RIP Margaret Thatcher Page 17

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  • Bremenacht 17 Sep 2012 14:56:25 19,663 posts
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    thelzdking wrote:
    Owen Jones: not all socialists want to dance on Margaret Thatcher's grave. I want her to go on and on.

    This is the guy who wrote Chavs. Although a lot of the article is a straightforward explanation and justification of the left's hatred of Thatcher he makes some very good points.
    See, 'Thatcher's Legacy' and 'Thatcherism' are always assumed to be the same thing. I don't think they are. The assumption that she just wanted to destroy the working class seems ridiculous. The description of the post-war period as being somehow golden is equally ridiculous. Why not compare it to the post-war period for every other WW2-affected country in the world to see just how (not-so) good it really was?

    The only truly good government-created thing to come out of those 30 years was the NHS.
  • Bremenacht 17 Sep 2012 14:58:24 19,663 posts
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    Oh - new page.

    Best say right now:

    SHE'S STILL ALIVE


    to save a bit of page-turning.
  • mcmonkeyplc 17 Sep 2012 15:02:10 39,569 posts
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    Morgan Freeman is still alive too.

    Come and get it cumslingers!

  • Deleted user 17 September 2012 15:05:53
    So is Eddie Murphy.

    His career is less fortunate.
  • chopsen 17 Sep 2012 15:17:20 16,290 posts
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    lucky_jim wrote:
    Chopsen wrote:
    summat
    summat else.
    Cheers. I see what it's getting at now. As it's stated in the article, and as I keep seeing people mentioning it like that, I think it is a bit misleading though. What most people mean by "affordable housing" these days is property to buy, not to rent. I appreciate that the term doesn't really differentiate between that and rented, but that's the context affordability tends to get debated in these days.

    Either way, the property boom in the 90s under Labour, which saw property prices go up across the board, had more of an impact on what people pay now than anything Thatcher did. I once saw a chart [citation needed] showing how property prices had risen post war an indication of which party was in power at the time, and the rise during the mid-late 90s/early 2000's dwarves anything that occurred prior.

    It's also a bit more complicated than "Thatcher sold the council house", though, as there was a massive boom in property prices, and investment in that boom, way back throughout the 70s before Thatcher ever came to power or sold a single council house. From my understanding, there was a massive *demand* to buy properties because of the growth in value. I'm sure some people who were quite happy to rent were a bit miffed, but then you can't please all of the people all of the time.

    The cost of rental property, and the fact that state picks up the tab for social housing in that market, is a bit daft. That's been as a result of profiteering in the property market, and certainly selling council homes was a part of that phenomena. I don't think it's cause and effect though from what you say.

    Edited by Chopsen at 15:18:16 17-09-2012

    Edited by Chopsen at 15:30:56 17-09-2012
  • lucky_jim 17 Sep 2012 15:42:05 5,350 posts
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    @Chopsen
    Just for the sake of clarity, I don't see this as party political anymore. I think the origins of it were most definitely class-based (and therefore arguably party political), but it'd be quite absurd to argue that the Blair/ Brown years represented anything other than a continuation of Thatcherism.

    That's what depresses me most about English politics, the fact that whoever you vote for, you're voting for a different wing of effectively the same party. They all slavishly adhere to this neoliberal "private good, public bad" ideology with an almost religious zeal, even when (like Clegg) they stand for office on a diametrically opposed platform. If you don't believe that the private sector is automatically the best choice to do everything, if you don't think the profit motive automatically makes everything better, and if you think the state should be stepping in to provide things like decent school meals and good-quality care for old people who aren't rich, there's nobody to vote for (I briefly considered the Greens before being put off by their luddite anti-science nonsense).

