Xbox One Page 7

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  • Deleted user 5 January 2012 14:04:22
    altitude2k wrote:
    Who else thinks thinks this DVR patent is a really good move for MS?

    I said this in the news thread, but if they added a card slot and coax inputs to allow for Sky and Virgin TV input, as well other global cable suppliers such as AT&T, then Sky etc. would be able to offer the next Xbox as a premium alternative to a standard Sky+HD box. And you just know people would go for it considering the price to upgrade alongside a subscription would be reasonable next to purchasing it outright. Think phone contracts compared to SIM-free.

    It would offer an absolutely huge market penetration that a sole games console wouldn't. Whether you agree with it or not, the business benefits are undeniable.
    It is a good move. Its very much a sony ideal of having a console as your central home entertainment system.

    Having the contract with sky helps a lot, if sky owners could do what they do but with the N-XBOX, then it means one less thing in the living room. Having Kinect built in and controlling stuff through that would work as well. Problem for sony was they had this play thing with freeview, but yet again, it was announced, and then you heard nothing from it.

    Problem is for MSOFT, is that they lost the Movie side of it, i don't know what steps they would have to go through to get blu ray, but sony were quite clever in stamping that feature down. Its nicely poised though from a consumer standpoint.
  • ronuds 5 Jan 2012 14:36:27 21,788 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:
    There is some supreme irony here, in that as PC O/S' are becoming more slick and hassle-free, consoles appear to be going the way of old PCs - patches and updates for everything.
    That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Ev-er! For one, every console game that's on PC gets pretty much the same patches. Number B, PC games typically have even more patches because developers don't have to jump through the same hurdles they do with MS and Sony... and they have to deal with a billion different graphics cards working properly, which they inevitably do not.

    Whilst the need to patch on console tis rather annoying, at least with the 360 you typically don't have to wait more than a few seconds. MS needs to keep these kinds of policies with the nextbox, because I'll be hot damned if I'm waiting an hour and a half like PT said.
  • altitude2k 5 Jan 2012 15:28:07 3,663 posts
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    I think Microsoft has done a good job with updates on the 360. The PS3 is a lot worse by comparison. Updates are regular and far too lengthy, whereas on the 360, as you say, they only take a few seconds. Mandatory installs on the PS3 are also something that makes it too similar to PC gaming, but that's par for the course with high capacity optical media. Hopefully the next Xbox will stick to solid state game delivery so as to avoid mandatory installs.
  • Deleted user 5 January 2012 15:46:41
    Is that a good thing?
  • Retroid Moderator 5 Jan 2012 16:42:34 44,503 posts
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    joelstinton wrote:
    Problem is for MSOFT, is that they lost the Movie side of it, i don't know what steps they would have to go through to get blu ray, but sony were quite clever in stamping that feature down. Its nicely poised though from a consumer standpoint.
    Umm, blu-ray is a standard and Sony are just part of the consortium. They don't own it and there's no reason MS would be prevented from using BR for their next machine. MS video codecs are even standards available for use on BR.
  • Khanivor 5 Jan 2012 17:40:04 40,294 posts
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    I hope they don't use BR. Prefer they stuck a wanging big HD in the machine, put games on DVD and they always has to be fully installed.
  • crashVoodoo 5 Jan 2012 17:42:27 3,846 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    I hope they don't use BR. Prefer they stuck a wanging big HD in the machine, put games on DVD and they always has to be fully installed.
    So, a PC then ?

    a Nexus a day keeps the apple away

  • CosmicFuzz 5 Jan 2012 17:42:50 22,908 posts
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    I thought BD was Sony technology?

    My game of E3? Rainbow 6! Find out why...

  • DodgyPast 5 Jan 2012 17:43:38 8,394 posts
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    ronuds wrote:
    Bremenacht wrote:
    There is some supreme irony here, in that as PC O/S' are becoming more slick and hassle-free, consoles appear to be going the way of old PCs - patches and updates for everything.
    That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Ev-er! For one, every console game that's on PC gets pretty much the same patches. Number B, PC games typically have even more patches because developers don't have to jump through the same hurdles they do with MS and Sony... and they have to deal with a billion different graphics cards working properly, which they inevitably do not.

    Whilst the need to patch on console tis rather annoying, at least with the 360 you typically don't have to wait more than a few seconds. MS needs to keep these kinds of policies with the nextbox, because I'll be hot damned if I'm waiting an hour and a half like PT said.
    While fiddling with settings and patches can be a pain it's also why a lot of PC gamers like steam so much. It sits there in the background keeping your games up to date. By the time they've been out for a while they'll work solidly without needing cutting edge drivers assuming they've been released by a decent developer.
  • Deleted user 5 January 2012 17:49:25
    CosmicFuzz wrote:
    I thought BD was Sony technology?
    They're part of a huge collaboration of companies who invested technology in it. As has been said MS are also one of the companies.

