don't like it you know what to do! Move to the public sector with well defined salary matrices and give up the ability to earn bonuses and negotiate your own salary based on your performance.
  • THFourteen 28 Nov 2011 13:52:14 32,904 posts
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    i wish people would stop comparing salaries in the private sector to the public sector.
  • MightyMouse 28 Nov 2011 14:00:48 1,127 posts
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    As for where the money to reduce the deficit could come from if not public sector pensions, well I'd suggest looking at the people who caused this mess and yet have barely been touched by it. Financial transaction tax (like they have in those socialist holes Hong Kong and Singapore) and higher capital gains tax for starters.
  • RunningMan 28 Nov 2011 14:04:11 2,386 posts
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    Most people in the private sector would love a bonus, we're not ll bankers earning performance related pay. Wasn't lord Hutton a labour peer? Not just a tory agenda.
  • disusedgenius 28 Nov 2011 14:04:41 5,232 posts
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    RunningMan wrote:
    Most people in the private sector would love a bonus.
    Best talk to your union then.
  • Deleted user 28 November 2011 14:06:21
    I keep reading about "low paid" public sector workers. Where? Seriously I have never seen a job advertised at minimum wage for the public sector. Anyone I know in the public sector is overpaid for their role compared to the private sector, and in many cases would never hold that role in the private sector. Several mates are teachers and complain about doing unpaid work....so not like any other job of any responsibility then?

    Labour knew public sector pensions were a time bomb....as they knew the economy was in ruins....and they did nothing for 12 years because they knew it would do nothing for them.

    Pension schemes are not supposed to give a GUARANTEED return, why should the public sector workers be any different? No one is saying they should get a crappy return, just that they should pay into it in line with their expectations of what they will get back in return. And that they should take that pension in line with others in similar roles outside the public sector. Anyone seriously want to argue someone sitting at a desk all day should retire earlier than someone stacking shelves at a supermarket because the desk sitter has a harder day?

    I realise that some public sector jobs need protection, but lets not pretend all of them do.

    Wednesday is just giving a load of people a good day to get Christmas shopping done at the expense of people who need those services that will be shut down. Anyone thinking they will get widespread support after it is nuts - the news is largely going to be full of footage of parents complaining, shops saying it has been busier, and various "service X was not available so this happened" sob stories.

    Wait and see if I am wrong :p
  • RunningMan 28 Nov 2011 14:07:12 2,386 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    RunningMan wrote:
    Most people in the private sector would love a bonus.
    Best talk to your union then.
    Bit hard to ask for a bonus when the company is barely solvent, happy to just have a job.
  • THFourteen 28 Nov 2011 14:07:53 32,904 posts
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    Yes they've barely been touched by the crisis at all. All my friends who are "bankers" ie they work in compliance and operations and IT and earn a reasonable wage and not a huge bonus at all have barely been touched by it, there haven't been 4-5 rounds of redundancies at most of their firms over the last 3 years, and they haven't had to pick up all the work of the people who have left, and they haven't had to spend months out of work looking for new jobs

    LETS TAX THE BANKS! SCREW THE BANKERS! EVERYONE WHO WORKS FOR A BANK IS A CUNT!

    As to "who caused it" i could argue that morons who borrowed too much money on their credit cards / mortgages / hire purchases are just as much to blame as the retail banks who took advantage.

    Lehman already paid the highest price for their fuck up, and no fuck up goes unscrutinized thesedays - just look at the issue at UBS a few months ago and their CEO being forced to resign.

    Just because from an outside perspective it seems like business as usual, don't make the mistake of thinking that the "banks" haven't done anything about it.

    You need to remain competetive even in the worst of times, especially in the worst of times.
  • Tom_Servo 28 Nov 2011 14:08:31 17,330 posts
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    http://mobile.twitter.com/bengoldacre/status/140426582677397505
  • disusedgenius 28 Nov 2011 14:08:54 5,232 posts
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    RunningMan wrote:
    Bit hard to ask for a bonus when the company is barely solvent, happy to just have a job.
    Probably not worth mentioning then.
  • nickthegun 28 Nov 2011 14:09:22 58,948 posts
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    For the vast majority of the country private and public salaries are broadly equal, that is if you can find a private inner city football liaison officer job.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    He totally called it

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