    It's actually not a million miles away from how elections were in many former communist countries, like the one my mum came from. People are often surprised when I tell them a communist country had elections, but they did: just that all the candidates were from the same party, even though there was a whole lot of coded language to denote who was a reformist, who was old-school stalinist and all that. In one major way, what we've got is worse: people pretending to have differences between their parties when in reality they've all got far more in common with each other than with the rest of us, and they govern accordingly. At least in my mum's country of origin, the differences were real, but coded and hidden; in England, the differences aren't there and consequently it's the MASSIVE area of common ground which the parties share with each other that's resolutely ignored.
  • chopsen 17 Sep 2012 16:01:05 16,290 posts
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    Yup, I'd agree with all of that. Well, apart from having an ex-commie mum. Also toyed with voting Green but went off them for similar reasons.
  • senso-ji 21 Dec 2012 20:48:55 6,043 posts
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    Nothing can stop the Iron Lady
  • Spong 21 Dec 2012 21:36:53 525 posts
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    ^The picture in that report, as time goes on, she looks more and more like her Spitting Image puppet.
  • Razz 21 Dec 2012 21:46:24 61,656 posts
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    :D

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Steam/PSN/XBOX: Razztafarai | 3DS: 1246-9674-8856
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  • dsmx 21 Dec 2012 21:51:39 7,732 posts
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    Be interesting to see a comparison for all the puppets in spitting image to how the people they were based on look now.

    "If we hit that bullseye the rest of the dominoes will fall like a a house of cards, checkmate." Zapp Brannigan

  • jonsaan 21 Dec 2012 23:49:06 25,440 posts
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    Jagger looks like his one.

    FCUTA!

  • thelzdking 8 Apr 2013 12:49:29 4,413 posts
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    Sky News are saying that it's really happened this time!
  • Tom_Servo 8 Apr 2013 12:49:51 18,082 posts
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    Guy from the BBC who does the sports says it's coming through that Thatcher died from a stroke this morning. We've been down this road before though...
  • thelzdking 8 Apr 2013 12:50:08 4,413 posts
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    After a stroke, apparently.
  • Deleted user 8 April 2013 12:50:22
    BBC say so too.

    RIP. wonderful lady.
  • thelzdking 8 Apr 2013 12:51:06 4,413 posts
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    Her spokesman seems to be confirming it on Sky News now.
  • Dougs 8 Apr 2013 12:51:27 69,530 posts
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    The whole of the North rejoices
  • Deleted user 8 April 2013 12:51:42
    yeah he clearly distraught. Doesn't want to be doing it all.
  • Deleted user 8 April 2013 12:53:08
    fingers crossed tbh. Atrocious woman
  • PearOfAnguish 8 Apr 2013 12:54:22 7,500 posts
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    Let's have a party.
  • Khanivor 8 Apr 2013 12:55:52 41,267 posts
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    This thread is going to become even more beautiful.
  • Psychotext 8 Apr 2013 12:55:55 55,032 posts
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    Was just about to rant at someone for bumping this unnecessarily...

    I wonder if there are other leaders who will get this sort of treatment. I doubt it somehow.
  • THFourteen 8 Apr 2013 12:57:11 34,471 posts
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    RIP

    :-(
  • localnotail 8 Apr 2013 12:57:45 23,093 posts
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    I'm not feeling the joy I imagined I would. Just relief that I can finally relinquish the burden of hatred I've carried for most of my life.

    A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  • Gambit1977 8 Apr 2013 12:58:53 10,384 posts
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    localnotail wrote:
    I'm not feeling the joy I imagined I would. Just relief that I can finally relinquish the burden of hatred I've carried for most of my life.
    That's kinda how I feel...I thought I'd be really relieved. I grew up during the dismantling of the pits up North :-(
  • Tonka 8 Apr 2013 12:59:32 21,354 posts
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    Is there a crash course for outsiders like me that never really understood the deal with Thatcher and the hatred etc?

    If you can read this you really need to fiddle with your forum settings.

  • Gambit1977 8 Apr 2013 12:59:59 10,384 posts
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    Tonka wrote:
    Is there a crash course for outsiders like me that never really understood the deal with Thatcher and the hatred etc?
    Yeah, the non-ballet bits of Billy Elliot should do.
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