    Edited by Boab at 17:49:48 05-01-2012
  • Retroid Moderator 5 Jan 2012 18:02:58 44,503 posts
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    Origins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Origins

    Who 'runs' Blu-Ray: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

    /Lazy links
  • Bremenacht 5 Jan 2012 19:56:04 17,350 posts
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    DodgyPast wrote:
    ronuds wrote:
    Bremenacht wrote:
    There is some supreme irony here, in that as PC O/S' are becoming more slick and hassle-free, consoles appear to be going the way of old PCs - patches and updates for everything.
    That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Ev-er! For one, every console game that's on PC gets pretty much the same patches. Number B, PC games typically have even more patches because developers don't have to jump through the same hurdles they do with MS and Sony... and they have to deal with a billion different graphics cards working properly, which they inevitably do not.

    Whilst the need to patch on console tis rather annoying, at least with the 360 you typically don't have to wait more than a few seconds. MS needs to keep these kinds of policies with the nextbox, because I'll be hot damned if I'm waiting an hour and a half like PT said.
    While fiddling with settings and patches can be a pain it's also why a lot of PC gamers like steam so much. It sits there in the background keeping your games up to date. By the time they've been out for a while they'll work solidly without needing cutting edge drivers assuming they've been released by a decent developer.
    Absolutely. What I wrote may sound ridiculous to you ronuds, but on a PC you can schedule your patches and updates for a convenient time, or run them in the background while you game. On console, you have to sit and wait. System patch? Zzz. Game patch? Zzzz. As someone else said, turning on your console to play a game should be a case of 1. Turn on console, then 2. Play game. Not all this download & install update->load interface->enjoy product placement->start game->download & install patch crap. On top of that, I can close my laptop lid and it 'sleeps'. You cannot do that on PS3 or 360. Even the friggin' Wii is better sorted in that regard! I shouldn't be surprised really - Nintendo seem to remember that console gaming should be a simple experience.

    I can open my laptop lid, and start playing a game off Steam far faster than I can on a 360 or PS3. That just shouldn't be the case. Hence my original post. (Admittedly, an SSD speeds things up nicely, but I'll guess that even with a normal laptop HDD it'd be faster than a console)
  • ronuds 5 Jan 2012 20:04:05 21,788 posts
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    Playing a game on 360 is little more than steps 1 and 2. You turn the game on. It immediately recognizes you aren't running the latest version, updates to the latest in mere (and literally) seconds, and you're ready to play. I'm not sure where you're finding time to sleep while this is happening. I guess if 5 seconds of sleep does it for you, have at it. Plus, if you don't want the update, you simply decline it.

    System updates obviously take longer, but I don't hear anyone complaining about getting a fairly brand new interface every year or so. Does the PC give you free, brand new interfaces? Let me answer that for you: No, it does not. :p

    So, yes, the statement was and still is ridiculous... in regards to the 360, anyway.

    Edited by ronuds at 20:06:53 05-01-2012
  • Bremenacht 5 Jan 2012 20:06:21 17,350 posts
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    YOUR RIDICULOUS AND SOES YOUR 360
  • ronuds 5 Jan 2012 20:08:56 21,788 posts
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    YOU'RE ARE! :D
  • oceanmotion 5 Jan 2012 20:57:00 15,610 posts
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    I wonder if they are going to stick to one dashboard design philosophy next time as Windows and WP7 and 360 all look kinda similar with the Metro look. The Xbox did add new services, avatars, more ads, recent TV stuff so you could argue it was needed but now everything is out there they shouldn't really be making major changes like the three designs of the 360 dashboard. If they can't get it right after all this time what hope is there.

    I hope they improve it and listen to feedback more. It's not great as it is. I hope apps actually launch instantly. The hardware is old but it can't be creeking that much to launch a separate app. Things need to more seamless.
  • ronuds 5 Jan 2012 21:01:37 21,788 posts
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    Nah, I suspect the dash will continue to change and evolve (or devolve, if you fancy). MS will keep adding/subtracting things as they sign new deals and create new crap, which will lead to more overhauls. They'll never "get it right," if having one version until the end of time is your definition of that.
  • oceanmotion 5 Jan 2012 21:44:59 15,610 posts
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    What else could they possibly add now. Books or something. A weather tile. 3D ads. oh I know, Avatar pets, easy money. Yeah, your right, they will find stuff that adds amazing value which is found free on every other platform known to man.
  • Khanivor 5 Jan 2012 21:53:01 40,294 posts
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    I wouldn't be surprised if the next dash stays the same. It will evolve a little more, but the Metro look is going to be around for a while and most likely consistent across all MS products.
  • Ryze 6 Jan 2012 04:40:03 3,118 posts
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    Bremenacht wrote:

    Absolutely. What I wrote may sound ridiculous to you ronuds, but on a PC you can schedule your patches and updates for a convenient time, or run them in the background while you game. On console, you have to sit and wait. System patch? Zzz. Game patch? Zzzz. As someone else said, turning on your console to play a game should be a case of 1. Turn on console, then 2. Play game. Not all this download & install update->load interface->enjoy product placement->start game->download & install patch crap. On top of that, I can close my laptop lid and it 'sleeps'. You cannot do that on PS3 or 360. Even the friggin' Wii is better sorted in that regard! I shouldn't be surprised really - Nintendo seem to remember that console gaming should be a simple experience.

    I can open my laptop lid, and start playing a game off Steam far faster than I can on a 360 or PS3. That just shouldn't be the case. Hence my original post. (Admittedly, an SSD speeds things up nicely, but I'll guess that even with a normal laptop HDD it'd be faster than a console)
    You're actually spot on here, and as people speculate that there's nothing much to offer in the next generation, this sort of description of the console vs. PC gaming experience proves them wrong.

    I'm another person who wants to press a button and be gaming within seconds, like I could do both when visiting an Arcade in the 80s/90s, or when turning on a Mega Drive. The key to this, is in well designed operating systems, sufficient RAM and flash memory caches to supplement any large hard drives, and adequate patching RULES such as the 360's patch size limit. The PS3 is the obvious console offender here, as Sony have typically fallen on their faces in terms of software and OS. One only needs to own and use a PS3 without being an apologist in order to understand what a mess they've made with patching, installing, downloading and updating anything on the console. There's no good reason why the next consoles can't improve here massively. They need to have a decent sized, upgradeable flash cache that's at least twice as large as the main memory, and as fast as is affordable. The idea would be that the most frequently & recently loaded files from the most frequently and recently loaded games (and apps) would sit in the cache after their first time being loaded, and would download directly to the cache for quick launching once completed.

    Transfers between RAM, cache and HDD/optical disc should be masked as far as possible, and we'd end up with a situation akin to running a fast laptop with an SSD.

    Whilst playing a game, if the game can specify that it wants a runtime cache of (for example) 8GB, then it can preload data from the DVD/BD or HDD to the cache, and stream/page data back and forth very quickly during gameplay to mask or eliminate loading times. Certain files would behave similarly to the PS3s HDD installs, and would remain sat on the flash cache for as long as there is room to spare, meaning that if the same game is loaded up again, then much of it would be accessed directly from the flash storage/memory. Most of us only play 1-3 games at a time, with the same game data being loaded from optical media and HDDs time and time again, wearing them both out, and resulting in loading delays. This hardware config would give a 'cartridge-like' experience, despite retaining the cost/capacity benefits of optical media and large, cheap, OPTIONAL or premium-model only HDDs. In addition, the background downloading of patches, pre-fetching of popular updates and DLC by the OS (it 'knows' that you own a game, as you're loading it up regularly and it'd be sat in the cache), would improve the user experience, and return the 'immediacy' of console gaming.

    In addition, MS have only just delivered a 'rich' interface for browsing our collection of HDD-based games. This has taken much too long, and there's still a way to go in refining this experience. I think they've taken a step back in that we can't filter them to only show XBLA, demos, recent disc based games, remove XBLA trials, etc.

    I'd also like to see the ability to view the number of people playing the games' online modes, and to jump straight from the dash into an online lobby, or even create/host a lobby from the dash, and play another game (or the single player mode ala SFIV) while waiting for interested players to turn up. For example, I could request an online session (host a lobby) for my niche game of choice as soon as I boot the console, specifying that I'm after a minimum of 'x' players. I can check if there are other players online (quality players in connection terms) without having to load the game up and search for / host games. I then proceed to do whatever I want to with the console, such as play another game, browse the store, watch TV, play music, chat to friends etc, and I get a notification when my game and its players are ready, or someone makes a request that matches my own. Due to the nature of my recent behaviour on the 'dashboard', the console OS has already pre-cached my game in flash, or even pre-loaded much of it into RAM (as I'd wish for 8GB RAM in the next gen of consoles - much more than is needed for most non AAA gaming activities). It's a little like what 'beacons' is trying to do on the 360, except that beacons is obviously unfinished and looks broken to and useless to me. Nice gesture though.

    The next features involve sleep, suspend and resume. The console should be able to sleep/hibernate at any point while in use (like a PSP), and allow us to stop playing without any menu faff involving save slots and checkpoints. Resuming from sleep should take 1 second, unless it's been left so long that power saving settings have pushed the data into flash (and / or HDD) and powered everything down. Even so, resuming to the exact same spot should be possible regardless of time spent in sleep mode, or power being disconnected. This should be possible when switching games. I should be able to suspend a game at any point (unless I'm playing an online session, obviously), and switch to (or resume) another game. Again, the use of a flash cache, and an HDD if I have it installed, will mean that this can take place quickly, and that data can be moved back and forward from RAM to flash to HDD without me having to know or think about it.

    I'd love these features, as it'd mean that I could request an online session on a quick, arcadey driving game, and have quick blasts on it in between playing a long epic action-adventure or RPG game. It could be the same for TV series, etc. I can watch a season marathon session on a Sunday, but with occasional interruptions while I have fighting game matches, or driving races with very specific restrictions or options set, without having to leave the console sat on an empty lobby screen.

    This, plus 1080p/60fps with AA - cheers.

    /blog!

    Edited by Ryze at 17:29:50 14-03-2012
  • Ryze 6 Jan 2012 04:54:15 3,118 posts
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    CrispyXUK wrote:
    Boab wrote:
    Dosen't Microsoft actually actually own one of the widely used BD codecs?
    YES - VC-1 / WMV9
    Fixed.
  • ronuds 6 Jan 2012 14:12:23 21,788 posts
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    Khanivor wrote:
    I wouldn't be surprised if the next dash stays the same. It will evolve a little more, but the Metro look is going to be around for a while and most likely consistent across all MS products.
    Think looong term. I thought the "blades" would have stayed from the beginning of this gen, but that seems like forever ago now. I'd be amazed if I'm still staring at the same dash 5+ years from now.

    @ oceanmotion - who knows what else they can add. Who would have guessed we'd be watching NetFlix or whatever on our consoles when this generation started? You guys need to think beyond tomorrow!

    Edited by ronuds at 14:12:56 06-01-2012
  • Deleted user 6 January 2012 14:22:31
    Ryze wrote:
    CrispyXUK wrote:
    Boab wrote:
    Dosen't Microsoft actually actually own one of the widely used BD codecs?
    YES - VC-1 / WMV9
    Fixed.
    The original spec, yes, but not as we know it today, in no way do they 'own' that, would be like saying apple 'own' h.264
  • Madder-Max 6 Jan 2012 14:30:15 11,612 posts
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    if everyhting is on one box, what happens when that box breaks? You lose all entertainment.

    This is the equivalent of the old, cassette, radio and TV in one units back in the 80's

    99 problems and being ginger is one

  • Pac-man-ate-my-wife 6 Jan 2012 14:33:43 7,002 posts
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    Ryze wrote:
    The console should be able to sleep/hibernate at any point while in use (like a PSP), and allow us to stop playing without any menu faff involving save slots and checkpoints. Resuming from sleep should take 1 second, unless it's been left so long that power saving settings have pushed the data into flash (and / or HDD) and powered everything down. Even so, resuming to the exact same spot should be possible regardless of time spent in sleep mode, or power being disconnected.
    No, no, no!

    The "hold on dear, I just need to find a save point" excuse is one of the prime ways I can squeeze another half hour out of my limited gaming time - I used that lots on Deus Ex recently, even though I could save anywhere...

    ;)
  • Pac-man-ate-my-wife 6 Jan 2012 14:34:38 7,002 posts
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    Madder-Max wrote:
    if everyhting is on one box, what happens when that box breaks? You lose all entertainment.

    This is the equivalent of the old, cassette, radio and TV in one units back in the 80's
    That's the "the cloud" is for.
  • mrpon 6 Jan 2012 14:35:09 28,305 posts
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    Ha ha spot on! (save point)

    Edited by mrpon at 14:35:34 06-01-2012

    Give yourself 5 or gig, you're worth it.

  • Madder-Max 6 Jan 2012 14:52:31 11,612 posts
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    the 'NextBox'

    99 problems and being ginger is one

  • Madder-Max 6 Jan 2012 14:53:17 11,612 posts
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    Pac-man-ate-my-wife wrote:
    Madder-Max wrote:
    if everyhting is on one box, what happens when that box breaks? You lose all entertainment.

    This is the equivalent of the old, cassette, radio and TV in one units back in the 80's
    That's the "the cloud" is for.
    For saving yeah but how do you watch TV though if the box is broke

    99 problems and being ginger is one

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